The title of this thread is the title of the story in this week's Portugal News. As I would qualify for this I have a specific interest in it and sent a message to a friend who would also qualify. She replied and said she had already looked into it and that it's sh*te, but will not say why until I see her later this week.

I have read before - and I have a feeling Red Eric commented on something that mentioned the permanent residency for those of us who qualify under the Withdrawal Agreement, but when I asked the nice lady about it at AIMA Lagos she insisted that I would need to speak Portuguese to qualify. I emailed my lawyer about it and she confirmed that there is absolutely no language proficiency required for permanent residency under the Withdrawal Agreement.

Has anyone had a go at this already and if so is it simple and straightforward (which is probably an oxymoron with anything connected to Portuguese bureaucracy)?

Hi Sportpix - with AIMA nothing is simple or straightforward! There is a group on Facebook which is restricted to Withdrawal AGreement (Brexit) people which is very useful and has lots of details of how to go about it, what the current difficulties are, how they are coordinating with the British Embassy, and progress to date. There is so much information, if you join, I encourage you to read lots of the main posts before plunging in. You may even decide to wait a white before applying for Permanent Residency as things are being sorted out as we speak!!
No language requirement under the WA, no need to supply proof of funds, no need to submit a variety of informations that AIMA WERE requesting, and it should be simple to do - but of course, being AIMA it is proving anything but ....... For your information, apparently Faro is the most clued-up office of AIMA ...

the Facebook page is - Permanent Residency for Brits in Portugal under the Withdrawal Agreement - do a search in Facebook and it should bring it up.

Thank you Arquero, this is very good information and I will follow up with it. I don’t do Facebook myself but my wife does so we will have a gander on her computer. Your help is much appreciated.

For reference only, AIMA has a list of requirements that need to be fulfilled on their website, currently only available in Portuguese.

Given what Arquero (hi Arquero - welcome to the forum from me ) says above, it's obviously well worth having a dekko at what the British Embassy is saying and doing, and maybe delaying a bit before diving in to the process. I wouldn't fully agree that evidence of means of subsistence is forbidden by the WA for this process, but they do seem to have moved considerably beyond what was required pre-Brexit in terms of documentation for acquiring a document attesting to permanent resident status. If the Embassy's pushing back against that a bit, that's good for those to whom it will apply (on the basis that in some circs this would quite an onerous and intrusive set of documentation to be requesting (albeit not all required in every circumstance), which would take some while to collate, or, possibly, not be all that straightforward to obtain).

>Hello RedE - nice to be back!
Regrettably the list you provide there from AIMA is precisely what the Facebook WA group has been fighting against - it is basically the list required for D7 and other visa related applications for permanent residence and nothing at all relevant to the WA agreement. Since PT has signed up to the WA agreement at the time of Brexit, and has put it into PT law, they were supposedly in breach of the WA agreement on at least two counts - 1. not giving any means to actually apply for PR under the WA agreement as the 5 years residency was achieved and 2. demanding a list of documents which is totally erroneous in relation to the WA requirements. So the Admins on the Facebook Group have been very active in correcting PT/AIMA's attitude. Now there is access via the Contactanos form in the AIMA website, and not only that, the requirement to provide 9 .pdfs attached has been reduced to "4-9 documents" and a faulty submission process in that form is being "fixed" at the moment! One of the problems with AIMA has been that they have been so far behind in all applications regarding residency, since taking over from SEF, that they have recently only been taking expired Residency temporary cards as ready for renewal - because of the cock-ups with SEF and the pandemic nearly all WA temporary cards are not "up" till 2027 - two years beyond the 5 years minimal stay. In addition there are a lot of WA people who were here long before Brexit as EU citizens and who were only given "temporary" WA cards and who are now well-overdue for their improved status. Of course, under EU law and the WA agreement, in theory you do not need a card to prove your status - it is "automatic" after 5 years of legal residence. However tell that to the Border staff and Government officials when you have been out of the country for too long acording to the Residency card that you do have - restrictions in time allowed abroad is seriously affecting some WA folk.

Sportpix - I suggest since Mrs Sportpix is not an applicant under the WA scheme, she signs into the Facebook Group as if she was you as they only admit WA applicants to try to keep the group relevant to the problem in hand! It is just a matter of ticking boxes ....

I cannot remember the last time anyone said, have a dekko!! Love it. Good English, in my humble view. There was a schoolboy being interviewed on tv this morning about the quality and content of current reading materials in UK schools, and I think he probably uttered about 60 words, 25 of what was the word, like. How did this simple four letter word destroy the English language? Don’t get me wrong, I like other four letter words 😀

Not forgetting "I mean" at the start of most sentences, "you know" several times in the same sentence, "it was like wow", etc,etc.

This is the form in the AIMA site under Contactanos
Formulário de Contacto
Selecione o tipo de asunto in the first box - go right down to BREXIT
Subtipo - select Pedido etc which is indeed the only one on offer.

fill in email - they will send an email to you to confirm it is correct and you respond to that with the Codigo it gives you there.

Next is where you are directed to a page similar to the one that RedE has posted but I hope it has been amended somewhat. Note that it says that minimum 4 items are now to be submitted and we have found that if you try to submit more, it submits by itself!! ooops - no chance to review or correct! We hope they will be correcting that problem soon ...
It has to be done in the original Portuguese language, so do not be tempted to do Translate on it, docs have to be .pdf and less that 1Mb each.

You cannot realise an error and try a new version - it recognises that you have already "submitted".
Do it on a computer, not a mobile phone! Do not try it from outside PT - even via VPN is apparently dodgy.

I do encourage any WA applicants for permanent residence to join the Facebook Group (I cannot post the URL as only just rejoined Brit ExP Forum) - very knowledgeable and really trying hard to get the whole thing sorted out.
Permanent Residency for Brits in Portugal under the Withdrawal Agreement

Oooff!

That's ....err ... interesting. I can easily imagine scenarios where people might not be able to provide that many.

RedE - the basics are
Passport
CRUE (if available as EU citizen before BREXIT)
Residency Card (temporary)
and another - perhaps cert of Fiscal Domicile from Finanças or IRS return or S1 for UK pensioners or Social Security number in PT, possible also the A4 letter with the QR code that SEF issued in the interim before the Temp cards were inserted.

WA requires proof of ID, proof of "legal" residence in PT for 5 years .... and otherwise things get a bit vague. No proof of subsistence (already established 5+years ago), no language proof requirement as admitted to PT under EU citizen rules originally), no employment history ,,,, etc, etc, Best option seems to be to send them 4 items and then take all and every document you have pertaining to life in PT when you eventually get an appointment. Recent info in the Facebook group is that only one appointment date has so far been issued after this application system used - for mid-May!

One reason suggested for making the request now/very near future, is that come 2027 when the SEF cards become expired, there will be a mad rush to get the permanent residency formalised with an awful lot of people and families (children have to apply separately!) all applying at the same time. Also meanwhile some people are suffering difficulties as they wait for formal documentation of their current state and rights as Permanent Residents of the EU.

Thank you for this Facebook Group recommendation. I have joined the group straight away. In my opinion, it would be best to wait until AIMA gets its system sorted out. Theoretically, the change from temporary residencia to permanent (10 years) residencia should be automatic.

Bill B - I agree with your sentiments!
Can you post the URL for the Group - I am restricted!! - just so other WA people can find it easily. As the Group Admin fold say "the more the merrier" and the more the authorities will take notice of the Group's pleas and recommendations!

Thanks for the response. I'll be interested to know what transpires via the Facebook group or elsewhere with regard to this process. As I'm sure there will be others visiting this forum, who possibly don't use Facebook, it'll be good to have a parallel conversation going on on here.

Personally, I think the above is a rather liberal interpretation of what the page I snipped from above says. In my rather more literal reading I see them wanting passport for ID, residence document for evidence of registration plus 2 others, which would constitute proof of the minimum required presence in PT for the maintenance of continuous residence, and means of subsistence (which they make clear is a requirement in the text above the required documents list).

They are very specific about the exact documentation - I don't see what purpose an S1 form serves in this context, especially as it's not one they mention. They also don't mention the certificate of fiscal domicile or the Social Security number- what they are specifying on those fronts, amongst other possibles to choose from, are 5 years' tax returns and 5 years' SS contributions, which I would think would be for a specific reason not satisfied by the certificate(s) or SSID in themselves. (Not that the contributions criteria would apply to everybody, of course. Only those in work).

Unless the required docs list that accompanies the actual formulário is significantly different to the one I posted above?

Given the last line of the AIMA info page - "submissions which don't fulfil the requirements will not be considered" - I would be wanting to ensure that I got the right 4 on the application and not submit (eg) 2 residence documents where only one is necessary and sufficient.

[QUOTE=Red Eric;13338183]Thanks for the response. I'll be interested to know what transpires via the Facebook group or elsewhere with regard to this process. As I'm sure there will be others visiting this forum, who possibly don't use Facebook, it'll be good to have a parallel conversation going on on here.

Hopefully the Facebook action group will be successful, through the British Embassy, in persuading the Portuguese Government and AIMA to follow the Withdrawal Agreement and simplify the application process. The Facebook group admins have listed the areas where AIMA is exceeding the requirements for changing from temporary to permanent (10 year) residencia and briefed the Embassy. Several files are available on the site which explain the situation.

RedE - the problem is that the list you posted above has since been debunked by the British Embassy in PT with the Foreign Office, via the EU at the request of the Admin of the Facebook Page - that list is wrong and this has been admitted as such by AIMA as I understand it and the requirement to send minimum 9 pdfs to fill in the form (which corresponded with the 9 items listed?) has now been reduced to 4 but not specifically which ones!!! Clarity will come soon - I hope. It is a mess and very much in process of being resolved. That list was taken directly from the requirements under D7 and other third country applications for residents NOT what is required for WA. In fact under the WA as long as legal residence for 5 years has been achieved since arrival as a prospective resident, permanent residency is guaranteed but Portugal is omitting to provide a document so that WA residents can show their current status.