Pistolpete2

I'm concerned that if we crash out of the EU it will severely impact any plans we had to spend fairly significant time in Portugal. This being the case, we might have to take the big leap to try and secure PT residence before Brexit day 2019.

I'm back and forth on the centre of life from late 2019 onwards (between Portugal and the Caribbean) and think that setting up in PT right away after leaving the UK might be best in terms of winding up our affairs in the UK and moving to somewhere which offers more long-term stability.

There is potential for us getting a long lease on a PT property from October 2019. If I hightail it to Portugal in early February 2019 and get NHR details discussed and 'sorted' and we then spend time in the self-same property in early March 2019, is it in any way feasible to show a written lease on the property from September or October 2019 as the basis for obtaining residency pre-Brexit day 29th March?

Ukkram

The implementation period starts on 30 March 2019 and ends 31 December 2020. During this period there will be no change to "freedom of movement" between the EU and UK.
So you have until end of 2020 to get residency in PT.

Pistolpete2

That is what I HAD been working to but:

It's my understanding that the terms of the implementation period - in spite of being agreed - are to be laid out within the withdrawal agreement which has to go before parliament and at this point we simply don't know how parliament will vote if only due to underlying political motivations.

So potentially it could all be thrown out and unless somebody gains power to somehow stop this thing and start Brexit negotiations from scratch we simply leave with everything up in the air and resultant chaos.

That said, the UK has made a commitment regarding EU citizens here but I'm not sure it's the same the other way around.

mikelincs

Not true, if we crash out with no deal there will be NO transition period, it will all grind to a halt in March 2019.

Pistolpete2

No! It totally depends upon whether any deal gets through parliament. Labour could defeat it simply to (try to) get an election. Brexiteers could defeat it because it sucks. Hence my OP.

mikelincs

If a deal is agreed ten I suspect that the Tory rebels will NOT vote against it in Parliament as they will realise that a general election will mean they get kicked out of power, they will get it through and then get rid of Theresa May.

Pistolpete2

I agree but we are now nowhere near a deal, hence my OP. I believe my concerns are valid and I don't want to debate whether we are going to crash out of the EU or get a deal, I simply want to plan and there is a lot to do.

Ukkram

I see that the Labour party with the trade unions are to push for a new referendum this coming week. Small chance of this happening in my view.
What would happen if no deal is reached? Will everything stay in status quo?

Pistolpete2

BritInParis

That would seem unlikely. You’d need a lease dated in the past, not the future. In any case your residence rights derived from EU citizenship would cease on 29 March and you’d be at the mercy of whatever the Portuguese decide to do with their resident Brits.

Pistolpete2

Indeed! I am attempting to demonstrate the intent to be in Portugal in early March 2019 specifically with a view to taking up permanent residency there as shown by the lease within six months.

It seems?? from previous posters on here that the tax people in Portugal would attempt to get their claws into you if you did something similar (counting the six months from when you first arrived) so I'm testing it for residence rather than tax residence.

BritInParis

I may be missing your point but I can’t see any advantage in arriving six weeks before Brexit Day if your legal right to remain in Portugal will then cease. If your lease starts in October 2019 then I would move then. Either you’ll have the transition period to sort yourself out (and then a reciprocal arrangement regarding the grandfathered rights of existing residents) or you’ll have six months or so to work out what you will need to do as a third country national to live there before taking the plunge.

mfesharne

Assuming the OP has a UK passport & I'm sure that must be the case, a lease isn't a requirement for residency at all because until Brexit, residency is a right not a privilege & incidentally one needs to be a registered resident to get NHR registration.

The process is:As you have a passport from an EU member state, you have the right to enter & reside.

Once here, you need to go to a Fiscal Office (usually in the Camara/Town Hall) and get a Fiscal number/document & to do that you need to provide your passport, some kind of ID to show your address & a few Euros........ this should take about 20 minutes.

After you've been here 3 months & before 4 months, (it can be before 3 months if you wish) you go to your local Camara & register your residency status with them. This document is called a Residencia & is valid for 5 years. You need to provide your passport, Fiscal Document (AKA NIF) address in Portugal & a few Euros.

Then you go to your local Junta/Council & get your Attestado and for that you need passport, NIF & Residencia.NOTE: Some Camaras require the applicant to get their Attestado before they’ll issue the Residencia but the Attestado attests that you are a resident & if you’re not yet resident how can it attest to that? However the easy answer to that is just to go with the flow & give them what they want. - If the person issuing the Attestado refuses to issue it before you have the Residencia just have one call the other & sort it out amongst themselves.

As Portuguese NHS entitlement is now SOLELY based on residency, you're then entitled to register with a Doctor & get the same care as any Portuguese person.

Now the variables........ Portugal sometimes suffers from variable bureaucracy where individual civil servants misinterpret the rules.

A couple of examples are some Doctor's surgeries ask you to provide a social security number before you can register but this is no longer required.......... but if you're going to work, you need one anyway so easier to go with the flow & just get one from the SS office.

If your not going to work then just tell the person at the Doctor's office to call the SS office & let them sort it out between them.

Some Camaras (notably Penela) try to ask EU passport holders (sic) to provide proof of income or financial security but this should only apply to non EU passports & they have no right to ask for that.Some EU legislation does suggest that holders of EU member state passports do need 'sufficient funds' to gain residency but I can find no mention of having to actually prove 'sufficient funds' or what amount of funds is sufficient therefore assume that if the individual says he/she has sufficient funds then the funds they say they have are sufficient.


Right to reside EU PPT holders & partnershttp://www.sef.pt/portal/v10/en/aspx...&id_Linha=4351UK entitlement to PT NHS with/without SS number

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/living-in-portugalHow to register on the PT NHS in Portuguese & Englishhttps://www.ers.pt/pages/438?news_id=1203If you need to complain about not getting registered on the PT NHS system: https://www.ers.pt/pages/356

Pilou

At the end of our 2/3 months period, we registered as residents. The camara did not ask for any proof of income, but we gave them a copy of the purchase of a house. That was then immediately fine with them. A couple days later we could take our official resident document.

How long will you stay as of early March 2019? Where are you between early March and October 2019?
If you will only be in Portugal in March and you come back in October when your lease contract starts, the camara will tell you to come back in October or November.

Shanorme

My take on it and I might be wrong; if a deal is agreed, it would hopefully include the the citizenship rights that were discussed. If we crash out with no deal, I would 'assume' that would mean that all bets are off and that any residency rights would need to be re-negotiated.

Is there any chance of you pursuing the Golden Visa route?