Experience public health care
Nov 26th 2019, 6:40 pm
#31
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Re: Experience public health care
Yes UK ones are expensive and absolutely no point paying so much for one when you live in Portugal. EDP don't do health insurance, it's a discount card, sure it's ok for a discount at the doctor but it's not a health insurance and certainly won't cover hospitalization etc. Similar discount cars are available from "insurance companies" not electricity companies.
If you wan't a proper health insurance that's going to cover all eventualities and save you having to go to the public system then you should be looking at companies like Multicare(the best and what I sell!
) Medis, Allianz and MGEN (latter especially if you're over 70). Prices very much depend on the cover you go for and hugely depend on your age too. British to be honest are not big buyers of health insurance here, mainly I get Americans and South Africans. That said, recently and I think due to Brexit more for sure are inquiring about it.
If you wan't a proper health insurance that's going to cover all eventualities and save you having to go to the public system then you should be looking at companies like Multicare(the best and what I sell!
) Medis, Allianz and MGEN (latter especially if you're over 70). Prices very much depend on the cover you go for and hugely depend on your age too. British to be honest are not big buyers of health insurance here, mainly I get Americans and South Africans. That said, recently and I think due to Brexit more for sure are inquiring about it.
Nov 26th 2019, 6:57 pm
#32
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Re: Experience public health care
Hadn't realised we had an insurance professional on board! Yes, that makes sense about UK ones being pointless when you live here.
As an AFPOP member I looked in to the Allianz policy (via Medal ) because members get a discount. But never went ahead (yet) due to the vagueness about pre-existg health problems. They were excluded but then there was an unspecified discount on them.
In my mind, pre-existing conditions are the very things that come back and bite you later unless you can get them sorted.
As an AFPOP member I looked in to the Allianz policy (via Medal ) because members get a discount. But never went ahead (yet) due to the vagueness about pre-existg health problems. They were excluded but then there was an unspecified discount on them.
In my mind, pre-existing conditions are the very things that come back and bite you later unless you can get them sorted.
Nov 26th 2019, 8:55 pm
#33
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Re: Experience public health care
Preexisting conditions means pre-diagnosed ones. If it hasn't been clinically diagnosed, you don't have it yet.
If you want to know any detail of the insurance cover, just phone or write the agent and ask; that what they do for a living.
If you want to know any detail of the insurance cover, just phone or write the agent and ask; that what they do for a living.
Last edited by liveaboard; Nov 26th 2019 at 9:01 pm.
Nov 27th 2019, 7:54 am
#34
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Re: Experience public health care
I am showing my ignorance here, but I am baffled! So you could have a pre-existing condition, like a bad back. Never been diagnosed, but you've been to the doctor occasionally, over a few years, for painkillers for back ache. That is recorded in your medical records. But nothing diagnosed. So does that count against you?
And why ask the agent what they do for a living?
And why ask the agent what they do for a living?
Nov 27th 2019, 8:42 am
#35
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Re: Experience public health care
Pre-existing is complicated and is a pain in the @$$ for me as I like to be as transparent and clear as possible with potential clients but we are not the ones who take the decision as to wherever or not said health issue will be excluded, covered or covered with an additional fee. We only know after the questionnaire is done and the insurance company's medical team analyze each case. The client then decides if they want to advance or not. As a rule of thumb though, I always tell clients to expect any pre-existing to be excluded and be prepared to have to go to the public system if they have problems with that health issue. If it's not excluded or any increase in price, bonus!
Liveabroad, our company Multicare indeed works on that basis but I have heard of other companies considering pre-existing as the likes of wear and tear on the back that's been done over time, so the treat it as a preexisting condition.
Planky, insurance companies don't have access to your previous personal medical records.
Loafing, they're all "worth it"
Some have a larger network than others, some work better than others.
Liveabroad, our company Multicare indeed works on that basis but I have heard of other companies considering pre-existing as the likes of wear and tear on the back that's been done over time, so the treat it as a preexisting condition.
Planky, insurance companies don't have access to your previous personal medical records.
Loafing, they're all "worth it"
Some have a larger network than others, some work better than others.
Nov 27th 2019, 12:28 pm
#36
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Re: Experience public health care
Very interesting to get the insider's comments on this.
Nov 27th 2019, 1:00 pm
#37
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Location: Alvaiázere, central Portugal
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Re: Experience public health care
I am a bit concerned about some of the comments here.
There is a concept in insurance known as ‘utmost good faith’. This means that conditions, whether formally diagnosed or not, must be revealed to the insurer at the time of application. Unrevealed issues which may later come to light can invalidate a policy. For example, let us take the bad back issue. Whilst of course it is likely not to be anything affecting mortality or morbidity, what if it is a sign of kidney disease? Doctors may know about it and, on receipt of a claim medical records are likely to be checked. The claim can be disallowed. In the UK, and I am confident that the same will apply in Portugal, medical records can be checked at the point of a claim.
Revealing something which you believe to be minor will not automatically lead to exclusions or increased premiums, or to a moratorium (a period of waiting before a claim for a condition associated with that event would be allowed.). In fact, I would not expect the revelation of periods of back pain, for example, would even be questioned.
It is safest and is required to be open in this way. Of course, should you never have revealed the condition to anyone, there may be no evidence that could counter a claim; by hiding it you may never be discovered, but whether this is how you wish to act is a decision for you to make.
Moral and ethical issues aside, it is pointless to have an insurance policy and pay the premiums if there is risk that benefits might be withheld. Better to pay more, if necessary, to guarantee the cover, or pay nothing for nonexistent protection.
(nb. Until recent retirement I was. UK Chartered Financial Planner, holding, amongst others, advanced insurance qualifications)
There is a concept in insurance known as ‘utmost good faith’. This means that conditions, whether formally diagnosed or not, must be revealed to the insurer at the time of application. Unrevealed issues which may later come to light can invalidate a policy. For example, let us take the bad back issue. Whilst of course it is likely not to be anything affecting mortality or morbidity, what if it is a sign of kidney disease? Doctors may know about it and, on receipt of a claim medical records are likely to be checked. The claim can be disallowed. In the UK, and I am confident that the same will apply in Portugal, medical records can be checked at the point of a claim.
Revealing something which you believe to be minor will not automatically lead to exclusions or increased premiums, or to a moratorium (a period of waiting before a claim for a condition associated with that event would be allowed.). In fact, I would not expect the revelation of periods of back pain, for example, would even be questioned.
It is safest and is required to be open in this way. Of course, should you never have revealed the condition to anyone, there may be no evidence that could counter a claim; by hiding it you may never be discovered, but whether this is how you wish to act is a decision for you to make.
Moral and ethical issues aside, it is pointless to have an insurance policy and pay the premiums if there is risk that benefits might be withheld. Better to pay more, if necessary, to guarantee the cover, or pay nothing for nonexistent protection.
(nb. Until recent retirement I was. UK Chartered Financial Planner, holding, amongst others, advanced insurance qualifications)
Last edited by Diddion; Nov 27th 2019 at 1:03 pm.
Nov 27th 2019, 1:16 pm
#38
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Re: Experience public health care
Hadn't realised we had an insurance professional on board! Yes, that makes sense about UK ones being pointless when you live here.
As an AFPOP member I looked in to the Allianz policy (via Medal ) because members get a discount. But never went ahead (yet) due to the vagueness about pre-existg health problems. They were excluded but then there was an unspecified discount on them.
In my mind, pre-existing conditions are the very things that come back and bite you later unless you can get them sorted.
As an AFPOP member I looked in to the Allianz policy (via Medal ) because members get a discount. But never went ahead (yet) due to the vagueness about pre-existg health problems. They were excluded but then there was an unspecified discount on them.
In my mind, pre-existing conditions are the very things that come back and bite you later unless you can get them sorted.
Portugal has a law with a definition of pre-existing conditions. That is a very logical denifition.
I think I met the wrong person at Medal ......... So I did not sign a contract.
Nov 27th 2019, 1:22 pm
#39
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Re: Experience public health care
Here the definition of PRE-EXISTING CONDITION in the Portuguese law:
https://dre.pt/legislacao-consolidad...Tag=Seguros/en
1 - As doenças preexistentes, conhecidas da pessoa segura à data da realização do contrato, consideram-se abrangidas na cobertura convencionada pelo segurador, podendo ser excluídas por acordo em contrário, de modo genérico ou especificadamente.
2 - O contrato pode ainda prever um período de carência não superior a um ano para a cobertura de doenças preexistentes.
https://dre.pt/legislacao-consolidad...Tag=Seguros/en
Artigo 216.º
Doenças preexistentes1 - As doenças preexistentes, conhecidas da pessoa segura à data da realização do contrato, consideram-se abrangidas na cobertura convencionada pelo segurador, podendo ser excluídas por acordo em contrário, de modo genérico ou especificadamente.
2 - O contrato pode ainda prever um período de carência não superior a um ano para a cobertura de doenças preexistentes.
Nov 27th 2019, 4:09 pm
#40
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Re: Experience public health care
Now this Artigo 216 has really confused me!
So this Portuguese law says under (1) that pre-existing conditions are considered to be covered by the insurer, but can also be excluded by agreement. Who would ever want to agree to exclude a pre-existing condition from their insurance cover?
So this Portuguese law says under (1) that pre-existing conditions are considered to be covered by the insurer, but can also be excluded by agreement. Who would ever want to agree to exclude a pre-existing condition from their insurance cover?
Nov 27th 2019, 4:39 pm
#41
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Re: Experience public health care
Now this Artigo 216 has really confused me!
So this Portuguese law says under (1) that pre-existing conditions are considered to be covered by the insurer, but can also be excluded by agreement. Who would ever want to agree to exclude a pre-existing condition from their insurance cover?
So this Portuguese law says under (1) that pre-existing conditions are considered to be covered by the insurer, but can also be excluded by agreement. Who would ever want to agree to exclude a pre-existing condition from their insurance cover?
Nov 27th 2019, 4:50 pm
#42
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Location: Arcos de Valdevez "Onde Portugal se fez"
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Re: Experience public health care
Now this Artigo 216 has really confused me!
So this Portuguese law says under (1) that pre-existing conditions are considered to be covered by the insurer, but can also be excluded by agreement. Who would ever want to agree to exclude a pre-existing condition from their insurance cover?
So this Portuguese law says under (1) that pre-existing conditions are considered to be covered by the insurer, but can also be excluded by agreement. Who would ever want to agree to exclude a pre-existing condition from their insurance cover?
Nov 27th 2019, 5:32 pm
#43
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Re: Experience public health care
Ok
Nov 27th 2019, 6:12 pm
#44
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Re: Experience public health care
Why is this becoming so complex?
It is actually straighforward.
You tell the insurance company about any conditions, whether they are minor or not. There is no need to talk about things which are definitely irrelevant, such as a bout of flu, unless that specific question is asked. The insurance company then decides whether it is a problem or not, and makes a decision about what cover, if any, they are prepared to offer, together with any conditions they may impose (such as moratoria or exclusions) You then decide whether you want it at the proposed premium. But there might be a wrinkle, here. When I applied for the Medal cover I revealed everything, and was accepted without any noted exclusions, premium weighting, or otherwise. I sleep easy knowing that I will be covered for any new conditions, and possibly for preexisting conditions. Having said all that, I don´t personally support the concept of private medical insurance, becuase it erodes the supply of doctors and health workers who might otherwise contribute to the sate-funded system, and have it until I am confident that the Portuguese NHS will not be denied, should Brexit cause anger here. I expect to cancel it at that point.
It is actually straighforward.
You tell the insurance company about any conditions, whether they are minor or not. There is no need to talk about things which are definitely irrelevant, such as a bout of flu, unless that specific question is asked. The insurance company then decides whether it is a problem or not, and makes a decision about what cover, if any, they are prepared to offer, together with any conditions they may impose (such as moratoria or exclusions) You then decide whether you want it at the proposed premium. But there might be a wrinkle, here. When I applied for the Medal cover I revealed everything, and was accepted without any noted exclusions, premium weighting, or otherwise. I sleep easy knowing that I will be covered for any new conditions, and possibly for preexisting conditions. Having said all that, I don´t personally support the concept of private medical insurance, becuase it erodes the supply of doctors and health workers who might otherwise contribute to the sate-funded system, and have it until I am confident that the Portuguese NHS will not be denied, should Brexit cause anger here. I expect to cancel it at that point.
Nov 27th 2019, 8:17 pm
#45
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Re: Experience public health care
When I told the insurer that it is better to have a private insurance now, because up to now I am in good health. The reaction was: YOU DON'T KNOW.
If after years of insurance there is a medical problem and Allianz can proof that this was already in my body without knowing it or without feeling it, it will be excluded.
My reaction was: this is very often the case, because sometimes you are born with a weakness in your body without knowing it and when you are 70 years old it comes out. So what guarantees have I that my insurance will cover future illness. Answer: there is no guarantee.
I don't smoke, but in this case, when you smoke (or have smoked) you can forget they will cover you when you would have future loung-problems or other problems in relation to smoking.
People with a heart attack the same thing: The insurance might proof that your veines are in a bad condition for many many years and that was the cause for the heart-attack ......
These examples I gave to the insurance company and they told me that this can happen. Can you imagine the problem when you are in a private hospital and the insurance company does not want to pay ....... Who is paying the expensive treatment up to that moment ..... Better sell your house and pay the bill.
If after years of insurance there is a medical problem and Allianz can proof that this was already in my body without knowing it or without feeling it, it will be excluded.
My reaction was: this is very often the case, because sometimes you are born with a weakness in your body without knowing it and when you are 70 years old it comes out. So what guarantees have I that my insurance will cover future illness. Answer: there is no guarantee.
I don't smoke, but in this case, when you smoke (or have smoked) you can forget they will cover you when you would have future loung-problems or other problems in relation to smoking.
People with a heart attack the same thing: The insurance might proof that your veines are in a bad condition for many many years and that was the cause for the heart-attack ......
These examples I gave to the insurance company and they told me that this can happen. Can you imagine the problem when you are in a private hospital and the insurance company does not want to pay ....... Who is paying the expensive treatment up to that moment ..... Better sell your house and pay the bill.