applied for my E grade
 

having ben qualified 18months I have just applied for an E grade. I work in ITU and was persuaded by my senior mentor to go for it. I am sure it will be a good move for me but I doubt it will mean a lot in OZ!!!!has anyone got any tips for me...I wish this one was over the phone!!!! :)

Re: applied for my E grade
 

No advice but can wish you luck. Tried to give karma but it said I have to spread it around first!

Re: applied for my E grade
 

Go for it and best of luck to you! The experience will help you in Oz surely, even if they don't recognise the pay increase. My hubby is currently a G grade here in the UK but is only going to a level one post in Brisbane as that's all they would offer. Hopefully he'll be upgraded when they see his wealth of knowledge and experience in action.

Re: applied for my E grade
 

go for it...... the only advice I would say is give it your best shot. Good luck :)

Re: applied for my E grade
 

Hi Jackie,
i wish you good luck, just keep calm and think about the questions. the questions will probably relate to what you are already doing and questions about being a supervisor and mentor for junior staff and students.Read the job description and the job specification it usually tells you on there what they will expect from you. Hope this helps if i can give you anymore advice let me know.
Dawn :) :)

Re: applied for my E grade
 

Good luck with the interview s/nurse! Take a big deep breath and go for it - they wouldn't of put you forward if they didn't think you could do it would they.

On a different note with Agenda for change D & E grades will be on the same band anyway - I was so proud when I got my E Grade in community last March but am very disheatened that we will be all lumped on to the same band as a newly qualified nurse - anyone else feel this way? I believe that community staff nurses (DN support) are going to be put on band 4 which is the lowest band for a RGN - unfair when you consider that we work on our own unsupported for large parts of the day and that we manage the caseload in the absence of the team leader G grade (or H grade in my case!)

Sorry to put a downer on things but makes you wonder if being an E grade will mean anything in a few months?! :confused:

Glad we are off to Oz as the system here is getting me down - its unfair that my 4 years as a qualified nurse aren't recognised until I go off and do some fancy degree.

God what have I started now!!!!!

Lynn :beer:

Re: applied for my E grade
 

Hi Lynn,
I have found that resentment is growing on our unit due to AFC. Many of the current D grades are doing the same work as an E. They would normally be on an E by now but there is a jobs freeze so have been told that they can't have one. Also when agenda for change comes in they can't move up the ladder unless a post becomes available. There isn't a lot of movement off our unit as it is a great place to work. It would mean the girls applying to other areas which they don't want to do. It seems very unfair. The girls are now saying that it's putting them off doing a degree etc. as they feel that it wont be recognised. Like you I'm glad to be getting out of it. My form went in the bin :D

Re: applied for my E grade
 

Hey, good luck with your interview!! You will be fine. Just remain calm, as Kelman said. If you mentor didn't think you were capable, she wouldn't be encouraging you to go for it. Listen, the interviewers are not there to trick you or catch you out. Having interviewed on many an occasion, it can be quite nerve-wrecking for the actual interviewer. A good interviewer will want to bring out the best in you. Additionally, it's not always just down to what happens on the day, your references and prior experience goes a long way.

I also wanted to add a couple of things about my experience of nursing abroad. I've been in NZ now for a year (returning back to the UK in July though). Now, without sounding patronising, I think if you are a D or E grade, you will cope ok wherever you end up. The problem for me is that I'm a G grade District Nursing Sister (11 years post reg experience, 1 honours degree, 1 post-grad specialist practitioner degree, 1 post-grad diploma and dual qualified-this all counted for nothing-the Level 4 Kiwi nurses don't have half of this). It's been just so frustrating to practice in the way I did in the UK. I was going to complain about the fact I have been working as a level 3 nurse in NZ, but then I saw Robbo2's post about her husband going down to a level 1 in OZ :scared: Quite frankly, I've not nothing to complain about. Robbo, I really hope your hubby copes with this drop. I certainly haven't and it's the main reason I'm returning home. I no longer have the autonomy I had, cant undertake my nurse prescribing, no longer in charge of a caseload, no multidisciplinary collaborations with the GP's and the rest of the primary/secondary health care teams and I have to answer to a "charge nurse" who has never done a day's work in the community in her life. What's worse is that she is from Leeds and has not once asked me how I've coped with the dramatic change to my role. Even though she has never worked in the community, she's bound to have a rough idea what DN's do. Oh, sorry about this rant...just getting things off my chest!!!

Look, despite the fact in terms of clinical development, this has got to have been THE ultimate worst move I've ever made. However, I have gained so much in terms of personal development and the most important thing is, I've learned about a wide variety of cultures, most of whom I'll never meet in my life again. So, for that reason alone, I don't regret doing the move but I can't stay here as I'm getting more and more clinically deskilled as each day passes.

I really wish everyone well with their intended moves. It's a great experience. It doesn't matter what way things turn out because you will never lose and it looks great on a CV!! All the very best of wishes, Tayberry :o

Re: applied for my E grade
 

Thanks for all the replys folks. We have just been assimilated to AFC, looks like if I do get my E grade it's only approx £500 a year more than I get now!!!!!oh well just think of the status!!!!!! :)

Re: applied for my E grade
 

[QUOTE=lynnlovessun]Good luck with the interview s/nurse! Take a big deep breath and go for it - they wouldn't of put you forward if they didn't think you could do it would they.

On a different note with Agenda for change D & E grades will be on the same band anyway - I was so proud when I got my E Grade in community last March but am very disheatened that we will be all lumped on to the same band as a newly qualified nurse - anyone else feel this way? I believe that community staff nurses (DN support) are going to be put on band 4 which is the lowest band for a RGN - unfair when you consider that we work on our own unsupported for large parts of the day and that we manage the caseload in the absence of the team leader G grade (or H grade in my case!)

Sorry to put a downer on things but makes you wonder if being an E grade will mean anything in a few months?! :confused:

Glad we are off to Oz as the system here is getting me down - its unfair that
I was given a D grade prior to my conversion from E.N to R.N my collegues are on C grades. How can nurses of twenty years experience be put in the same banding 5 with nurses who have none. It is so unfair :mad: Can't wait to finish this degree and file for my P.R in Australia, should have done it years ago.Keep smiling :) and look forward to sun and beach and lots of :beer: Frustrated

Re: applied for my E grade
 

I am currently an F grade an ITU and have yet to be banded, our D and E grades have got a band 5 so we are likly to get a 6. Has everyone heard of the KSF ( knowledge and skills framewoek) that we will have to work with too....basically its a skills and competency framework split into core dimensions......that will be used in conjunction with appraisals. It certainly has caused alot of uneasyness with our unit along with being told that we have to rotate to HDU ....i am hoping it gets better :(

Anyway good luck with your E grade application......i have some E grade interview questions if you are interested...i had my E for 6 years but basically thet asked alot a clinical questions.....so brush up!!

Re: applied for my E grade
 

If you could e mail me them that would be great
[email protected]

Re: applied for my E grade
 

I have them in the loft....with all my other memorabila :D

we are away this weekend so as soon as i get back i will get hubby to get the box down....would that be ok

Re: applied for my E grade
 

lovely, thank you

Re: applied for my E grade
 

Hi

off topic a bit but as i understand it all nurses are in band 5, thats d to f, while g to I are band 6-7.

I work in AE, im an e grade, on about half way through band 5, newly qualified D's at the bottom and F's at the top of band 5.

we had a problem in our dept, in that for AFC the skill of suturing puts you in band 6, many of the E grades suture, so out dept has taken that skill from us saying it is no longer in our job description. they argued they would have to pay all 15 e grades the same pay as f or g grades.

I do think they have made AfC extremely confusing to make people not fight against it, the whole process of agreeing job description seems very difficult, im just going along with it and looking forward to leaving at the end of the year like a rat leaving a sinking ship.

dave

Re: applied for my E grade
 

Hi Dave you have been treated really badly over the suturing - one minute you are doing it the next they are taking your skills away from you.

In glasgow Scotland we still haven't even had AFC introduced!!!!! It been all talk and every date gets put back further and further - we were meant to get backdated pay to October 2004 but that hasn't happened either.

In my case i'm 4.5 years qualified - I get no extra holiday's with AFC whereas my G grade collegue (DN sister) gets almost an extra 2 weeks I think! She is very lazy by the way, so how do you think that makes me feel!!?

Like you the words fleeing, sinking, and ship spring to mind :rolleyes:

Lynn :beer:

Re: applied for my E grade
 

lol true it is a sinking ship, did you work during your trainig part time, cos i did which brings my nhs service upto 5 years, ive only been qualified for 2 years but included part time bank hca work as a student.

therfore i get more holiday entitlement. its not much but better than not having it.

check it out :beer:

Re: applied for my E grade
 

Hi Lynn,

Read your thread and can totally sympathise with you. I am a district nursing sister (qualified in 2002) have worked for 2 years on less pay than an E grade and 1 year on the same wage. With agenda for change I will still be on the same rate of pay as an E grade for next two years (in theory - have applied to go to canada) I work on evenings three times a week (F) no supervision, covering rapid response assessments and managing a team of 20. It just a joke. So you see even having a degree doesnt help!!!Hopefully things will be better when we get our PR.

Sue

Re: applied for my E grade
 

Hi,

think how they are going to get round the skills is by 'gateways' at certain points so what you might find is that before you can progresseway you will have thro' the gateway you will have to have aquired certain skills.


Chris

Re: applied for my E grade
 

yeah they started that in st georges london when i worked there. you had a progression agreement, with core skills and competentcies. So these were agreed during appraisals, once you had your profile saying youve done a b and c you could go up a grade, effectively ending the whole interview process. Also you should have to wait for a post to come up, you will progress in your current post.

well thats how its supposed to work i think although it might all be nhs political spin??

Re: applied for my E grade
 

not sure about the spin but thats how our managers here are selling it, still got to see evidnce of agenda for change in Lincolnshire we've not been awarded it yet still waiting!!!! might get the backpay in time for Oz

Chris

Re: applied for my E grade
 

Hi im an accountant in the NHS (Booo!!, i know i know) anyway, i have some knowledge of AFC. Most of whats been said above is correct, and D and E grades will no longer be separated by Grades, and as said they will sit nicely in Band 5 I think. Anyway, as also said progression will be through the KSF and a "Gateway" is a natural stop. If you dont develop or aquire new skills, there you will stay, but if developed and agreed by line management (this will be the grey area), then you would go thgouht the gateway. But i was under the impression the gateways were within the bands and not between bands, but i may be wrong.

This will make life hard for me to keep tight establishment and skill mix control on my wards if the managements and KSF is flawed. and before anybody jumps down my throat, that is my remit, and i have to help the wards stay within budget. So im not going to get into politics here, whether i agree or not is not the point. Anyway as for the Auz system, im worried that progression is by time served. although sounds fair, what about those talented individuals against those not so. Anyway my partner is newly qualified, so i guess it wont affect her too much.

Oh and another boring point on AFC, they tried to bring in the enhancement changes recently whcih meant that instead of getting say 33% for a saturday shift, the nurse would get a fixed % for the year based on the previous 6 months shift pattern. Anyway, here in Wales, when this was first announced, my partners G Grade Sister all of a sudden started working sats and sundays most weeks :rolleyes: then when this new system got thrown out by the Union, she reverted to her 9-5. Of course she never explained anything about AFC to the ward, and my partner knew nothing about AFC...makes me laugh at the hypocracy. Anyway, AFC is generaly a good idea but so fatally flawed.

It is flawed because of Human nature, the fact that everyone wansts payrises out of it (and i can tell you now, Accountants wont be getting any rises) and becasue AFC is supposed to be resource neutral, then we have a problem. Of course were supposed to work diferently and more efficiently, but i can tell you know ones intrested in Working differently, all they want (and me of course) is to secure theyre earnings, and rightly so.

Tell you what you nurses must be bouncin the way youre treated, the NHS have handed bucket loads of money and huge pay rises to the Consultants through the Consultants Contract, and Jnr Drs through EWTD for their working hrs, which are based on time sheets which are poorly audited, you think theyre honest haha. Trust me, i see the salaries. COnsultants get a special contract, so do GP,s and Jnr Drs, and Nurses and all other grades have this crappy AFC which wont change a jot, will only make it harder for you to say jump from a D to E. Anyway, rant over, hope i aint upset anyone . Be interested what people thoughts are though? Tony

Re: applied for my E grade
 

another comment about AFC is that gp's can have a choice and opt out if they want. I know mine is only taking certain aspects of it and not the rest

Re: applied for my E grade
 

Yep this rat is leaving this sinking ship as quick as possible, just hope the grass is greener.

I think i would not like the aus or NZ system cos of the yearly progression, it might sound fair but just think how many nurses with 10 yrs practice experience but still seem dangerous, most seem to have practiced the same day over and over for 10 years rather than develop their practice. Dont get me wrong, we have a sister in AE whos been a AE Sister for 25 yrs , now shes an ENP. Shes great, a massive assit to the dept, great teacher too. But often its the nurses with 3 yrs experience that are in resus, or competent enough to look after the sickest patients. I prefer a progression through bands/grades/pay based on competency rather than years.

As for being shafted by the Govt. well i think the nursing community is kind of used to that one, probably why so many nurses have back ache all that bending over and kissing their a***s goodbye before the next Govt. initiative :confused:

Re: applied for my E grade
 

Hi Tony,

Was interested to read your comments! Would love to see the salaries of consultants, gps and nursing managers for that fact!!! AFC would appear to be affecting shop floor workers- no change there then.

Because of Agenda for Change I will be working at the same rate as an E grade for a further two years! although I work as a sister unsupervised managing a team of ten every evening I work.

It will be interesting to see what the assistant practitioners are going to be banded as because there are rumours in our trust that they will be in the same band as an auxilliary even though they have just done 2 years at university!!! Cant wait to get my canadian PR.

Sue

Re: applied for my E grade
 

Hi Sue

the GP's that walk through AE on the way to the Out of Hours GP service often with a mattress under their arms to sleep on at nights are currently getting paid about £130 per hour. heard this from a mate who is a consulatant.

they have their busy times, but most week nights they end up sleeping for half the night, not bad eh i wouldnt mind sleeping a few hours whilst getting paid that much.

Re: applied for my E grade
 

il post some salaries tomrrow of consultants and Jnr Drs. On the point above, were also seeing our Drs put on Night shift at a very high rate, but they kicked off when initially told that they couldnt sleep on duty. We now have to provide a bed and a quiet room. Should there be no call out, the Dr will sleep all night and get paid bucket loads.

Re: applied for my E grade
 

Hi Tony,

That will probably really depress me!!! I also work as a Practice Nurse and know the rewards that GP receive from work that the practice nurse has done!! It seem such a crazy system.

Sue

Re: applied for my E grade
 

I will second you on that Sue - i'm a DN and we constantly get asked to do bloods on 80+ year old people so that the dr's can rake the money in.

Next week I am on my own at work and have to spend an entire afternoon being interviewed by the practice accreditation people for the practice - what am I getting out of it!!? Answer: Absolutely nothing!

Lynn :mad:

Re: applied for my E grade
 

Hi lynn

God we really sound like moaners dont we?? I am evening district nurse and practice nurse so I moan twice as much!!!! Am getting paid a better wage though from GP job than district nurse job even though I have done district nursing degree!!! NHS will only pay me F grade equivalent to top E and now agenda for change has come, I will be on same wage as a top E for another two years even though I am in charge every evening. That means I will have worked for 2 years on less than E grade and 3 years the same. It sucks. Roll on Canada!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: applied for my E grade
 

Before you all get too carried away moaning about conditions in the NHS....just consider why there are nursing shortages in Australia and other countries despite what often seem good wages.

It is not a bed of roses in many other places either.

As you may discover.

G

Re: applied for my E grade
 

Bad news folks, I did'nt get the E grade. The feedback was excellent, but the other 2 candidated scored higher than me, and, get this, there are more E grade positions coming up in August and I quote 'will you be in australia then' this is from the chair of the panel!!!!Heres me thinking they are not suppose to take personal circumstances into it. Never mind Oz here I come :)

Re: applied for my E grade
 

Oh bad luck :( but at least you now have experience of an E grade interview so you know what to expect next time :)

Re: applied for my E grade
 

anyway, as soon as AFC comes in thats the end of D's and E's. As they will both be on the same band, then promotion for D Grades will be non existent, all they can do is progress through the band. Therefore if you have 1 very talented D grade and one not so, then they will both go through the band equally to the top of scale, no more promotions as the next band is F grade and that a big jump unless youre very well qualified. Oh and as for the gateways, they are a joke, unless someone is on disciplinary, then you will all pass through without any problems. So if anybody has a chance to get E Grade before AFC is implemented, then go for it, because once your assimilated onto your band, thats yer lot!!

Anyway, as you say, youre off to AUz, so no to worry about this

Re: applied for my E grade
 

Hi there,

Have just got to get this written down somewhere as my blood is boiling!!! Our trust is in the middle of banding. Just found out today that D are in Band 5 and E and F in band 6. I cannot believe it. I have done BSc in Community Health Care, Research Methods and Teaching and Assessing and take charge of evening nursing service every night I work, without supervision of G grade. And have been put in same band as E grades, who I supervise each night. Often the E grades have not even done level 2 work and low and behold they will be able to get to Sister salary. It stinks.

Feel better now thats off my chest

Sue

Re: applied for my E grade
 

God calm down Sue!!!!!!!

What about all the times E grades are left in charge of the caseload!!? There are many E grade community nurses who have specialised in 'leg ulcer management', 'palliative care' etc. etc.

I was an E grade on the evening service too and when all our G grades left (no f's were employed) it was the E grades in charge - infact in our evening service in Glasgow they are not going to employ any further g grades and they have voted to staff evenings with the E grades in charge!

Do you think it therefore would be fair to band E grades with newly qualified nurses on band 5!!?? I certainly don't. Degree's aren't everything you know!

Lynn :beer:

p.s in Glasgow it is looking like E grades will be awarded a band 5 and G grades a Band 6 - don't think any F grades have ever/ will be employed - maybe they will be phased out? I wonder why different areas are doing different things?

Re: applied for my E grade
 

Hi Lynn,

No I agree with you, D and E shouldn.t be in the same band. Was under the impression that D were going in Band 5 and E in Band 6, leaving band 7 for DN trained nurses. If this is the case I will still be on the same money as an E grade for next two years (five years in total since I qualified as DN Specialist Practitioner. I do not disagree with you that E grades can be experienced and specialized however within our evening nursing service this is not the case. Which makes it all more frustrating. E grade never left in charge on evening service. My current role is supervising, advising A,C,D, and E grades. But then all of a sudden they will be in same band as me. Somehow not right.

Sue

Re: applied for my E grade
 

Couldn't agree with you more Sue - that is not fair for you at all.

I think:

D Grade community on Band 5
E grade community on band 6 (due to autonomous nature of job/ 1st visits etc, management of the caseload in the absence of the team leader.)
F/G grade on band 7 - the F grades a weird one - in Glasgow we don't have F grade District nurses - once you do the DN course you can apply for a G grade - sounds like they are getting cheap labour out of you and you should be a G grade.

AFC was meant to herald nurses being rewarded for their personal skills - look whats happened - we have grades simply in another format! For E grades though its a slap in the face to have 5 years post reg experience, increased responsibility and be banded with newly qualified!!!!! I agree its the same situation for you too. Its a disgrace,
Lynn x :mad:

Re: applied for my E grade
 

hey ho!
We'll all be out of it soon :D, the only thing is, what are we going to :eek:

Tracey

Re: applied for my E grade
 

Hi Lynn,

Have read my first thread again and did not want it to seem derogatory to E grades, that was not what I was getting at. Was just fizzing at my hopeless situation. Thanks for your replies. Keep trying to get things into perspective though. Hopefully wont be here for long, it is just the principle of it all. Having a meeting with all other F grades tomorrow, so that should be heated. Looking at getting a work permit for canada so that I can just go!!!! Feel that I have had the rip taken for too long now.

Sue