Why people have Negative Concepts about NZ ?
Oct 26th 2005, 10:54 am
#61
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,606
Re: Negative Vibes.
Originally Posted by Tech21
I have read this thread with interest as a prospective immigrant from the UK to NZ.
Just some observations : -
1) It appears (to me at any rate) that people who want to return to the UK all mainly have the same reasons for wanting to do so, highest is missing friends and family, next is people who expected to find a UK without all the problems and next is too much month left over at the end of the money. No one wants to return ‘cause they think the crime rate is a problem and fear for how their children will turn out being exposed to and brought up in escalating crime levels like the UK has at present. But most people who want to leave the UK have their children’s safety as a first priority and ARE worried about the rising crime rate in the UK.
You are right that many migrants return primarily due to homesickness, although unlike Aus I honestly think finances play a more important role for those returning from NZ.
The lifestyle is great and many do not dispute this, but for those struggling with the equivalent COL to the UK but on lower wages, this is like for example people in good secure jobs in the UK that buy them all the essentials plus say 2 cars and 1 or 2 foreign holidays plus days out whenever they want them plus savings, to scraping to make ends meet to cover the rent and food. I can see whay these people then become angry and perhaps negative in postings since they are so frustrated that they made the move. To them it was not worth it. And yes NZ does not owe them anything (I think these people whould actually agree with this), but for whatever reason they are trapped and it did not meet with their research (quality unknown) or expectations.
2) I have tried to get a balanced view of the cost of specific items in NZ and have only really had a few instances when this information has been given, most times it has been people telling me that direct price comparisons are meaningless (yes I am well aware of this fact but I need the prices to try and work out what my monthly spending will be).
There are lots of websites that will help with this, and also a lot of thread on cost of living and budgets. I'm not the best at searches but if you try on the forum you will uncover a lot of useful data.
3) People living in, or in suburbs of, cities are the ones who appear to be struggling the most.
Don't know but could be the case as costs will be higher.
4) A lot of the “Doom and Gloomers” appear not to live in NZ although claim to have once lived there.
Not sure either. Some have returned as it was not for them - mainly since their standard of living was so much lower that they decided to return from what I have read here. Worth giving this some thought.
5) The D&G-ers that do live in NZ mainly appear to live on North Island.
I think this is true here, but the population sample is too small to generalise so I would not want to base any decisions on this personally.
6) If it is so hard to live in NZ and survive on the wages why are so many people still there? Up to now I have heard so much conjecture and very little hard fact. I read somewhere (on this forum I think) that 50% of migrants end up leaving NZ to go back home or on to Australia, anyone have a factual account of this? Why anyone would want to go to Australia where a trip to the toilet could result in getting bitten on the knob by a poisonous spider is totally beyond me!!
I think people genuinely get trapped in NZ - ie can't afford the flight home and/or get back on to the housing ladder etc etc having given that up for 'the dream', plus kids get settled and are happy. The point about Australia worries me the most, since career opportunities and standards of living are much better than in NZ. This is a well known fact. Plus most people return from Aus due to homesickness, and I have never heard anyone complain about COL on the Australia forum.
7) On a light hearted level. Here’s one for the conspiracy theorists, is the doom and gloom just propaganda spread about to keep people out of NZ so it won’t fill up with UK immigrants??..or is that notion really just way too paranoid???
[COLOR=DarkSlateBlue]Would love that to be the case but I really doubt it![/COLOR]
8) The only place in the UK where I have found people who are friendly towards strangers is Scotland. The UK's population is like its beer, the farer north you go the nicer it is.
Not necessarily. I live in a very friendly village, although I can see the point you are trying to make. Often I think it's because COL has spiralled out of control in the South and so stress levels are always on the rise!
If I have spat in anyones holy water I apologise. Never heard this one before!
If any of this is wrong, please let me know.
Just some observations : -
1) It appears (to me at any rate) that people who want to return to the UK all mainly have the same reasons for wanting to do so, highest is missing friends and family, next is people who expected to find a UK without all the problems and next is too much month left over at the end of the money. No one wants to return ‘cause they think the crime rate is a problem and fear for how their children will turn out being exposed to and brought up in escalating crime levels like the UK has at present. But most people who want to leave the UK have their children’s safety as a first priority and ARE worried about the rising crime rate in the UK.
You are right that many migrants return primarily due to homesickness, although unlike Aus I honestly think finances play a more important role for those returning from NZ.
The lifestyle is great and many do not dispute this, but for those struggling with the equivalent COL to the UK but on lower wages, this is like for example people in good secure jobs in the UK that buy them all the essentials plus say 2 cars and 1 or 2 foreign holidays plus days out whenever they want them plus savings, to scraping to make ends meet to cover the rent and food. I can see whay these people then become angry and perhaps negative in postings since they are so frustrated that they made the move. To them it was not worth it. And yes NZ does not owe them anything (I think these people whould actually agree with this), but for whatever reason they are trapped and it did not meet with their research (quality unknown) or expectations.
2) I have tried to get a balanced view of the cost of specific items in NZ and have only really had a few instances when this information has been given, most times it has been people telling me that direct price comparisons are meaningless (yes I am well aware of this fact but I need the prices to try and work out what my monthly spending will be).
There are lots of websites that will help with this, and also a lot of thread on cost of living and budgets. I'm not the best at searches but if you try on the forum you will uncover a lot of useful data.
3) People living in, or in suburbs of, cities are the ones who appear to be struggling the most.
Don't know but could be the case as costs will be higher.
4) A lot of the “Doom and Gloomers” appear not to live in NZ although claim to have once lived there.
Not sure either. Some have returned as it was not for them - mainly since their standard of living was so much lower that they decided to return from what I have read here. Worth giving this some thought.
5) The D&G-ers that do live in NZ mainly appear to live on North Island.
I think this is true here, but the population sample is too small to generalise so I would not want to base any decisions on this personally.
6) If it is so hard to live in NZ and survive on the wages why are so many people still there? Up to now I have heard so much conjecture and very little hard fact. I read somewhere (on this forum I think) that 50% of migrants end up leaving NZ to go back home or on to Australia, anyone have a factual account of this? Why anyone would want to go to Australia where a trip to the toilet could result in getting bitten on the knob by a poisonous spider is totally beyond me!!
I think people genuinely get trapped in NZ - ie can't afford the flight home and/or get back on to the housing ladder etc etc having given that up for 'the dream', plus kids get settled and are happy. The point about Australia worries me the most, since career opportunities and standards of living are much better than in NZ. This is a well known fact. Plus most people return from Aus due to homesickness, and I have never heard anyone complain about COL on the Australia forum.
7) On a light hearted level. Here’s one for the conspiracy theorists, is the doom and gloom just propaganda spread about to keep people out of NZ so it won’t fill up with UK immigrants??..or is that notion really just way too paranoid???
[COLOR=DarkSlateBlue]Would love that to be the case but I really doubt it![/COLOR]
8) The only place in the UK where I have found people who are friendly towards strangers is Scotland. The UK's population is like its beer, the farer north you go the nicer it is.
Not necessarily. I live in a very friendly village, although I can see the point you are trying to make. Often I think it's because COL has spiralled out of control in the South and so stress levels are always on the rise!
If I have spat in anyones holy water I apologise. Never heard this one before!
If any of this is wrong, please let me know.
Oct 26th 2005, 11:02 am
#62
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Joined: Aug 2004
Location: Dubai
Posts: 2,082
Re: Negative Vibes.
Originally Posted by uk+kiwi
1. Would also like to add that 25% of tertiary educated people leave NZ for better career (& therefore standard of living , through the increased salary) opportunities, many to Australia.
2. It is true that NZ struggles to keep its best people.
3. And that many leave NZ and then return with lots of cash to buy a couple of houses etc etc. for the 'good lifestyle' they can then afford on NZ wages.
4.Also however, many average kiwis also do just fine!
5.Personally I think that like everywhere, a lot depends on luck, attitude & expectations in life.
2. Yes - this has been well publicised in NZ press and government has, or is, starting a campaign to lure those people back.....but no cash incentives it seems.
3. Yes - where possible. Housing market and exchange rate has made this somewhat more difficult over last 5 years so a lot of people (myself including) are sitting it out and will return once we can get some bang out of our buck.
4. Yep - they certainly do.
5. Spot on!
Oct 26th 2005, 11:11 am
#63
Galaxy 1: Cadbury's 0
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,606
Re: Negative Vibes.
Originally Posted by kelvynd
1. YES - I'd say half of my class from AKL University are currently overseas - most in UK.
2. Yes - this has been well publicised in NZ press and government has, or is, starting a campaign to lure those people back.....but no cash incentives it seems.
3. Yes - where possible. Housing market and exchange rate has made this somewhat more difficult over last 5 years so a lot of people (myself including) are sitting it out and will return once we can get some bang out of our buck.
4. Yep - they certainly do.
5. Spot on!
2. Yes - this has been well publicised in NZ press and government has, or is, starting a campaign to lure those people back.....but no cash incentives it seems.
3. Yes - where possible. Housing market and exchange rate has made this somewhat more difficult over last 5 years so a lot of people (myself including) are sitting it out and will return once we can get some bang out of our buck.
4. Yep - they certainly do.
5. Spot on!
I am quite sure he will want to return at some point, we nearly did 2 years ago and are going for Xmas to see whether we think the time is right. I love NZ, but it is a long way from the UK!
Oct 26th 2005, 11:13 am
#64
Just Joined
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Warrington, Cheshire, UK
Posts: 29
Re: Negative Vibes.
Originally Posted by uk+kiwi
Would also like to add that 25% of tertiary educated people leave NZ for better career (& therefore standard of living , through the increased salary) opportunities, many to Australia. It is true that NZ struggles to keep its best people. And that many leave NZ and then return with lots of cash to buy a couple of houses etc etc. for the 'good lifestyle' they can then afford on NZ wages. Also however, many average kiwis also do just fine! Personally I think that like everywhere, a lot depends on luck, attitude & expectations in life.
You mention "a secure job in the UK" unfortunately most pundits reckon these days a secure job can only be considered as 3 years, that's why my wife and I now work contract, more money, none of the corporate B/S to be bothered with and the contracts are quite plentiful at present and have been now for the last 10 years or so but you still have to be prepared for a downturn in the market and the possibility of facing being out of work for months is a reality.
Oct 26th 2005, 11:21 am
#65
Galaxy 1: Cadbury's 0
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,606
Re: Negative Vibes.
Originally Posted by Tech21
Thanks for taking the time to write a reply to each point, very much appreciated.
You mention "a secure job in the UK" unfortunately most pundits reckon these days a secure job can only be considered as 3 years, that's why my wife and I now work contract, more money, none of the corporate B/S to be bothered with and the contracts are quite plentiful at present and have been now for the last 10 years or so but you still have to be prepared for a downturn in the market and the possibility of facing being out of work for months is a reality.
You mention "a secure job in the UK" unfortunately most pundits reckon these days a secure job can only be considered as 3 years, that's why my wife and I now work contract, more money, none of the corporate B/S to be bothered with and the contracts are quite plentiful at present and have been now for the last 10 years or so but you still have to be prepared for a downturn in the market and the possibility of facing being out of work for months is a reality.
Not sure what area of work you are in, BUT if you are a highly salaried contract IT professional for example in the UK, I am sure I do not need point out that you are unlikely to remain as highly paid in NZ, although if demand is there for your skills in NZ, I am sure you could have a very very nice lifestyle.
Good luck.
Oct 26th 2005, 11:25 am
#66
journey from here to here
Joined: Sep 2005
Location: Auckland
Posts: 71
Re: Why prople have Negative Concepts about NZ ?
NZ is crap I have been in OZ for 2 years and NZ for 5 and can speak from exp.
Don't listen when people say it soooooo good.
Don't listen when people say it soooooo good.
Oct 26th 2005, 11:33 am
#67
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Location: Dubai
Posts: 2,082
Re: Why prople have Negative Concepts about NZ ?
Originally Posted by puna
NZ is crap I have been in OZ for 2 years and NZ for 5 and can speak from exp.
Don't listen when people say it soooooo good.
Don't listen when people say it soooooo good.
Although I'd say OZ is BETTER than NZ........I wouldn't say NZ is crap.
Oct 26th 2005, 11:48 am
#68
Nice Tats
Joined: Apr 2005
Location: PARADISE DARN SARRF
Posts: 819
Re: Negative Vibes.
Originally Posted by Tech21
How???
8) The only place in the UK where I have found people who are friendly towards strangers is Scotland. The UK's population is like its beer, the farer north you go the nicer it is.
Theres one for a start....i could not live further from Scotland and am surrounded by friendly people and good beer
The tone of your post caused me offence...and if you need to apologise for a post at the end...dont post it
Thats How
Oct 26th 2005, 12:24 pm
#69
Forum Regular
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Woodbridge, Suffolk
Posts: 90
Re: Negative Vibes.
Originally Posted by Tech21
Thanks for taking the time to write a reply to each point, very much appreciated.
You mention "a secure job in the UK" unfortunately most pundits reckon these days a secure job can only be considered as 3 years, that's why my wife and I now work contract, more money, none of the corporate B/S to be bothered with and the contracts are quite plentiful at present and have been now for the last 10 years or so but you still have to be prepared for a downturn in the market and the possibility of facing being out of work for months is a reality.
You mention "a secure job in the UK" unfortunately most pundits reckon these days a secure job can only be considered as 3 years, that's why my wife and I now work contract, more money, none of the corporate B/S to be bothered with and the contracts are quite plentiful at present and have been now for the last 10 years or so but you still have to be prepared for a downturn in the market and the possibility of facing being out of work for months is a reality.
Remember that it's not so easy to walk into and out of jobs in a country where you need paperwork to work.
JAJ - Please correct me if I am wrong.
HTH
PP
x
Oct 26th 2005, 12:35 pm
#70
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 576
Re: Negative Vibes.
Originally Posted by Pompey_Paul
Selective clipping
8) The only place in the UK where I have found people who are friendly towards strangers is Scotland. The UK's population is like its beer, the farer north you go the nicer it is.
Theres one for a start....i could not live further from Scotland and am surrounded by friendly people and good beer
The tone of your post caused me offence...and if you need to apologise for a post at the end...dont post it
Thats How
8) The only place in the UK where I have found people who are friendly towards strangers is Scotland. The UK's population is like its beer, the farer north you go the nicer it is.
Theres one for a start....i could not live further from Scotland and am surrounded by friendly people and good beer
The tone of your post caused me offence...and if you need to apologise for a post at the end...dont post it
Thats How
I think as well its all down to luck. Everything happens for a reason bla bla bla. Some things you cant foresee but imo if you dont do it you will yearn to do it. So its up to you do you go or what?
Me, I did regret going to NZ but as I said to my mate in the pub the other nite "we wouldnt be where we are now if we hadnt down what we had done"... make sense haha.
ps for the records the Kiwis love us Scots more
Oct 26th 2005, 12:39 pm
#71
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Re: Negative Vibes.
Originally Posted by scottish
Be jesus its heated on here today pmsl... now the above coment No.8 is so true (of course I am biaised).
I think as well its all down to luck. Everything happens for a reason bla bla bla. Some things you cant foresee but imo if you dont do it you will yearn to do it. So its up to you do you go or what?
Me, I did regret going to NZ but as I said to my mate in the pub the other nite "we wouldnt be where we are now if we hadnt down what we had done"... make sense haha.
ps for the records the Kiwis love us Scots more
I think as well its all down to luck. Everything happens for a reason bla bla bla. Some things you cant foresee but imo if you dont do it you will yearn to do it. So its up to you do you go or what?
Me, I did regret going to NZ but as I said to my mate in the pub the other nite "we wouldnt be where we are now if we hadnt down what we had done"... make sense haha.
ps for the records the Kiwis love us Scots more
There is a historical reason for this....blowed if i can remember why! anyone else have a clue?
Oct 26th 2005, 12:47 pm
#72
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 576
Re: Why people have Negative Concepts about NZ ?
ps whats wrong with wanting more money anyway?????
pps I think its a rather tad wrong to make some of teh comments people do. Sky, Rascal and sorry the other person(cant remember your name in Auckland) are finding it hard and only want to warn people of the pitfalls. I wish someone had warned us then we wouldnt of made so many mistakes, and no its not done to bad planning more like keeping your arse covered and being made aware that NZ aint the land of milk and honey. Yes, some folk are happy to live off on little money and some folk like some money in the bank for a rainy day (as theres alot of them in NZ).
pps I think its a rather tad wrong to make some of teh comments people do. Sky, Rascal and sorry the other person(cant remember your name in Auckland) are finding it hard and only want to warn people of the pitfalls. I wish someone had warned us then we wouldnt of made so many mistakes, and no its not done to bad planning more like keeping your arse covered and being made aware that NZ aint the land of milk and honey. Yes, some folk are happy to live off on little money and some folk like some money in the bank for a rainy day (as theres alot of them in NZ).
Oct 26th 2005, 12:52 pm
#73
Forum Regular
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Woodbridge, Suffolk
Posts: 90
Re: Negative Vibes.
Originally Posted by Pompey_Paul
ps for the records the Kiwis love us Scots more
There is a historical reason for this....blowed if i can remember why! anyone else have a clue?
There is a historical reason for this....blowed if i can remember why! anyone else have a clue?
Oct 26th 2005, 1:08 pm
#74
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 576
Re: Negative Vibes.
Originally Posted by Pompey_Paul
ps for the records the Kiwis love us Scots more
There is a historical reason for this....blowed if i can remember why! anyone else have a clue?
There is a historical reason for this....blowed if i can remember why! anyone else have a clue?
Oct 26th 2005, 1:14 pm
#75
BE Enthusiast
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Posts: 906
Re: Negative Vibes.
Originally Posted by Panda_Pops
Rugby?
KAZ