Banking in Portugal
 

I plan on moving back to Portugal (after 50 years) and I'm wondering how safe the banks are in Portugal. Trump is about to take office here and I'm afraid that my mutual fund will take hit. The euro seems to be at a low point against the US dollar, this might be a good time to start transferring to a Portugese bank but how safe are the banks?

Re: Banking in Portugal
 

Not necessarily a good time to ask after the BES fiasco and concerns over Novo Banco......

However, you could transfer your money to a Euro-designated bank in a more regulated market (e.g. Ireland) and open a current account for the day-to-day in Portugal...... Transfers between the two should be quick and there is no problem with exchange rates.

Others may have different opinions.

Re: Banking in Portugal
 

I'd have thought the chances are the Euro will go tits up far more than the USD will & would therefore personally choose to keep my money in USD rather than change it to Euros.

Alternatively, if I were going to change my USD for something else, it'd be to GBP.

Only personal opinion though.

Re: Banking in Portugal
 

Provided your money is in accounts covered by the deposit guarantee scheme, it's safe up to the value of 100,000 euros per named account holder per bank.

That means that if a bank your money is in goes bust, you still get all of your money, provided you ensure that it is covered by the scheme and you don't breach the limit in any one bank.

Links below - hope this helps :)

http://www.fgd.pt/en-US/Pages/inicio.aspx
http://www.fgd.pt/en-us/FAQs/Pages/default.aspx

Re: Banking in Portugal
 

Welcome [back] to Portugal;
This has been covered before.
The business climate in Portugal remains shaky, with little confidence in the ethics of judiciary, government, or big business.
Presumably your pension / investments are in the US. The decision to sell them and buy EU [or other] vehicles, even aside from currency exchange rates, is a very serious business.

If possible, invest in things you know about.
Get advice from someone who is separate from anyone who earns a commission from you. Conflicts of interest run deep.
The waters are full of sharks waiting to get a bite of your hard earned wealth.

Why on earth would a person moving from USD to Euros want British currency??? With Brexit looming, the future of the UK pound is completely unpredictable.

If you want to start speculating on other currencies, Indian rupees offer 10% interest.

Re: Banking in Portugal
 

All currency futures are obviously complete speculation but if I were in the position stated by the O/P I'd be inclined to keep my money in USD because I think it's future is looking the best at the moment......... and I certainly wouldn't consider changing it to Euros because I think there's a very good chance of it either going completely tits up or at the very least, weakening dramatically in the next twelve months or so.

I'd also be very cautious about parking any more than the minimum with any Portuguese bank at any time because if the Greeks can give their (larger) investors a compulsory haircut the way they did, I reckon the same thing could happen anywhere else in the Eurozone.

However, if I felt it imperative to change from USD to something else, it'd be to GBP because I think it's future will be more secure than most other hard currencies - especially the Euro.

'Fraid I don't know much about the Rupee so can't comment but equally that's reason enough for me not to invest in it.

Re: Banking in Portugal
 

I can't see what a haircut on Government bonds has to do with cash deposits in banks :confused:

Re: Banking in Portugal
 

There is one thimg you can rely on and that is there will aleays be up or downsides on currencies.
The pound us currently the currency that is in decline andcI would not invest heavily in sterling until the terms of brexit are known and what its effects will be.
The collapse of the Euro has been forcast for years and it is still in existence and holding its own.
Hold a basket of currencies if you are concerned.
We are strong in Euros because of the performance of sterling and always keep some in dollars as this is still the preferred currency in much of the world.

Re: Banking in Portugal
 

So do you think the future of the Euro is looking more secure than that of the USD or GBP?

Or that the European banks are more trustworthy & secure than the British banks?

I certainly don't.

Gotta say, I don't trust any bank but the Euro banks seem to be looking dodgier by the day.

Re: Banking in Portugal
 

These are the sort of stories that make me charry about keeping money in any Eurozone based account...... Portuguese or otherwise:

Greek Banks Considering 30% Haircut On Deposits Over €8,000: FT | Zero Hedge

Blog: Greek bank depositors in line for a 'haircut'

Re: Banking in Portugal
 

:confused::confused:

Still struggling. Can't see what the Cypriot banking crisis of 2013 or the Greek banking crisis of July 2015 have to do with the safety of Portugal's banking system today.

But go on, then - just for the sake of completeness, what did happen in the end in each of those cases?

Re: Banking in Portugal
 

Don't know why you're struggling with the idea but as I see it, if things like the links I posted are even ever discussed/reported it suggests to me that it might not be a good idea to change my money/investments etc into Euros.

Add on what's going on with the Italian banking issues & Deutche Bank & it'd make me considerably more wary.

These things are always a matter of personal choice but (IMO) the USD & GBP will be a much safer bet than Euros in the next year or two.

If you think otherwise, I'd be interested to hear what you base your opinion on?

Re: Banking in Portugal
 

I should have added that it's not really about what did or didn't happen but more about what was considered/discussed/reported & what might have happened........ to me, that's morte than enough to make me cautious about any Euro investments & to believe the USD or GBP are much safer.

Re: Banking in Portugal
 

Why would you choose 2 currencies that are a gamble at this stage? No one knows what the GBP will do come Brexit. No one knows what the USD will do when the orange menace starts his shite.

Strange that you pick the 2 that are the most difficult to predict due to the uncertainty. No big players have shown their cards on this as they are all unsure yet YOU seem to know it all.

I can give you links to where I predicted the USD/ZAR to head to 13,5 months ago by year end when "experts" were predicting 19,0. This did not happen and it has stabilized around 13,5 where I said it would.

I am a currency and stock trader and rely on it for my income.

Re: Banking in Portugal
 

Spot on!

Re: Banking in Portugal
 

I'd have thought it pretty damn obvious why I said I thought USD & GBP were the best options & have even explained why but let me know which part of my statement puzzles you & I'll be happy to explain further. :rofl:

What you do for a living has no relevance to my statements because I'm expressing my personal opinion not yours.

Continuing with my personal opinion I think Brexit & Trump will strengthen the respective currencies in the longer term........ but do also appreciate the GBP has weakened after the referendum and in the interim period before A50 is triggered.

However, if anyone believes the Euro will be a better bet I'd be interested to hear their reasons why?

Because to me, the Euro is looking dodgier by the day.

As for the ZAR, I can't see any time in the foreseeable future where it's downward spiral will cease in the longer term......... I'm sure they'll be slight ups & downs but I reckon they'll be a lot more downs than ups.

Just look at what it was 20 or 30 years ago to what it's worth now. :confused:

Re: Banking in Portugal
 

As I've said previously I'd expect the Euro to weaken over the next year or two & in fact, wouldn't be surprised if two or three years from now at least some of the current Eurozone countries (including Portugal) haven't reverted back to their previous currencies.

Which IMO would be a good thing.

Re: Banking in Portugal
 

So you would be happy to take a huge hit on your Portuguese assets and property and the pain that would be inflicted on the Portuguese.
A currency , the escudo thst would go into freefall without the support of the eurozone.
Inflation, import prices, interest rates escalating.
How would it be a good thing for Portugal.

Re: Banking in Portugal
 

The links you posted were rumours and supposition and in at least one of those cases was being pumped out for political purposes.

However, as I don't wish to sound too tin-foil-hatter :lol: I'll give you a very straight answer to your rather muddled assertions so far, at least on the very specific matter on which I was commenting ;)

Anybody asking a question on this or other expats in Portugal forums as to "is my money safe in a Portuguese bank?" gets the stock "the euro's on the brink of collapse" or "all banks in the Eurozone are flaky" responses (however inappropriate they are for the question actually asked). This has been going on for years. And yet nobody whose money has been in a deposit guaranteed account, either in Portugal or elsewhere in the Eurozone, has ever lost a single euro cent (and nor are they likely to, as far as I can see), which is what I base my opinion on.

Re: Banking in Portugal
 

Thanks! Lots of great answers, and some heated political...

I should of been more clear, I'm not worried about the value of the dollar dropping quickly, and I'm not looking into reinvesting. I'm thinking of cashing in my mutual fund, before the orange menace destroys the economy. During the last years of the Bush rein my mutual fund lost $40,000, I can't afford that again closer to retirement! I want to put my mutual fund cash in a savings account and be safe.

The quote above answers my question perfectly. Thanks :thumbup:

Re: Banking in Portugal
 

Eric

My points are that (IMO) the Euro banks don't appear to be as stable as the UK & US ones AND ALSO that the Euro itself isn't anywhere near as secure as the USD or GBP in not only value but also existence.

What for example would happen if the O/P changed his investment into Euros and the Euro itself was then scrapped or abandoned (which is far from impossible) & the individual countries reverted to their previous currencies......... suddenly, his investment is changed from Euros into Escudos or Pesatas etc?

Of those three options, I'd personally go for USD first or if I felt a change necessary then GBP would be my second option.

But hey, it's all speculation & no-one can see into the future.

Re: Banking in Portugal
 

Well if the euro currency suddenly explodes or something I guess we're all a bit doomed, even those of us who don't have anything at all denominated in euros :)

However, as well as being the currency of the Eurozone, it is also the world's second most held reserve currency.

As for the banks - well there have been some pretty spectacular failures and losses in the US and the UK, too. And I'm not sure how much use the UK banks might be to an expat Portuguese returning from the US. Nigh on impossible to open a UK account unless you're resident there.

I make no claims to be any sort of financial expert or advisor but if people ask if their money is safe in Portuguese banks then in my opinion the answer is yes, provided it's in guaranteed accounts. I'm only aware of one occasion on which the deposit guarantee was required to be invoked here in Portugal - in the main the banks have been rescued and subsequently sold rather than allowed to collapse. In either case funds in guaranteed accounts were unaffected - and in fact amounts exceeding the guarantee limits were also unaffected in the case of rescued banks.

I won't vouch for the long-term future of the euro or speculate on it's possible future value against other currencies - I leave that sort of thing to the experts. But I guess we'd get some inkling if the currency's about to be dissolved or if Portugal is considering leaving the Eurozone.

Re: Banking in Portugal
 

As I've said it's all speculation but my own opinion is that of the 3 currencies being considered the Euro is going to be the riskiest.

Whilst I'm happy to buy property & live in the Eurozone there's no way on earth I'd even consider shifting my UK/GBP pension/investments into Euros for the reasons previously stated.

As it is, if PT ever reverts to the Escudo my UK pounds will probably buy me more & even compensate for inflation etc but I'd probably be in the kak if I ended up with my income in Escudos.

Which brings us to the questions of will the Euro fail & if so will the individual countries revert to their former currencies?

Personally, I think it's more a case of WHEN will it fail rather than IF........ or at the very least, that particular situation seems to be becoming increasingly likely........ The Italian & Deutche bank banking situations being good examples. - And if it does fail I don't see what the individual countries can do except revert back to their former currencies.

Of the 3 currencies, if I had my investment in USD I'd be inclined to keep it there because I think the dollar and the economy will (In the long term) strengthen under DT.

As with all things, time will tell. ;)

Re: Banking in Portugal
 

I definitely think that having an account outside Portugal / the Eurozone is an excellent backup to have. And access to internet banking for both, of course. Just in case.

I remember, back in the day, when they talked of "Grexit" in terms of not if but when ;)

Re: Banking in Portugal
 

2017 is going to be an interesting year....... I reckon the EU may very well have to change dramatically at the very least & I wouldn't be surprised if some of the other member states either voted to leave the Euro or even leave the EU entirely.

As for Greece, a Grexit is still far from impossible.

Then there's the matter of what will happen with the ailing banks. As I see it, the Govts will take the attitude that they have no choice but to bail them out but as that's against the rules the Greeks & others will then want a slice of the pie as well.

As ever, time will tell.

Re: Banking in Portugal
 

It's not against the rules, though. And the Greeks have already had to take on loans under the bailouts for recapitalising the banks, just as Portugal was forced to.

Re: Banking in Portugal
 

I'm certainly no expert but from my understanding (obviously only gleaned from various media) the individual Govts are not allowed to bail out their individual banks but (amongst others) Sky news international are reporting the Germans are planning to do just that for Deutche Bank & the Italians for theirs.

However, it is permitted for the EU/ECB & (I think) also the IMF to bail out individual Govts such as has happened (several times) with Greece for example.

I could well be wrong in that but it is what SNI reported recently.

Re: Banking in Portugal
 

The current rules are essentially that direct state aid cannot be made available until after injections of private capital have been sought, and that bank bail-in bondholders get to share some of the burden. But it's certainly not prohibited, which is why the German and Italian governments are able legitimately to make their plans.

Hmmmm..... that's one way of looking at it, I suppose. Bailing out the governments ;)

Re: Banking in Portugal
 

Just another way for the EU to maintain dominance over the individual member states IMO. :(

And of course, yet another factor that could & (IMO) almost certainly will affect the Euro & the EU is the Brexit when it eventually happens.

Re: Banking in Portugal
 

Not really what I meant but the bailouts certainly haven't been the EU's finest hour, particularly in the case of Greece. However, things are changing gradually and I'm very pleased that Portugal is making the contribution it is to that.

Re: Banking in Portugal
 

I think Portugal has done well but also think it could do a lot better........ To me the high taxation esp the IVA & overdone bureaucracy slows progress & their inability to market the country as it could & should be marketed is also slowing growth.

As I see it the next few years will be make or break for the EU as it is now but I reckon things will have to change if it is to survive.

Re: Banking in Portugal
 

Excellent - we're agreed. And even better, António Costa agrees with us and as he seems to have lots of good ideas and is in a position to use them to persuade others, it all looks good for the future :).

Re: Banking in Portugal
 

Well let's all hope he does something about tax, bureaucracy & marketing.......... especially marketing because the tourism board are as much use as a one legged man at an arse kicking party!

This country has no end of tourism potential that's not only being ignored but is also being strangled in red tape.......... which irritates the hell out of me. :(

Re: Banking in Portugal
 

You should come south, tourism is booming, millions of Euros now being spent on new facilities and up market hotels.
Portugal is now one of the most popular destinations for Brits.

Re: Banking in Portugal
 

Then please tell Bloomberg and Goldman Sachs that YOU know better before they make a big mistake.
https://businesstech.co.za/news/fina...nvest-in-2017/

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...arkets-in-2017

Re: Banking in Portugal
 

I was thinking more of the make or break for the EU side of things. I'm all for a bit of red tape ;) and we need to develop a bit more in areas other than tourism. There's only so much potential in that market and it can be a bit destructive.

Re: Banking in Portugal
 

Tell me what part of the words 'personal opinion' you don't understand & I'll try to explain further for you. :rofl:

Re: Banking in Portugal
 

Certainly make or break for the EU but I reckon it'll need to make big changes if it's to survive....... and had they been willing to make far smaller changes, I think the Brexit vote would have gone the other way but it's too late for that now.

As for Portugal, it could do so much more for itself if it marketed itself properly whether in tourism or any other sector....... the problem is (as much as I love the Portuguese) they couldn't sell a 10 minute liaison to a drunken sailor in a house of ill repute.

I refer to tourism because I was in the business for decades and know the industry well enough to see how many opportunities they're missing....... Hell, in my area, the tourism board releases videos they hope will sell the country to tourists worldwide......... all in Portuguese! - If they want to sell to the world, they need to be in languages the rest of the world understands..... To say nothing of the fact they seem to think Portugal only consists of Lisbon & the Algarve!

Re: Banking in Portugal
 

Please do explain. Is YOUR personal opinion superior to Bloomberg and Goldman Sachs? I cannot wait for your reply.:lol:

Re: Banking in Portugal
 

FFS. Let's see if this helps:

Opinion - definition of opinion by The Free Dictionary

If you don't understand that I suggest you ask that nice Mr google.