sir recorder

Pray, what the Dickens does "Affordability" mean?

Does it means the home is valued at its market rate?

Does it mean that the house is only "affordable" by those

- On minimum wage?
- By underpaid professionals, like teachers and nurses?
- By grossly overpaid "professionals", like dentists and lawyers?

Who can afford to buy these properties?

Maybe ex-bank managers are the only ones who can afford them.

MikeJ

Sorry to be a pedant but surely if you have to find a deposit of 10/15% then it's an 85/90% mortgage, or is this calculated using New Maths - of which I have no understanding?

EMR

Affordability is simply your ability too pay the mortage for its term.
Applicant supply ( as in the UK ) a breakdown of all their spending.
Unlike in the past when it was based on earnings and not disposable income.
The mortgageble vale of a property is not directly linked to sales price it is the banks assesement of risk. and will it get its money back.
Pick holes if you want but the important fact is that mortgages are now available.

sir recorder

With that programme in place far fewer mortgages will now be available than ever before, and this will have the effect of totally depressing the market.

Dare I say this is no less than what they have done in Florida where the holiday/retirement home market has totally collapsed, and is at an all time low, and unlikely to rise for a generation.

So, be honest, is Portugal the European Florida?

EMR

SR your lack of knoweldge of Portugal is unbelieveable.

Until last year mortgages were almost impossible to get as the banks were under severe contraints to balance the books.
The ability to obtain mortgages NOW even if not on the previous levels is a boost for the property market.
Banco Espirito Santo, Banco Popular and others all have funds available for new property loans.
Again you demonstrate lack of knowledge regarding Florida where property prices have risen as they have in much of the US as its economy slowly recovers.
Stop reading newspapers fron 2011 it is now 2013.

Mitzyboy

Cognitive Therapy






and quickly

Benny Dorm

"Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist ought to have his head examined."
-- Samuel Goldwyn --

Ash Jez

I read many threads and I have to agree with the comments over sir recorder. Does he never give up on the doom and gloom. I really do have to say that the new comer to a forum such as this, really would think that Portugal has no future and his comments do the country no good what-so-ever. The whole of Europe has its problems at this time, not just Portugal. Property sales are rubbish in so many countries and not just Portugal as SR implies. I noted above he says there. That implies he is not in Portugal and probably has little real idea what is even going on. What is with with SR, did he/she get a clip around the ear from a Portuguese as a kid.

I think Portugal is beautiful as are the people. The country as is the case with many has its problems now but it has much to offer now and in the future. If someone has chosen to reside in a country other than their own, they should show some respect for that county and try their best to support it and not consider it as a door mat.

sir recorder

I am sorry but the doom and gloom I speak of in PT is very real. Property prices in PT have crashed through the floor. There is no light at the end of the tunnel for this as far as I can see. PT's economic future is pretty nigh well doomed if its government continues much longer with its disastrous austerity programme. That austerity is seriously destroying morale. People are leaving the country.

Further, I personally do not subscribe to your attitude that one should accept and respect a country just because one is an outsider and has no right, as you see it, to comment on what is painfully and obviously wrong. PT is badly managed. Even if a similar disaster is happening all over Europe, that does not stop my right to comment on what I see is wrong here. As I see it I was invited to come to Portugal and make a huge investment in a holiday property, and from my point of view PT has done just about everything wrong since then to assist me to maintain the value of that investment.

Ash Jez

SR. Does it matter if your property has dropped in value? My own has by perhaps 100K. Do I care? No, not a hoot as should I wish to sell and purchase something else, that too has depreciated in value. I personally think it's great that values have fallen as it would have been impossible for things to have continued as they were. Ask yourself, how could the first time buyer ever be able to purchase, and without them, eventually, the whole property purchase chain collapses. Now as prices have dropped, it become much more possible for people young and middle aged to be able to take the next step.

SR. You do have a right to make your point of view. But, from what I see, it is all doom and gloom in your eyes. See some good also, and you will feel better in yourself and not get the backs of other up so often.

sir recorder

First time buyers? There aren't any first time buyers left in Portugal. They are all going abroad to find work elsewhere in lands far overseas. They are abandoning PT in their thousands. No one in PT is going to lend money any more to the unemployed who stay behind at home. This is the vicious circle of austerity. Not for generations will the damage that is being done will matters recover. In my view, they may never recover. The rest of the world is fast leaving PT and Europe way way behind.

You can choose the attitude "I am all right Jack", as you probably live in a house with its mortgage all fully paid up, not having to worry anymore what is happening around you. You can be apathetic to all "the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune" (or the lack of it). But don't come running to me or anyone else when your investment ends up worthless, complaining that you no longer have the money or wealth left to pay your way in, say, a nursing home when you may need it. If you run out of money, don't expect to be repatriated back to UK, if that is where you came from, at my expense.

When I bought a holiday home in Portugal, I invested one third of my total value and wealth in it. By doing this I became a large stakeholder in the Portuguese economy. I have no proper democratic say in how the country is run. I cannot vote in their elections. But I will have my say on a forum such as this. I will voice my opinion.

Ergo, it matters!

EMR

SR cannot accept that he/she is responsible for the decisions he/she make in life and is one of those people who are always looking for someone else to blame. Putting it simply I bet you saw a chance of making a quick profit and fell for the sales pitch ( were they English ). You bought for the wrong reasons, it was a gamble and has not paid off and you are partly responsible for that.
To keep your sanity life is about making the best of what lif is not contstantly looking back at what once was.

EMR

You are also right about the problems first time buyers have , in POrtugal, the UK, France Spain, Italy, in fact anywhere in the western world.

bejaboz

[QUOTE=sir recorder;10581280]I am sorry but the doom and gloom I speak of in PT is very real. Property prices in PT have crashed through the floor. There is no light at the end of the tunnel for this as far as I can see. PT's economic future is pretty nigh well doomed if its government continues much longer with its disastrous austerity programme. That austerity is seriously destroying morale. People are leaving the country.

Further, I personally do not subscribe to your attitude that one should accept and respect a country just because one is an outsider and has no right, as you see it, to comment on what is painfully and obviously wrong. PT is badly managed. Even if a similar disaster is happening all over Europe, that does not stop my right to comment on what I see is wrong here. As I see it I was invited to come to Portugal and make a huge investment in a holiday property, and from my point of view PT has done just about everything wrong since then to assist me to maintain the value of that investment.[/QUOTE]

SR the reason for your bile towards PT is now apparent, and I'm sorry that your investment has not proved to be as rewarding as you expected and hoped it would be. But for any investment, it's always buyer beware and that investments go down as well as up.

We bought in 2007 and the price we paid seemed good value then, but of course, it's worth significantly less at today's prices. I see, the same as yourself, the governmental issues of poor managment and seemingly corruption at the highest level, but I don't see any merit in being despondent about something I am unable to have any impact on. We just enjoy our time when we visit, accept that in our lifetime we will not see property values reach anything approaching a realistic level and hope our children and grandchildren continue enjoy it in the future. I'm past retirement age and continue to work at a job I enjoy doing, so I'm fortunate in that respect.

Being bitter about something that was your own decision, which unfortunately has been affected by world economic events that very few predicted, adds no value to your life, and anyway, about which as a member of Joe Public cannot really influence, even if you had a vote.

In my opinion, PT has an unsophisticated charm of its own, (outside of the Algarve), compared to Spain or Italy which was what attracted us originally. Unfortunately, the timing was bad, but we didn't know that then. We have to make the best of the situation and see what the future brings.

Benny Dorm

SR appears to be a person who nurtures a consistently negative attitude, expecting the worst of people and of situations. His outlook persists regardless of facts or circumstances that might indicate a more balanced or positive reality. He or she relates to the “half empty glass,” ignoring the fact that the glass is also half full. Sadly, this type of person typically believes that the world is quite bad and is growing bleaker all the time