different_river

My fiance and I are both in our late 20s, currently living in Dublin. I finish my masters in social work next June (2014) and will then be a professionally qualified social worker (a profession that's listed in the skills shortage lists for NZ). I've no real social work experience outside of the internships I will have done for the masters. My fiance has an undergrad and masters in philosophy, but as it goes, has had to find work elsewhere. He's been working in telecommunications and will have certificates in database administration by next June.

I'm American and have lived in South Korea before Ireland, so am used to being far away from home. My real worry is this: we get our visas for NZ, move out there and then find a similar situation for work (hardly any jobs in Ireland) - especially considering neither of us have post-grad experience in the fields we'll be qualified in.

Would anyone have a word of advice? Is it especially difficult finding work with little experience? (of course, we both have years of experience in jobs unrelated to the fields we'll have qualifications in)

Any words of wisdom much appreciated!

M_and_M

First and foremost can you get enough point to get a visa? You can't claim qualification points till you have actually completed it. That's before you consider everything else.

different_river

I took the points indicator test online to see if i'd get over 100 (apparently the baseline score for qualifying for a visa?) - I got 170, which I found surprising considering the little experience caveat, but there I am.

M_and_M

Are you sure? Where did the 170 points come from exactly?

different_river

Sorry - should have said that I took the test ticking off the qualification before I have it (wanted to see how I'd score come next June, when I am qualified) - most of the points came from being on the skills shortage list, having a BA and Masters and being under 30...

M_and_M

Even so I can't see how you got 170? You can't claim points for experience, you can't claim points for. Job offer outside Auckland unless you actually have one and you can't claim points for qualifications till they have been finished and they are either on the exemption list or they have been assessed by NZQA. Does the job you are qualifying for fall Into a visa category? Does your partners ?

different_river

Right - so I just re-took the test. I must have clicked yes on something before that I didn't intend to. The score is 140 now (again, I am saying that I have my social work qualification on the test, before I have it). The social work qualification registers under the 'absolute skills shortage list', which I think gets me a lot of points and again with the education (same with my fiance).

I realise I can't apply for the expression of interest before I have my qualification - I'm just trying to research stuff as much as possible beforehand.

Assuming that I'll have enough points for a visa - what advice would you have for my original question?

Persephone

Hello and welcome!
140 still seems high, given that you've not got any work experience.
How do you get to that value?

The way it works is that you can submit an Expression of Interest if you have 100 points or above. There is a draw every fortnight. Those EOIs with 140 or above are always selected [go onto the next stage]. There is then a sliding scale of what is selected next. Next category is >100 with a job offer. At the moment those two categories are the only ones being selected.

What that means is that if you have <140 points and no job offer you are very unlikely to be selected. You could submit your EOI and all it does is sit in the pool for 6m and is then withdrawn.

There is little point submitting an EOI if it is not likely to be selected, you're wasting your money

However if you do have 140pts then you could submit your EOI and it should be selected at the next draw. [when you have your qualifications!]

As for finding work with little experience in that field, that will vary from occupation to occupation. Just because a job is on the LTSSL does not necessarily mean it will be easy to find a job. I can only think of one social worker on here but I haven't seen her on here for a long time. Try doing a search on here for social work and see what comes up.

P

dannigirl

Hi different_river,

I am a NZ qualified social worker, I have just returned to NZ after 11 years in the UK where I worked in CP and adoption for various LA's.

I don't think you would have much problem getting a job as a social worker with no experience but as with most sectors jobs are not quite as abundant as some years ago. Under a National government there have been quite a few cuts in social services spending. For you I guess it is more of a chicken/egg situation, do you try and find a job before coming out or do you come out and then try and find a job.

It would be worth having a good look at this website.

http://www.cyf.govt.nz/

They have a section for overseas social workers. I would imagine you would have a fairly good chance of getting a job in child protection. It may be worth emailing someone at CYFS just to see where the land lies.

I think you would have to get your qualifications assessed by NZQA but this should just be a paper exercise. Registration is not compulsory here although most jobs state they would like you to be registered. I doubt many follow up on it.

Rather than Local Authorities there is one main government agency Child, Youth and Family who employ statutory social workers across the whole country doing mostly child protection work in a variety of residential and community work. Child, Youth and Family would most certainly pay the most as it's mostly the work no-one wants to really do. The various health boards also have social work positions but I imagine it would be quite difficult to obtain one without much experience. There are also non-government agencies, pay tends to be much lower but the work definitely less stressful and you can achieve much more of a work/life balance. I wouldn't imagine working for CYFS much different to working for a Local Authority in the UK. Not enough hours in the day, not enough resources or money to go around and stress, stress, stress! But there are some things that make it a bit easier.

Here is what MY pros and cons would be:
Pros

• Supervision here is very good I find. Much less task focused and more inclusive of professional and personal development. However, a bad manager is a bad manager anywhere in the world and can make life quite difficult.
• Very good bicultural practice, lots of parallel development and respect toward indigenous populations here.
• Smaller cities would allow you to have a good work/life balance as there would hardly be a need for a huge commute unless you wanted to live rurally. Downside to that is bumping into clients in the supermarket.
• NZ qualified social workers are highly regarded in UK (I have found - there are plenty of us) as we do have quite innovative practice due to the population, it's much easier to roll out a new programme here than in bigger countries.
  • There is still the ability to work with families and do family support work, albeit with non-government agencies, but the ability is there.

Cons

• Whilst I fully support the principles of The Treaty of Waitangi, working bi-culturally can at times feel quite divisive. I say this after 11 years in the UK, so I am still adjusting (and not working at the moment I might add as I am home with young children). It can take some getting used to working bi-culturally, you would be expected to be knowledgeable and informed about the Treaty of Waitangi. This isn't really a con but more something to be aware of.
• Your best bet for work would probably be Auckland. Auckland is a sprawling city and I defy you to find someone on this site who lives in South Auckland! There are parts of Auckland that are very rough and poverty stricken. Also, high cost of living in Auckland. I doubt very much you would ever be able to afford to buy a house in Auckland on a social worker's wage. Christchurch is another city, depends if you can cope with the earthquake risk. Wellington there are jobs but it doesn't seem as many as Auckland and Chch.
• If you did work in the North Island, you would more than likely interact with gang members. They breed on intimidation and fear, no more fearful I wouldn't expect than going onto a notorious estate in the UK. Just a slightly different kettle of fish.
  • NZ factors quite high on child abuse rates. Difficult to know about stats from country to country as they can be recorded differently. But if you are coming to NZ for an easy professional life, think again. We have very real problems with poverty, racism, oppression, domestic violence and child abuse. We have one of the highest child murder rates in the OECD. There are pockets of NZ which are depressing, high unemployment, low incomes, crap housing, drug and alcohol abuse, low educational attainment , poor health, high numbers of mental health issues to name a few!
    • I find it quite depressing to think of children here just getting shifted around from family member to family member. In NZ the focus is really on keeping families together, so much so, I think we have lost our way a bit. In the UK as you will know there is far more adoption and /or removing families on a permanent basis. This does not happen as frequently here, so time after time we hear of children being moved within families who all too often collude with the abuse and are entrenched in it themselves. These kids have very poor outcomes and do not benefit if they are finally removed aged 7+ - the damage has already been done and without proper support and intervention can be a ticking time bomb for later on. Not saying that adoption is necessarily the answer but too many children remain in inadequate situations. (Don't worry I have just as many complaints about the British system - just trying to give you an idea)
      • You may or may not have problems as an overseas social worker.
      • People do not necessarily need to be qualified to work as a social worker here. This really annoys me as I had to do a four year degree with a student loan to show for it. You may end up being supervised by someone who is not qualified. Theoretical experience and qualifications are just as important as experience in my view, there are lots of unqualified social workers who would be social work assistants in the UK. Not to denigrate their experience but it seems a bit unfair that people work hard to achieve a degree, it's not really a level playing field. You will find all sorts of cowboys, especially in residential social work.

Hope that helps. Just let me know if you have any other questions. Apologies for layout, I should be banned from making bullet points!

MrsFychan

you can only claim points for one qualification and it must be listed on the recognised body of education.

A friend of mine is just finishing her degree in social services and has already seen people from previous years struggle to find work and these are home grown kiwi's, so just because its on the list it doesn't mean there is work here.

dannigirl

Yes, true there are lots of applicants for jobs (well the one I have applied for) but I would imagine if OP was prepared to look at Auckland she may well find a job. You have to be prepared to move if you need to if you are NZ trained and qualified. The job might not necessarily be where you want it to be, hence jobs in Auckland. Personally I couldn't bear to live in Invercargill for a job, but if it gets you in, it gets you in, and gets you some experience.

Given the housing situation in Auckland I would look in the UK first. More variety of work, more affordable housing (outside of London).

There have been 10-12 very good social work positions advertised here in Dunedin in the last few months. I have been pleasantly surprised, not sure how many applicants though for each job though.

Catchafire

Seeing as you are in your 20's have you considered a WHV (Working Holiday Visa). Live and work in NZ for 12 months, get a "proper" job, apply for a work visa or residency.

http://www.immigration.govt.nz/migra...idayscheme.htm

M_and_M

(There's nowt wrong with invercargill)

davros1984

Well you've come to the right place!

Honestly, its really down to you guys, what are you after? Somewhere to settle, an experience, to get a job?

My advice is this, write down a list of what is really important to the both of you, from that you'll figure it out.

I really love it here. I came home from work today feeling like I really enjoy how things are right now. My job is going well, we live in a pretty but quiet spot in Auckland and I have a lot of time for myself, and my partner. At the same time I am so gutted and down. I'd love to be able to settle here, but as stated in my other posts... buying a house here would be like committing myself to a $4,000+ a month mortgage for the next 30 years. As great as it is right now, long-term Auckland just isn't somewhere you can settle and buy unless you have a lot of money saved up, i.e.... 200-300K NZD.

Woodlea

Aren't you the ones that take home $10.5K a month? If so $4K a month is easy, <40% of you take home pay, most people would dream of that!