coleio

In Amsterdam it seems to be ban for ALL internal combustion engines not targeting diesel but as the ring road is a meters away from where I live this will ignores the sprawl of suburbs so it really only covers part of the place.

wellinever

It gets better !!
For example a diesel vehicle registered between 1997 and 2007 (June) with an engine of between 2000cc and 3000cc (so pretty big) the road tax would be €67.00
and if bigger than 3000cc then it goes to €171
They are not interested and do not ask about CO2 !!
Clearly all political they know exactly how many cars, their age and their fuel are on Portuguese roads.

liveaboard

The CO2 numbers are fictitious; how much is emitted per year is related to the vehicle particulars of course, but equally to the amount driven, and how it's driven.
If CO2 is the primary concern, the answer is simple; don't tax the vehicle, tax the fuel. A given quantity of a given hydrocarbon fuel will result in a given amount of CO2 emissions.

Older vehicles are taxed less because poor people drive older vehicles; the CO2 based tax is a load of confusion spread over the top of older policies to make them look like new ones.

Not that I disagree with that. You have to start somewhere.

liveaboard

It's a brave start; the inner city is choked with cars and their fumes. The sprawling suburbs [like the Algarve] account for a lot of emissions to the planet as a whole, but that needs to be addressed on a wider level; EU at least.

Riding my bicycle through Amsterdam, I realized that if there were no private cars it would be much safer, easier, and healthier for all pedestrians and cyclists. Those close streets weren't designed to cope with that traffic, and a large portion is blocked from pubic use due to parking. Children are not safe in the streets, 95% because of cars.

The physical presence is bad enough, but we have to breath their fumes too?
Why?
I'm not there often, and when I am there I need to work hard, fast, and physical. The emission ban is a big inconvenience to me, and will cost me a lot too.

And I agree with it.

I have 2 cars, 2 motorized boats, petrol powered garden tools, and big stinking tractor. A general fuel ban would be terrible for me.

And I don't expect that will happen, but I'd agree with it too.

Red Eric

Quite.

It's like with alterations to a lot of things - you don't insist that what already exists complies with the new rules. Building regs, for example.

Of course it can be made to look contradictory if you really try but in fact it's the most logical and fairest way of introducing such change. Over time the supposed inconsistency becomes irrelevant - who would seriously consider buying a pre-2007 vehicle now simply to keep the annual tax down when they would likely be spending far more on extra fuel and repairs than they saved in tax?

TonyJ1

Cannot add really that much to current fuel taxes - these taxes are already extortionate in Portugal (probably more than 3/4 of the retail price of fuel),and if taken as a % of relative income, probably one of the highest in Europe. The art of taxation is to get a lit bit from as many sources as possible - I think that this was the conclusion of the finance minister for Louis the XIV (XV?) - most finance ministers have taken this to heart. They do no care about tax collection efficiency, etc. Once a tax has been introduced, almost never is it done away with - might be painted with different colours etc, but does not disappear.

Red Eric

I was asking about post 2007, but never mind.

It should be clear enough why pre 2007 vehicles are taxed differently by now.

wellinever

OK, So a 2009, 1.9 diesel engine car, with 200gm CO2 will cost € 381.00pa
" 1.9 petrol " " " " " € 361.00pa
It is clear that newer diesel powered cars are taxed more than equivalent petrol equivalent, but no by a lot.
But with such a difference in cost in fuel, the the high mileage users will continue to buy diesel. €20 a year saving in road tax will make no difference, and therefore in 20 years time these highly polluting engines will still be running.
Taxing fuel used, as mentioned is the sensible way to collect a vehicle tax.