waterhobo

Applied for a portuguese driving license 6 months ago as i am now permanent resident and according to the rules i had to do this.
I have been driving on a temporary for the last 6 months which has all my categories of vehicles i need to drive on it. Car, motor cycle, car with trailer.
The real license arrives with just car endorsed on it.
Contacted the office in Faro only to be told that UK DVLA had only endorsed a car and nothing else even though my uk license had the aforementioned categories on it. She said she had a paper issued by DVLA that stated that I could only drive a car. I said I would come to Faro and she could show me the paper. She refused to do so saying it was confidential. ? infomation about me from the uk confidential?. She said that she needed the copy of the test pass for a motorcycle if i was to have it added to the portuguese license. I told her I took the test in 1972 and didn't have the paper. She said I would have to take a portuguese motorcycle test. I asked her when she passed her test. 2009 was the answer. I asked if she had the pass certificate for that and she answered no. I don't think she realised the point i was making.
She said that DVLA had to issue a letter stating that I had taken and passed a test on the motor cycle and she would then endorse my license accordingly. But it must state that i had completed the training and passed the test..
I then rang DVLAand recounted the story to them. The girl said that they had sent nothing to Portugal regarding me transferring my license and had had no request from the portuguese licesing authorities. She said my problem was with them and I should ring them. I told her the story again, she again said ring them. Going round in circles by now.
OK i said, can you send me documentary proof that i did my motorbike test and passed it uk. No she said. She would sendme an "Entitlement to drive" certificate which would list all the categories i could drive, then i could present this to the portuguese and have my license ammended.
I then rang faro office again and asked if this would be acceptable. They said no unless it actually states that I took and passed a specific test for motorcycles. I said its strange that they issued me a car license without that statement but won't issue the motor cycle. She put the phone down.
Now I am getting angry, frustrated and ready to go knock some doors down. Pointless and non productive I know but it may make me feel better.
I went to a driving school to see what taking the portuguese motor bike test entailed. Cn't remember all the details but something like 32 hours of theory training and 28 hours of on the road before i can even take the test. No exceptions.
I've only been riding bikes for 38 years so obviously need the practise.

This what happens when you try and "do the right thing" here in Portugal. If I had my time again I would do the same as most and stay under the radar, pay the fine if caught and dodge tax and everything else.
Now I'm on this road there's no turning back though.
Has anyone had this happen to them and can they offer any advice on a sensible way out of it for me.
I live here, am permanent resident, pay tax here.

liveaboard

try another driving school or two.

mfesharne

This is a common thing with IMT & you need to contact the DVLA who will send you a document stating the classes of vehicle you're entitled to drive....... Then take that to any PT Doctor who has access to the PT NHS data base & get the letter from him & then return to IMT & be prepared to argue................. They tried the same thing on me but I just told them I wasn't going anywhere until I got what I was entitled to.............. and eventually they caved in.

waterhobo

Thanks, i may have to go that route, However I feel like this is one i can fight and win because they are clearly in the wrong. I'm just not sure yet of my best way to fight it. I'm fed up of being treated like this and lied to by local portuguese officialdom..They seem to think they can just fob you off with any old bunkum and you will accept it. Apparently the document DVLA issue is the european agreed entitlement to drive certificate they should be accepting it as proof. They seem to be doing their own thing on this one like they do with many other subjects. Or then again it may just be one person at their office who is taking this stance with me. I will find a way round or through her if I have to. Nothing to lose now.

waterhobo

Thanks for that. Its what I intend to do. I'm fed up with this attitude that they know the rules and you are an idiot who just accepts everything they say because they are the government.

Sunseeker1st

How about going to a Documents Agency and see if they can help.

mfesharne

It's not about the documents but rather about the issuing officer & if you already have the right documents you just need to go back & argue your case & if they still refuse you I guess the next step is to ask for the complaints book & whilst filling it in, mention the name of the civil servant who is refusing to give you what you're entitled to.

azulp

I received my new PT license recently, and my bike entitlement was included. But I lost car with trailer and 7.5t vehicles, despite the fact that I completed the psycho test.

Weirdly my UK licence is still valid! (You can check it online).

I am off to IMT to argue my case next week. If i get nowhere then I am filling in the complaints book.

BTW as someone who deals with people's data under the new data protection rules I can confirm that it is an obligation to show all data that you hold on a person. So by refusing to show you the letter they have from DVLA they are in breach of the data protection regulations.

I am also thinking about asking DVLA for a second copy of my license. Whilst I know that this is not officially allowed, I may use it to further my argument and then cancel it.

waterhobo

Yes, when i spoke to UK dvla they confirmed that my license was still live and no contact had been made by the portuguese licensing agency. I will check later online what the records say about me. The refusal to show me the document is probably because they don't have one and have never checked on me. They've just issued a basic car license and are now fighting a rear guard action to try to justify what they've done. They are not getting away with this one. If they think they will, they have seriously underestimated me.

ouriquejan

You could also try a different IMT office.

azulp

So today, I took a deep breath and went to IMT to discuss the missing categories on my driving licence.
First staff member (who was organising tickets) started to say "well that is the way it is, you didn´t take a test for those categories etc." We agreed to disagree so I was given a ticket to go to one of the desks.
Desk lady says just fill that form in and ask for the correction. Me-err, no your colleague says it is not that simple, it is an issue with the tests/categories. Her-ok then you need to speak to lady #3, who was helping people with queries.
So I now get to lady #3, and explain, and I get the same story (if you didn't take a test then we can´t give you that category). Explain that DVLA consider all of my categories to be valid, and the PT authorities can not choose to ignore that. So then starts the "in Portugal" lecture.
So we get on to the EU rules in relation to this, and how PT are not complying. She disappears to talk to IMT lawyer, and then says this is the law in Portugal, and we are following the EU rules.
In the time she left me waiting, I was able to find an EU decision (2016/1945) that relates to exchange of driving licences. The most relevant part is(2)

azulp

And by the way they were happy to show me the email that they received from DVLA confirming that all my categories were valid, but that I had only taken a formal test for car and motorbike.

waterhobo

THanks Azulp.
I'd already found the EU law reference what you say and have it printed out and highlighted ready to give them. Not that it probably do any good. I now also have an entitlement to drive certificate that I will also give them. DVLA say that that is all I need. Portugal say it is not sufficient proof but we will see when I produce it. Out of interest, did you take your bike test before 1974 or after. This is the date that all regional licensing records were centralised in uk and it seems some records were missing during that process. I took mine before 1974 and there is apparently not a dated record of my bike test being taken even though its been on my license for the past 40 odd years. Because there is no dated test record the Dvla declined to confirm I have taken an actual test even though they know I have. Apparently the records after 1974 are complete and people should not have a problem with bike tests but are likely to lose other categories where there was no actual test taken, like trailers etc. Hey ho, back to Faro next week to see what they say, not giving up that easily though.

azulp

Hi.
Their "logic" is based on no test, no licence in PT, so the only way around that is to prove that this is not the case for an EU license.
I took my bike test in 1997, and DVLA confirmed this to IMT.
I will see what happens with my complaint, and if I don´t get a sensible reply I am going to try the SOLVIT service.
I do recommend that you fill in the complaints book, they weren't too keen on this and I think the more people that complain the more chance they have to take notice.

Voz da Razao

I have been through this too. I kept my categories A and B but lost C1, D1, and the corresponding E categories. I have been told by the British Consulate that the Portuguese interpretation is correct. I asked DVLA, the EU, and IMT too. They all agreed. I spoke with friends in Spain and Germany and they have had the same result. I am still annoyed by it, nearly two years later, but it seems that this is the regulation. I am more annoyed that some people are still being exchanging UK-issued licences and retaining all the categories even without passing a test.