Andy43

You're going to be hearing quite a bit from me as we slowly progress towards owning in Portugal!

Today's question - the area the house we're aiming at is on, near Lagos, has a massive central underground gas tank, supplying each house via it's own meter.
Only gas appliance in the property is a multipoint water heater. No central heating or AC of any form... yet.

Still early days in the buying process (and the mortgage process!) so I know nothing about how it's filled, by whom, or how it's charged and billed.

Does anybody have any knowledge of how this system works in terms of standing charges, who organises refilling etc, exactly just how ridiculous the kwh charges are, or whether I'm better off going with my preferred plan of an air source heat pump, solar PV and low temperature aluminium radiators?

chislenko

We have the same system, administered by Rubis Gas. Standing charge is 4.17 euros a month. They refill, read meter etc, all bills paid by DD. The only negative has been that Rubis are the third different supplier we have had so there has been quite a bit of new agreement form filling each time a different company had taken over the contract.

Andy43

Many thanks for that! 4 euros I can stand. Would you happen to know how much it costs roughly, per kwh?

chislenko

On the last bill 3.39 per unit plus IVA making it 4.17 per unit. Right looking at it more closely the 4.17 isn't a standing charge they just bill us one unit every month when we are not there then when they read it adjust it accordingly to what we owe.

1711JohnB

Hi

We have a central gas system in our apartment in Tavira. Rubis sends my bill direct to my address in the UK and as it happens the latest one arrived today.

We have never paid a standing charge and some months when the apartment is empty have no bill at all. The latest one, was for 4 units at Euro 3.450 plus the excessive IVA amount of 23% so in total, Euro 16.97.

We have a gas water heater and our cooker is gas. It seems really cheap against what we pay in electricity charges (+23% iva) but then I suppose it depends on how much elec you use (TV and cooker plus all lights which are low power LED). You have however on your elec bill have to factor in the AV charge of approx Euro 6 plus 6 % for Portugal TV. Pity the UK do not move to this method.

1711JohnB

Sneaky.

Just about to file the bill away and noticed that it has gone up from last months Euro 3.200 per unit to Euro 3.450 so a 7.5% increase per unit. Have not had any notification.

JohnB

chislenko

John, ours arrived today also and had gone from 3.39 to 3.65 and we are just up the road from you. They must factor in delivery into the unit price, perhaps you are closer to the depot.

Andy43

This is really useful stuff - thank you both, I really appreciate it.
UK gas is quoted in pence per kwh - do you know what each portuguese unit represents - euros per cubic metre perhaps?

1711JohnB

Hi Andy

I think its a cubic meter.

We are in Pergada. Where are you Chislenko as I'm quite sure that it will be the same bulk carrier that fills up both our estate tanks.

JohnB

chislenko

Conciecao John.

Andy43

Brilliant! So that's close to 4 euro per cubic metre, plus 23% tax.
Next question I suppose would be how I work out what that'd be in pence per kwh.
LPG has about 7kwh per litre when liquid, so 7,000 kwh per cubic metre.
Natural gas in the UK has about 11 kwh per cubic metre - bit of a difference there!
Any idea what the gas actually is - butane, propane, nat gas or lpg?

1711JohnB

Hi Andy

Works out at 4.243 per unit including 23% imi. My bill says Propano (propane) that its 100% fossil but nothing about its efficiency.

John

Andy43

Thank you - yet again!
Internet says 1 cubic metre of propane has 25.9 kwh in it, so that equates, if my maffs iz correct, to just over 16 cents per kwh.
Electricity is in the lead at this point I suspect!