Shanorme

You too.

Diddion

Harmony!

OK. Remainers on this side of the room Leavers on the other side. Weapons ready.....GO!!!

Mac and Mabel

mfesharne

Ummm. You might like to look at the definition of the word 'citizen' as there is no such thing as an EU citizen because the EU is not a country.

GeniB

OK people.... Sorry you have had to have this little 'contretemps' without me Shanoma... Busy shopping and preparing Christmas !!!

In answer to a couple of questions

NO I was prevented from voting as I had worked (and thus obviously lived ) in the EU beyond the 'arbitrarily' allowed 15 years ....To remind you .. The UK is one of only five countries to disenfranchise its citizens in this way.

'Dismiossed and Ignored.'.. Refers to the 'deal' that David Cameron made with Richard Gardener ( an active campaigner for the restoration of ex-pats rights in France ) Gardener promised to deliver over 300,000 votes towards Camerons ( then ) campaign to get re-elected to parliament . Cameron PROMISED in return ,to reinstate ex-pats voting rights , so that they could vote in any referendum that was being discussed at that time... Once in however ... he promptly DISMISSED AND IGNORED that promise, only giving those rights to a selective few ,

I think people forget what signing the agreement with the EU was all about. It allowed EU citizens to indeed move to the UK and CONTRIBUTE hugely to that group of countries. It however allowed UK citizens to do the same. Move to other EU countries and contribute to their economies There was never any intention of giving up citizenship of our own countries .We were not emigrating .We were still paying UK tax's in some circumstances ,and we certainly expected to receive our full pensions when we retired.

Now however... We find with Brexit, that all those agreements have been swept away without our bering able to have any say . Our rights to reciprocal health care is in jeopardy ,our pension rights also. ( one ex-pat friend in Spain has already received notice that her pension will only remain the same until 2023.. ie it will no longer be index linked, (despite her working full time from the age of 18 to 45 in the UK )so on a par with Australia where UK citizens did emigrate
There seems to be an idea that we have all been on some sort of extended 'jolly' . Nothing could be further from the truth. Many of us have been in jobs representing UK firms. Or indeed facilitating trade with companies in the UK. In my OH's case being involved with ensuring jobs weren't lost in the UK, when a prominent company was 'allowed' by the UK government to go bankrupt. He ,being on the board of the foreign company buying it ,allowed him some considerable influence

As a Libran I hate injustice, this to me has been a huge case of gross injustice to ex-pats .

It is however ,as the parlance goes... 'A done deal'

So all that remains is to wish everyone a Very Happy ,and above all.. Peaceful New Year

Mac and Mabel

mfesharne

People certainly need to get over & let the healing begin BUT I'll explain the reason I might sound a little pedantic but the truth is I'm actually pointing out an important difference.

The definition of the word citizen (see link below) is " a person who is a member of a particular country and who has rights because of being born there or because of being given rights, or a person who lives in a particular town or city: "

The EU is NOT a country but rather an association of countries & where the difference becomes important is (for example) a Portuguese citizen cannot claim the rights of a German, Spanish or Dutch citizen (in those countries).................... & each country has very different citizen rights to each other & a good example of that is that each of those countries have different reunification of family rules between their own citizens & that of other EU member states & in some cases that can be VERY important.

Another example is how some dodgy websites are trying to flog people EU ID cards etc for a fee when those cards have absolutely no legal significance & are in fact a con & even these petitions are dubious as they give people false hope & the vast majority are simple info harvesting that can result in their personal info being sold on for things such as identity theft etc.

I should perhaps add that I don't care much about Brexit either way as it won't affect me......... but I do care deeply about democracy itself & believe we must respect not only the will of the majority but (even more) those people who came before us & made so many sacrifices (including the ultimate sacrifice) to establish the democracy & freedoms that so many now
enjoy.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/citizen

Mac and Mabel

mfesharne

As you said earlier, people now need to get over it.................... It's going to happen anyway but I don't see any ambiguity in it at all. The referendum delivered a clear majority to leave & the recent GE proved that the will of the people must be respected when it kicked all the democracy denying remainer MPs into touch & gave BJ a clear & significant majority but either way, that doesn't alter the fact that there is no such thing as an EU citizen & the importance of that fact.

toots sweet

Well,
I feel I'm a EU citizen in my heart so therefore there is such a thing. Being pedantic doesn't alter that fact.........

mfesharne

Equally, you can self identify as a blue banana, a penguin, a 5 legged donkey from the Planet Zog or anything else you want but that doesn't make you one.

I appreciate it sounds like I'm being pedantic but I'm trying to point out a VERY important (and correct) point in that being a citizen of one EU member state does not necessarily give you the rights of a citizen of other EU member states.................. My point has nothing to do with Brexit as such but rather is made to point out that subtle though important difference.

Shanorme

...and yet, it would seem there are common 'citizen' rights: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-cont...LEX:12012P/TXT

mfesharne

That refers to the shared rights of holders of EU member state passports or in other words those rights that are common to all EU member states but not all rights are.

For example, a Portuguese citizen or even resident has the right to claim residency for spouse and dependents under the reunification of family rules in Portugal but a Dutch citizen or resident will find it a LOT harder & more restrictive to do the same in Holland..................... and if that Portuguese citizen or resident tried to claim the same in Holland that he/she is entitled to in Portugal, would be told no way, Jose.

Which is why the difference is so important........... In many cases, changing countries can be a life altering experience & in some cases, a life saving experience & by dishing out misinformation you can be (albeit unknowingly) ruining someone's life.

BritInParis

If you want to stay an EU citizen beyond 31st January then you’ll need to acquire the citizenship of another EU member state. Signing petitions, wishing upon a star and any other such nonsense is just that.

Mac and Mabel