Cops are worth as much as burger flippers
Jul 24th 2010, 12:08 am
#16
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Re: Cops are worth as much as burger flippers
Jean Charles de Menezes & Christopher Alder. As the latter lay dying on the floor in the custody suite, his murderers were heard CLEARLY making monkey noises by the station CCTV cameras (did I mention that Mr Alder was black?).
Go on then I'm all ears, but I think I will be waiting for a long time!
So I'm an idiot am I? What have you based that assumption on? I see you fly off the handle & lose your temper very easily Stephen, hardly the type of quality required in a police officer is it? However as this most recent of cases shows, it is an all too common trait.
The decision not to prosecute was based on 2 things. Firstly, had it been a member of society commiting the offence, he would've been arrested & charged of "suspicion of..............." before his release, the case would've then been built afterwards. Secondly, two pathologists said Mr Tomlinson died of internal bleeding, the 3rd autopsy was carried out by a pathologist who is under investigation for other matters. I'm sorry but your definition of hard evidence is very differnet to mine.
You're quite right I don't work in the legal profession (neither would I want to). But then I don't need to. I used a solicitor once when GMP tried to fit me up & he lost the case. I was so disgusted by his performance that I went to crown court myself to appeal the conviction.............. and won!
the next time BTP tried to fit me up, I didn't bother with a solicitor at all & represented myself from the start. Funny how a man who's only legal knowledge was obtained from google (moi) can single handedly take on a crown prosecuter and three serving police officers & win don't you think?
No I wouldn't be the first to call you because it's a waste of time (other than to get a crime number for my insurance of course). Again I'm speaking from experience here.
I'm glad I make you sick Steven, because every man and his dog has seen the footage, Mr Tomlinson was doing nothing wrong & was attacked without provocation by a man who you unreservedly defend............ says a lot for the sort of man you are doesn't it? But it says even more for the type of bobby you are!
Without any consideration for your own safety did you say? So why did it take a week to track down Mr Moat? Oh yeah I remember now, it was unsafe to go get him because he threatened to kill police & you called upon the HS&E at work act 1974...................
I laugh when police say they have the support of the majority, what is this statement based upon? A facebook page last week attracted more than 30,000 people within 24 hours. last week at Newcastle United v Carlisle United both sets of fans were heard chanting Raoul Moat's name, it would seem you don't have quite as much support as you would like to think.
Go on then I'm all ears, but I think I will be waiting for a long time!
So I'm an idiot am I? What have you based that assumption on? I see you fly off the handle & lose your temper very easily Stephen, hardly the type of quality required in a police officer is it? However as this most recent of cases shows, it is an all too common trait.
The decision not to prosecute was based on 2 things. Firstly, had it been a member of society commiting the offence, he would've been arrested & charged of "suspicion of..............." before his release, the case would've then been built afterwards. Secondly, two pathologists said Mr Tomlinson died of internal bleeding, the 3rd autopsy was carried out by a pathologist who is under investigation for other matters. I'm sorry but your definition of hard evidence is very differnet to mine.
You're quite right I don't work in the legal profession (neither would I want to). But then I don't need to. I used a solicitor once when GMP tried to fit me up & he lost the case. I was so disgusted by his performance that I went to crown court myself to appeal the conviction.............. and won!
the next time BTP tried to fit me up, I didn't bother with a solicitor at all & represented myself from the start. Funny how a man who's only legal knowledge was obtained from google (moi) can single handedly take on a crown prosecuter and three serving police officers & win don't you think?
No I wouldn't be the first to call you because it's a waste of time (other than to get a crime number for my insurance of course). Again I'm speaking from experience here.
I'm glad I make you sick Steven, because every man and his dog has seen the footage, Mr Tomlinson was doing nothing wrong & was attacked without provocation by a man who you unreservedly defend............ says a lot for the sort of man you are doesn't it? But it says even more for the type of bobby you are!
Without any consideration for your own safety did you say? So why did it take a week to track down Mr Moat? Oh yeah I remember now, it was unsafe to go get him because he threatened to kill police & you called upon the HS&E at work act 1974...................
I laugh when police say they have the support of the majority, what is this statement based upon? A facebook page last week attracted more than 30,000 people within 24 hours. last week at Newcastle United v Carlisle United both sets of fans were heard chanting Raoul Moat's name, it would seem you don't have quite as much support as you would like to think.
In among all you are saying is the real reason you dont seem to like the police, found yourself on the wrong side of the law once or twice didnt you?
Its unfortunate that you didnt learn from those experiences or perhaps accept some of the blame for whatever it was you did..
Its also quite sad that you sympathise with a murderer, it does say a lot about you...how about you take some of all this anti-police energy and murderer sympathy and give it to his victims, they deserve it...
Jul 24th 2010, 1:35 am
#17
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Re: Cops are worth as much as burger flippers
You seem to get in allot of trouble. I find it hard to believe that different police officers from different incidents are all trying to 'fit you up,' usually people who come up with this excuse are people who have done the wrong thing, and would rather blame the police than accept some responsibility for their actions. As for winning an appeal, or winning a case in court, the whole system is so heavily bent in favor of the defendant, it really means nothing.
I have to agree with your point here Baz - the whole of the judicial system in the UK is heavily weighted in favour of the defendant.
To Barristers and the like, every court case is viewed like a game of chess - they oppose each other in the courtroom, then go for lunch together!! I once stood in court just after an assault case had been adjourned for lunch, and heard two barristers laughing about the victim having his ear bitten off by a Hepatitus infected thug !!
As for the age old 'they fitted me up' defence - I wish I had a pound for every time I have heard that, I would have my own paradise island by now - with helicopter !!
I think those who are so avidly anti police forget about all the good work done by police - I wonder who they would call if one of their family were raped or murdered ???!!!
Dread - just a point
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Jul 24th 2010, 6:26 am
#18
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Re: Cops are worth as much as burger flippers
You seem to get in allot of trouble. I find it hard to believe that different police officers from different incidents are all trying to 'fit you up,' usually people who come up with this excuse are people who have done the wrong thing, and would rather blame the police than accept some responsibility for their actions. As for winning an appeal, or winning a case in court, the whole system is so heavily bent in favor of the defendant, it really means nothing.
For your information, my last case was won because I persued CCTV evidence to prove my innocence. Something your friends tried to avoid. My appeal was won again on CCTV footage. I proved that they had not contacted a private company to obtain CCTV footage, which the professional standards branch claimed they had done before the original trial.
As for accepting responsibility for my actions, why would I persue CCTV footage, while the police lie about it's existance? Why is it police always side with police regardless of facts? None of you have any reason to disbelieve my comments............... but instinct tells you to side with your colleagues! If you want me to email you any of the case history then please pm me.
Jul 24th 2010, 6:29 am
#19
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Re: Cops are worth as much as burger flippers
In among all you are saying is the real reason you dont seem to like the police, found yourself on the wrong side of the law once or twice didnt you?
Its unfortunate that you didnt learn from those experiences or perhaps accept some of the blame for whatever it was you did..
Its also quite sad that you sympathise with a murderer, it does say a lot about you...how about you take some of all this anti-police energy and murderer sympathy and give it to his victims, they deserve it...
Its unfortunate that you didnt learn from those experiences or perhaps accept some of the blame for whatever it was you did..
Its also quite sad that you sympathise with a murderer, it does say a lot about you...how about you take some of all this anti-police energy and murderer sympathy and give it to his victims, they deserve it...
Can you copy & paste please where I have said or even suggested that I sympathise with a murderer? You are not in court trying to make charges stick to an innocent bystander so please try to keep your statements factual in future.
Jul 24th 2010, 6:34 am
#20
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As for the age old 'they fitted me up' defence - I wish I had a pound for every time I have heard that, I would have my own paradise island by now - with helicopter !!
I think those who are so avidly anti police forget about all the good work done by police - I wonder who they would call if one of their family were raped or murdered ???!!!
I think those who are so avidly anti police forget about all the good work done by police - I wonder who they would call if one of their family were raped or murdered ???!!!
Jul 24th 2010, 5:37 pm
#21
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Re: Cops are worth as much as burger flippers
As for the getting into a lot of trouble quote, is this age of quotas & targets you know full well you don't have to do anything wrong to get knicked nowadays! I really do love the bit about the legal system being so heavily in favour of the defendent. You can give a conviction out now on the street with an £80 fine, that makes it easier for you not us.
Tim
Jul 24th 2010, 6:19 pm
#22
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Re: Cops are worth as much as burger flippers
I'm afraid it is mate, it purely speeds up the court process & increases convictions to decieve the public into thinking our streets are being made safer that's all.
A mate of mine paid £80 for urinating in the street. He only found out how serious it was when he applied for a job that required a CRB check. He was rejected for failing to disclose a public order offence.....................
Another mate was kicked out of the England supporters club, also for urinating in the street and paying the £80 fine. You are not allowed to travel abroad with England if you have any public order convictions within the last three years.
A mate of mine paid £80 for urinating in the street. He only found out how serious it was when he applied for a job that required a CRB check. He was rejected for failing to disclose a public order offence.....................
Another mate was kicked out of the England supporters club, also for urinating in the street and paying the £80 fine. You are not allowed to travel abroad with England if you have any public order convictions within the last three years.
Jul 25th 2010, 12:05 am
#23
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Re: Cops are worth as much as burger flippers
I'm afraid it is mate, it purely speeds up the court process & increases convictions to decieve the public into thinking our streets are being made safer that's all.
A mate of mine paid £80 for urinating in the street. He only found out how serious it was when he applied for a job that required a CRB check. He was rejected for failing to disclose a public order offence.....................
Another mate was kicked out of the England supporters club, also for urinating in the street and paying the £80 fine. You are not allowed to travel abroad with England if you have any public order convictions within the last three years.
A mate of mine paid £80 for urinating in the street. He only found out how serious it was when he applied for a job that required a CRB check. He was rejected for failing to disclose a public order offence.....................
Another mate was kicked out of the England supporters club, also for urinating in the street and paying the £80 fine. You are not allowed to travel abroad with England if you have any public order convictions within the last three years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed_P...s_for_Disorder
Tim
Jul 25th 2010, 12:58 am
#24
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Re: Cops are worth as much as burger flippers
In in my 40's now dreadsoc & don't have a criminal record. But I'm also a football supporter which is almost a criminal offence on it's own. In all my years foolowing football I have seen countless attempted fit ups, assaults from police on innocent members of society & been on the receiving end myself more than enough times. the reason the fit up defence is so prevelent is because it's true & if you wnat people to consider any good work you may do, you first have to stop doing the bad stuff!
You may well have had bad experiences with police - I don't know - it certainly was not with me. I have even aknowledged that like every organisation, the police has some bad apples and idiots, but that said there are a hell of a lot of good ones. You use the phrase " if YOU want people to consider any good work YOU do, YOU first have to stop doing the bad stuff"
I have NEVER fitted anyone up, nor do I lie or commit acts of dishonesty. I have always exercised fairness regardless of who I am dealing with.
Unfortunately you are guilty of tarring all with the same brush because of a few incidents you may or may not have seen or experienced, and that has now become a deep rooted prejudice in you. You obviously have your reasons for that - but please do not prejudice me until you have met me and seen me operate !
I would also have to challenge your comment that the fit up defence is prevalent and always true - I have heard it stated many times when it is anything but true !! I am not stating this because I have a subconscious need to protect the police, I am stating it because evidence on the times I have had this defence offered has proved otherwise (eg cctv, presence of semen and injuries on a rape victim, non accidental injury to a child ....... I am sure you get the picture). Perhaps you instinctively believe every person who says this because of your experiences - but then again perhaps not - only you know that, and of course my suggesting this to you is no different from your earlier post where you suggest that every police officer believes things just to protect their own for the same subconscious reason! That could go both ways couldn't it? Take your comment re urinating in the street for instance.... you think your mates were treated unfairly, but this is actually a criminal offence, whether you like it or not, and when done against someones wall or fence, it is unpleasant for them to clean up (especially if the urinator has been on the beer - it stinks).
Let's just accept that you hate the police for whatever reasons you have - but let's not get into personal allegations against those like myself whom you have never met.
Still that aside - we do have a similar views of solicitors !!
Whether you support a good footie team or not - well.......
Dread - Fair's fair
x
Last edited by dreadsoc; Jul 25th 2010 at 1:08 am. Reason: spelling
Jul 25th 2010, 6:13 am
#25
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Re: Cops are worth as much as burger flippers
Read this link and all will be answered. Obviously if you contest the ticket and go to court you could get convicted if found guilty, but if paid within the allotted time it's NOT a conviction.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed_P...s_for_Disorder
Tim
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed_P...s_for_Disorder
Tim
"PNDs for recordable offences are recorded on the Police National Computer however and may be disclosed on an Enhanced Criminal Records Disclosure issued by the Criminal Records Bureau"
So be warned people, a fixed penalty ticket is recorded & will be used against you.
Jul 25th 2010, 6:32 am
#26
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Re: Cops are worth as much as burger flippers
Would you not agree that tarring is human nature Dread? If you are bitten by a dog will you fear all dogs? If you get food poisoning at one branch of Pizza Hut will you avoid every single Pizza Hut in the country? If your only experience of people or organisations is bad, then can you really be expected to treat other people from within that organistaion with an open mind?
No Dread the defence is not always true & I wouldn't suggest that, what I am saying is it's prevalent because it happens a lot.
Of course urinating in the street stinks & should be stamped out, but should it really be held against you in years to come? Should it really stop a hard working dedicated nurse from getting a job?
Please don't think I have a deep rooted hatred of police in general, I have huge respect fro Spanish police, mainly because you only have a problem with them if you do something wrong and if you are the victim of crime they properly investigate it. having said that, mess with them at your peril!
In my last two years living in the UK I was stopped no fewer than seven times in my car for 'routine checks', but when my garage was broken into and a very large quantity of tools stolen, the police didn't have the resources to view the CCTV cameras that existed at both ends of the street.
I've not made any personal allegations to you Dread, you'll notice that certain individuals above have automatically let rip at me above purely for having the nerve to criticise what they do. People that lose their cool so easily on an internet forum really should not be on the streets!
Of course urinating in the street stinks & should be stamped out, but should it really be held against you in years to come? Should it really stop a hard working dedicated nurse from getting a job?
Please don't think I have a deep rooted hatred of police in general, I have huge respect fro Spanish police, mainly because you only have a problem with them if you do something wrong and if you are the victim of crime they properly investigate it. having said that, mess with them at your peril!
In my last two years living in the UK I was stopped no fewer than seven times in my car for 'routine checks', but when my garage was broken into and a very large quantity of tools stolen, the police didn't have the resources to view the CCTV cameras that existed at both ends of the street.
I've not made any personal allegations to you Dread, you'll notice that certain individuals above have automatically let rip at me above purely for having the nerve to criticise what they do. People that lose their cool so easily on an internet forum really should not be on the streets!
Jul 25th 2010, 9:34 am
#27
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Re: Cops are worth as much as burger flippers
I've provided 2 recent examples for you Stevie but I'm still waiting for your examples. I notice you're from Manchester so you may find the letters I post later embarassing!
Jul 25th 2010, 10:07 am
#28
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Re: Cops are worth as much as burger flippers
Thanks for the link Tim, here's an extract;
"PNDs for recordable offences are recorded on the Police National Computer however and may be disclosed on an Enhanced Criminal Records Disclosure issued by the Criminal Records Bureau"
So be warned people, a fixed penalty ticket is recorded & will be used against you.
"PNDs for recordable offences are recorded on the Police National Computer however and may be disclosed on an Enhanced Criminal Records Disclosure issued by the Criminal Records Bureau"
So be warned people, a fixed penalty ticket is recorded & will be used against you.
Tim
Jul 25th 2010, 10:18 am
#29
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Re: Cops are worth as much as burger flippers
I'm sorry that the picture below is in 2 halves but I don't have an A3 scanner. Why is there a specific target (1600) for anti-social behaiour? What if you don't witness the required number of incidents? Someone urinating in the street is not targetted by polcie because it's disgusting, he's targetted because there are quota's to fill!
Last edited by licinius; Jul 25th 2010 at 10:21 am.
Jul 25th 2010, 10:46 am
#30
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Re: Cops are worth as much as burger flippers
Yes, thank you for your reply. However I must admit I am not one bit surprised about the examples you used. You have again based your limited insignificant opinion on the little information available to public. You do not know what went on in both these cases yet you add to your hatred for the Police based on the little you do know.
I have many examples for you and would be here all day. I will give you one example to keep you ticking over. The recent example where the Custody Sgt was dismissed for allowing his custody staff to assault a prisoner springs to mind.
I am not here to debate whether this was the right or wrong decision with the likes of you. However this is an example of where the Police were prosecuted.
I do notice that your hatred of the Police is based on incidents where we have seemed to have done our job. Yes urinating on the street is a minor offence, however I have no doubt in my mind that if it was to happen to your property you would be the first to rant on about how little the Police do.
Yes I do defend the Police as I have seen many many times injustices occur where criminals have got off scott free and victims treated unfairly by the courts.
I have also seen many examples of the media jumping on something when they have not got a clue about the circumstances of the incident.
Now if you refer to my original statement, at no point have I said that cops who break the law should not be prosecuted. However it is clearly evident that you still believe that the life on mars era exists.
Cops have never been under more scrutiny than they have today. I am sure you will be happy to hear this.
Finally, I notice you have only lived in the UK for the past 2 years. It is good to see you have based your extensive experience of the cops on these 2 years!!!
Thank you for your heavily researched opinions.
P.S I will be happy to read your future comments. I am sure they will be based on heavily influenced media comments.