HeleneM

We have bought half of a field here in Portugal and now wish to put up a fence to demarcate our section. Can anyone advise how to go about this? We don't know who owns the adjoining plot. Thanks for any input.

Rambling archer

Most important thing is to find your little concrete posts which officially demarcate your plot - usually at each corner of the plot, or where it deviates from a straight line. The boundary should be marked on your plan of the property as bought - if you haven't got one you can get it from the Land Registry Dept. As far as I know you have every right to put up a fence along (or just inside on your side) the line of the boundary markers. There may be planning laws locally about what sort of fence/wall, height/materials used, etc.

Is it that the other half field (which is now your neighbour) was not previously owned by the same person as the other half? You presumably know who owned the bit that you have bought? If this has not been done officially, in front of a Notary, with deed documents being passed, it may be that a) there are no concrete posts showing your half of the field and b) the land registry do not know of the transaction? In which case you may need to regularise all that before you go putting up fences that the Camara might have questions about?

macliam

You don't say how you acquired this "half field" - but you need to be asolutely sure that whoever you got it from had the legal right to dispose of it..... Due to the many, many cases of multiple heirs to properties in Portugal generated by the inheritance laws and the consequent risk of property fragmentation, local camaras are usually loathe to subdivide land.... and may well impose limits below which any division will not be accepted (which calls into question the area of your "half field") These limits will depend where in Portugal the land is situated.

Legally dividing a property requires official sanction, so, if you used a lawyer (and I hope you did), I would go back to them and ask for clarification of the process and documentation. If the land you hold has been officially partitioned, there should be a "certidão do registo predial" covering your section and there will normally be physical markers in place (as suggested by Rambling archer above). If you have no documentation and/or there are no markers - and you have no lawyer to quiz, then you need visit your local Conservatória and ask them to identify the fraction and the registered owner. Once your legal entitlement to the land is established, you can ask them about demarcation..... but if not, you may have to tackle the person from whom you got the land.

HeleneM

Thanks for your advice Rambling Archer. The field was owned by a family so there are only concrete posts at the upper and lower boundaries. The central boundary marked on the plan appears to follow a dip in the land. That's a good point about the type of fence allowed; where would that sort of restrictions be published? The purchase was done officially through a solicitor and in front of a solicitor. I assume I will need to find a surveyor to mark out the boundary on the land but as I am not in contact with the owners of the other half of the plot (although I can probably track them down as the two plots were sold at about the same time),I was wondering putting up a fence should be done in conjunction with the owners of the other plot so it's agreed on.

HeleneM

Thanks for your response and advice Macliam. We legally own the land and have the certidao do registro etc. There are only physical markers at the upper and lower boundaries, but not down the middle, which is where we want to put the fence.

Should the original owner of the land have completed the demarcation of the two plots by placing the boundary stones before selling?

I have approached our lawyer for guidance. Still waiting for a response...

macliam

I presume you mean that there are markers for the original section, but not after it has been divided. Your certidão should provide detail of the area, etc. and If that's the case, I would go to the Conservatória and tell them there are no marked boundaries (and I'd still check that I had title...... but that's just me ). If they point you to any existing markers, then the boundary is line of sight between them. If the other owners aren't about, they can't complain either!!

liveaboard

There are restrictions about fencing, and I was told to ask for permission from the camara first.
I didn't.
You do need to get your property surveyed and marked.
People can be very touchy about that sort of thing, and it's a good idea to have it properly done.

barlaventoexpert

You don't say where you are in Portugal.

However, in the first instance, I would suggest you seek the advice of a local Topógrafo who are licensed by the DGT to undertake land surveys and, I understand, mark boundaries.

One can search the national association for approved local persons here -

Atualidades

Also the DGT have a list here

https://www.dgterritorio.gov.pt/regu...ista-entidades

HeleneM

Thanks very much for the links. I am on the Silver Coast. The Camara is Caldas da Rainha.

HeleneM

That's useful information, thanks. Yes, I definitely need a surveyor to demarcate the plot.

HeleneM

Thanks again. I'll do that. And a good idea to check the deeds.

barlaventoexpert

Hélene,

It is VERY important to cross/reference and verify the plans between the following documents;

1) Caderneta predial
2) Certidão permanente
3) Escritura da compra e venda
4) Planta arquitetural
5) Planta do lote/Terreno

We lived near Torres Vedras. When we moved up from Lagos three years ago, we visited many properties.

One of them recommended by a "leading brand" imobilíario showed us a rebuild near Mafra which we were interest in.

I asked for all the above documents to be sent me.

They were hesitant.

When they arrived, I found substantial discrepancies in the area of the plot between the (registered) documents as well as 20 year-old codicil which had been added to provide for a "serventia" providing access to a plot behind the house which had to access to public roads. As a result we would have being paying IMI on land, legally ours, but which we could not use.

After roasting the agent for not advising us about this, we withdrew our interest when the owners & agent refused to resolve these conflicts in the legal documents.

What I learned from this is that many older properties and land boundaries are not "settled" or fully legally registered.

Full current legal registration of property boundaries, with codicils, is critical. A Government-registered surveyor is therefore imperative.

I would finally add that it's probably best to contact a surveyor directly & not trust ones recommended by lawyers as there can always be links between such "professionals"!

BillBullock

This is very good advice. My son had similar problems when he rebuilt a ruin on land he thought he owned according to his documentation. It cost him a lot of money and time to get things sorted by a solicitor as the authorities held chaotic documentation and didn't even know how to sort it out.

HeleneM

Thanks barlaventoexpert and Billbullock for your advice. I very much appreciate you taking the time to share your knowledge. I visited the plot yesterday as the agent who sold it to us had been told by the previous owner that she, her cousin and the typographer had agreed on the boundary and placed stones down the plot. We could not find them last year so I'm looking again now. I'll be tracking down that typographer to confirm the boundary line is that stated on our documentation. I'll also go back to our lawyer as we don't have all of the documents listed by barlaventoexpert. Anything do with bureaucracy here seems to be a potential minefield. Starting to really appreciate the importance of not relying on what I am told but fact checking everything for myself.

barlaventoexpert

Helene,

A pleasure!

You are looking for a "Topógrafo" in Portuguese which translates as a "Topographer" or "Surveyor" in English.

A "typographer" is a totally different animal!

One thing I missed is that we are talking about a plot of land here without a building on it.

Is it for agriculture?

If not, does it have planning permission?

You may not need these documents if it is for agricultural use:

1) Caderneta predial (This relates to a building.)
4) Planta arquitetural

A registered surveyor should be able to advise.

Sorry for the oversight.