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Apply for and Going Through the NHR process

Apply for and Going Through the NHR process

Old Oct 11th 2023, 6:56 pm
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Default Apply for and Going Through the NHR process

Hello All

I am new to the forum, can someone who has been through the NHR process before please help me with the following questions.

My background
I have dual nationality, British (UK passport) and Irish (therefore European passport). I know Portugal reasonably well as I have been coming to Portugal every year for the last 15 years (central Portugal). I have purchased and sold land in Portugal before (so I have a NIF) and I have a number of Portuguese friends. I speak some Portuguese, but naturally, if I come to live in Portugal I intend to become a much better speaker. Therefore I am considering retiring abroad and due to the NHR scheme (and together with my European passport), Portugal would be a natural choice,(I understand the NHR scheme ends in December 2024).

Questions:
  • Has anyone been through the NHR process and either succeeded or failed, and if failed why?
  • I understand you have to go to several interviews and are asked a series of questions (I assume like, why do you want to live in Portugal, and how are you going to support yourself financially)
    what questions do they generally ask?
    Is there a list of standard questions they ask, which I can download to prepare for before the interviews?
    Do you need a personal reference/s, as I have Portuguese friends who would be happy to provide a character reference, is this something they ask for as part of the NHR scheme?
Any other advice on how to approach and proceed/go through the NHR process is most welcome

Thank you in advance, everyone
ErnestB







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Old Oct 11th 2023, 8:38 pm
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Default Re: Apply for and Going Through the NHR process

NHR is nothing to do with residency per se. Its a TAX benefit offered to any new tax resident in Portugal. Criteria is that you have not been tax resident in Portugal in the previous 5 years.
Questions that you mention are to do with applying for a visa or residency itself.But with an Irish passport I do not think there are any interviews as you talk about.
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Old Oct 11th 2023, 9:44 pm
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Default Re: Apply for and Going Through the NHR process

IF your nif is associated with a Portuguese address you may have problems requesting NHR once resident, to be allowed nhr you must have been tax resident elsewhere for 5 years, if you can prove that its simply a request on the finance portal once you have the NIF assigned to your Portuguese address. Use your Irish passport save time
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Old Oct 12th 2023, 3:22 am
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Default Re: Apply for and Going Through the NHR process

Originally Posted by ErnestB
Hello All

I am new to the forum, can someone who has been through the NHR process before please help me with the following questions.

My background
I have dual nationality, British (UK passport) and Irish (therefore European passport). I know Portugal reasonably well as I have been coming to Portugal every year for the last 15 years (central Portugal). I have purchased and sold land in Portugal before (so I have a NIF) and I have a number of Portuguese friends. I speak some Portuguese, but naturally, if I come to live in Portugal I intend to become a much better speaker. Therefore I am considering retiring abroad and due to the NHR scheme (and together with my European passport), Portugal would be a natural choice,(I understand the NHR scheme ends in December 2024).

Questions:
  • Has anyone been through the NHR process and either succeeded or failed, and if failed why?
  • I understand you have to go to several interviews and are asked a series of questions (I assume like, why do you want to live in Portugal, and how are you going to support yourself financially)
    what questions do they generally ask?
    Is there a list of standard questions they ask, which I can download to prepare for before the interviews?
    Do you need a personal reference/s, as I have Portuguese friends who would be happy to provide a character reference, is this something they ask for as part of the NHR scheme?
Any other advice on how to approach and proceed/go through the NHR process is most welcome

Thank you in advance, everyone
ErnestB
I'm interested in where you got the December 2024 date from?
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Old Oct 12th 2023, 7:17 pm
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Default Re: Apply for and Going Through the NHR process

Hello everyone

Thank you very much dingg and wellinever I really appreciate your time

In answer to your questions

1) Regarding my NIF, I use my Portuguese friend's address in Portugal for correspondence from the tax office etc (for convenience only). I personally live and work in the UK and have never lived in Portugal or had employment in Portugal. Therefore in essence I have only ever been tax resident in one country which is the UK

The reason I have a NIF is due to the fact I purchased a small plot of land in 2008, (therefore I needed a NIF). I paid tax at the time I purchased the land, and each year after owning the land there was a small year tax charge of about €125 which I also paid each year.
I sold the land about 2 years ago and made sure all my taxes were up to date, and the finance office has confirmed I have no more tax to pay.

So based on the above, I would believe I cannot be considered as being resident (only short holidays like everyone else), or tax resident (as only paying tax on the land). If anyone thinks this is incorrect kindly let me know

When I obtained my NIF in 2008 at that time I used my UK passport, I do not think this means the Portuguese Government will treat me as a UK citizen (BrexIt rules about staying in Portugal), as I believe they only ask for a passport to confirm your ID.
As mentioned I also have an Irish passport, which logically I would present (together with my NIF) as part of any NHR application.

Thanks again, any input on the above or further advice om NHR would be most welcome


ErnestB
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Old Oct 12th 2023, 7:18 pm
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Default Re: Apply for and Going Through the NHR process

PS

The Portuguese Priminister stated on the news recently he plans to end the NHR at the end of 2024
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Old Oct 12th 2023, 9:23 pm
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Default Re: Apply for and Going Through the NHR process

Originally Posted by ErnestB
Hello everyone

Thank you very much dingg and wellinever I really appreciate your time

In answer to your questions

1) Regarding my NIF, I use my Portuguese friend's address in Portugal for correspondence from the tax office etc (for convenience only). I personally live and work in the UK and have never lived in Portugal or had employment in Portugal. Therefore in essence I have only ever been tax resident in one country which is the UK

The reason I have a NIF is due to the fact I purchased a small plot of land in 2008, (therefore I needed a NIF). I paid tax at the time I purchased the land, and each year after owning the land there was a small year tax charge of about €125 which I also paid each year.
I sold the land about 2 years ago and made sure all my taxes were up to date, and the finance office has confirmed I have no more tax to pay.

So based on the above, I would believe I cannot be considered as being resident (only short holidays like everyone else), or tax resident (as only paying tax on the land). If anyone thinks this is incorrect kindly let me know

When I obtained my NIF in 2008 at that time I used my UK passport, I do not think this means the Portuguese Government will treat me as a UK citizen (BrexIt rules about staying in Portugal), as I believe they only ask for a passport to confirm your ID.
As mentioned I also have an Irish passport, which logically I would present (together with my NIF) as part of any NHR application.

Thanks again, any input on the above or further advice om NHR would be most welcome


ErnestB
You are wrong on many points. If you dont have understanding of tax rules, hire professional accountant. You are tax "resident" in UK and PT, due to your lack of understanding of tax rules.
Rules are not what you think they should be, but what they are written.
As you NIF has been register to PT address for many years, you are not liable for NHR. Furthermore, you can expect tax fines for not declaring tax returns in PT.
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Old Oct 12th 2023, 9:27 pm
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Default Re: Apply for and Going Through the NHR process

Originally Posted by ErnestB
PS

The Portuguese Priminister stated on the news recently he plans to end the NHR at the end of 2024
No, he hasnt said that. Can you post link to your claim?
PM cant change law, he can only lobby for change. It's parliament that can change it, which probably will.
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Old Oct 12th 2023, 11:40 pm
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Default Re: Apply for and Going Through the NHR process

Hello

My Portuguese friend showed me the news client the Prime Minster did following the protests in Lisbon etc recently at the weekend concerning high prices and high rent. Which the protestors are blaming partly on the NHR scheme. Therefore the Prime Minister he plans to end the NHR scheme at the end of 2024 (it was all over the main Portuguese news channels, just do a search). This is a pain for me as ideally I wanted to apply in 2026, however looks like I may have to move this forward now

Thanks all again for your inputs
ErnestB
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Old Oct 13th 2023, 12:30 am
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Default Re: Apply for and Going Through the NHR process

Originally Posted by EU.flag
You are wrong on many points. If you dont have understanding of tax rules, hire professional accountant. You are tax "resident" in UK and PT, due to your lack of understanding of tax rules.
Rules are not what you think they should be, but what they are written.
As you NIF has been register to PT address for many years, you are not liable for NHR. Furthermore, you can expect tax fines for not declaring tax returns in PT.
Tax residency and residency are 2 separate things. Far too often, it's conflated on this forum. Having an NIF number does not make you tax resident.
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Old Oct 13th 2023, 1:19 am
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Default Re: Apply for and Going Through the NHR process

Originally Posted by ErnestB
Hello

My Portuguese friend showed me the news client the Prime Minster did following the protests in Lisbon etc recently at the weekend concerning high prices and high rent. Which the protestors are blaming partly on the NHR scheme. Therefore the Prime Minister he plans to end the NHR scheme at the end of 2024 (it was all over the main Portuguese news channels, just do a search). This is a pain for me as ideally I wanted to apply in 2026, however looks like I may have to move this forward now

Thanks all again for your inputs
ErnestB
December 2024 has not been mentioned in any report and not in Diario de Notices either, the most likely date is 31 December 2023, as the fiscal year runs Jan 1 to Dec 3, so essentially no new entrants in 2024.
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Old Oct 13th 2023, 1:37 am
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Default Re: Apply for and Going Through the NHR process

Originally Posted by Shanorme
Tax residency and residency are 2 separate things. Far too often, it's conflated on this forum. Having an NIF number does not make you tax resident.
But ​​​​ErnestB has admitted that the address with which his NIF is associated is that of his friend, in Portugal. Unless his friend is acting as his fiscal representative he may have difficulty in proving that he hasn't been tax-resident during the preceding 5 years.
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Old Oct 13th 2023, 4:20 am
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Default Re: Apply for and Going Through the NHR process

Thank you everyone for your input it is most appreciated

It looks like a mute point now anyway from what Shanorme was saying. If indeed you have to "apply and be accepted" before the 1st of January 2024

Then there is no time as that is only a month and a half away, and I have not started the process and even if I did tomorrow I could not imagine the finance to get it done so fast.

Regarding, my tax residency proof, I think that should be simple enough for the following reasons

1) yes, I have a NIF but that does not mean I am a tax resident in Portugal every foreign homeowner (regardless if they still own that Portuguese home or not) living back in their own country needs a Portuguese NIF to purchase in the first instance (as I did when I purchased land, now sold).

2) Tax residency is tightly tied to the number of days you do or do not spend in a country in any given tax year. As a non-Portuguese citizen, I simply have not spent enough time in Portugal to be considered tax resident (only short two week holiday, like most tourists)

3) I do not own any property in Portugal, I do not rent any Property in Portugal and I spend 99% of my time at my house in the UK working (easy enough to prove), plus they can check my entry/exit to Portugal via passport entry/exit records

4) I only use my friend's Portuguese address for convenience, I am not living there (postal addresses are common)

Thanks again everyone
ErnestB





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Old Oct 13th 2023, 4:24 am
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Default Re: Apply for and Going Through the NHR process

Logically the upside for the Portuguese looking to buy a property is that removing the NHR scheme should in time, help hold and or reduce house prices and therein rents too (the whole point of the recent protests)

Thanks
Ernest
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Old Oct 13th 2023, 12:04 pm
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Default Re: Apply for and Going Through the NHR process

Originally Posted by ErnestB
Thank you everyone for your input it is most appreciated

It looks like a mute point now anyway from what Shanorme was saying. If indeed you have to "apply and be accepted" before the 1st of January 2024

Then there is no time as that is only a month and a half away, and I have not started the process and even if I did tomorrow I could not imagine the finance to get it done so fast.

Regarding, my tax residency proof, I think that should be simple enough for the following reasons

1) yes, I have a NIF but that does not mean I am a tax resident in Portugal every foreign homeowner (regardless if they still own that Portuguese home or not) living back in their own country needs a Portuguese NIF to purchase in the first instance (as I did when I purchased land, now sold).

2) Tax residency is tightly tied to the number of days you do or do not spend in a country in any given tax year. As a non-Portuguese citizen, I simply have not spent enough time in Portugal to be considered tax resident (only short two week holiday, like most tourists)

3) I do not own any property in Portugal, I do not rent any Property in Portugal and I spend 99% of my time at my house in the UK working (easy enough to prove), plus they can check my entry/exit to Portugal via passport entry/exit records

4) I only use my friend's Portuguese address for convenience, I am not living there (postal addresses are common)

Thanks again everyone
ErnestB

Looks like you're ignoring posts above, some have very useful info.

If your NIF is register at Financas with PT address, then you are PT tax "resident".
However, as others have mentioned, if your friend is acting as tax representative for you, then you are most likely not tax "resident" in PT.

Basically, is your friend acting as your tax rep or not ? What morada fiscal is register on your NIF account, UK or PT?
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