White Island eruption ( renamed)
Dec 13th 2019, 12:11 am
#46
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: bute
Posts: 9,740
Re: White Island eruption ( renamed)
Justcol displays his anti-NZ feelings ?
Dec 13th 2019, 3:29 am
#47
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: bottom of the world
Posts: 4,533
Re: White Island eruption ( renamed)
You really have have no idea do you.
I get criticism on here for being to Pro NZ. This place is my home, has-been for 11 years and always will be. That doesn't mean I have to kiss the arse of every kiwi I meet and agree with all of the stupid things they do, and there are many.
If someone is stupid enough to think standing in the crater of an active volcano is ok, they deserve everything that happens when it all goes tits up. If people are stupid enough to think it's ok to take other half wits to the crater of an active volcano because there's money to be made out of it, and let's not pretend there is any other reason behind it, they also deserve everything that comes their way when the s##t hits the fan. However the root cause of this travesty lies with the ridiculous kiwi H&S laws which allow these things to happen time and time again, all in the name of tourism, 100% New Zealand, adventure, but most of all money
I get criticism on here for being to Pro NZ. This place is my home, has-been for 11 years and always will be. That doesn't mean I have to kiss the arse of every kiwi I meet and agree with all of the stupid things they do, and there are many.
If someone is stupid enough to think standing in the crater of an active volcano is ok, they deserve everything that happens when it all goes tits up. If people are stupid enough to think it's ok to take other half wits to the crater of an active volcano because there's money to be made out of it, and let's not pretend there is any other reason behind it, they also deserve everything that comes their way when the s##t hits the fan. However the root cause of this travesty lies with the ridiculous kiwi H&S laws which allow these things to happen time and time again, all in the name of tourism, 100% New Zealand, adventure, but most of all money
Last edited by Justcol; Dec 13th 2019 at 3:57 am.
Dec 13th 2019, 4:47 am
#48
Concierge
Joined: Jan 2013
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 21,139
Re: White Island eruption ( renamed)
Dec 13th 2019, 6:34 am
#49
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: bottom of the world
Posts: 4,533
Re: White Island eruption ( renamed)
Is standing in an active volcano dangerous...yes
Should I do it...yeah, f##k the consequences and everyone else, she'll be right.
Dec 13th 2019, 7:12 am
#50
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: Auckland
Posts: 463
Re: White Island eruption ( renamed)
Visiting an active volcano is different, it's a "You pays your money, you takes your chances" type deal. It's very sad these people have died or been injured but I do not buy the idea that people would not have been aware that active volcanos are dangerous. Similarly if an earthquake struck Wellington we would hardly be standing around tutting while asking why people where allowed to live in that city.
The real danger is complacency with danger that cannot be mitigated, I'm not saying don't go and enjoy skiing at Ruapehu but understand that major major eruptions are about a 50 year event. There is a tiny risk you'll be in the wrong place at the wrong time. The White Island volcano has killed before and it'll likely do so again, it just may take a century for people to become complacent about its dangers.
The real danger is complacency with danger that cannot be mitigated, I'm not saying don't go and enjoy skiing at Ruapehu but understand that major major eruptions are about a 50 year event. There is a tiny risk you'll be in the wrong place at the wrong time. The White Island volcano has killed before and it'll likely do so again, it just may take a century for people to become complacent about its dangers.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-50739545
And who am I to condemn them? I voluntarily live in a city that sits on top of a volcanic field. That field is currently 'dormant' but it is not 'extinct' so one day it will probably erupt again.
Dec 13th 2019, 2:14 pm
#51
Forum Regular
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 170
Re: White Island eruption ( renamed)
No I'm sorry but justcol is right! If you was on safari and you came across a lion that you was told was asleep or tranquilised would you put your head in its mouth?? That's a no from me!
Dec 13th 2019, 4:30 pm
#52
Concierge
Joined: May 2006
Location: ex ex-pat, in Taunton
Posts: 27,214
Re: White Island eruption ( renamed)
So it was ok to allow tourists onto the island but not rescuer's, even though the actual level of risk hasn't changed. There was increased activity before the eruption which raised the danger level, but it was ignored. The situation is comical, shambolic and typically kiwi.
Dec 13th 2019, 11:25 pm
#53
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: bottom of the world
Posts: 4,533
Re: White Island eruption ( renamed)
Dec 14th 2019, 11:09 am
#57
Concierge
Joined: Jan 2013
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 21,139
Re: White Island eruption ( renamed)
To deserve something means that it's right that someone should have it, because of the way they behaved. A lot of people on this thread, including you and I, have expressed horror and sympathy for the fate of the victims. 'They deserved it' can't be reconciled with that. 'They should have known better' or 'they were stupid' can be, 'they deserved it' can't. Anyway, that's my take on it, and it's why I objected to that part of Justcol's post. I hope that's clear enough.
Dec 14th 2019, 7:51 pm
#58
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jun 2005
Location: In a large village called Auckland
Posts: 5,249
Re: White Island eruption ( renamed)
There will be a massive and expensive inquiry into this that will take months and years to get answers but I have no doubt that the answers are already there and findings will show that there were multiple failures around the safety aspects and that duty of care were woefully lacking, because this is NZ and that's the way we roll.
Those poor people did not deserve to die; they were just wanting a fun day out and following a well trodden trail of others that went before them to get the Instagram / Facebook shot of the day and were not fully aware of the dangers. They likely felt they would be in safe hands and that nobody would seriously contemplate putting their lives in such extreme danger.
People specifically come to NZ for 'adventure tourism' and often that's only allowed to happen because of the famous laid back 'she'll be tight' attitude to most things; the big draw is being allowed to do dangerous stuff here that ordinarily they would not be able to do elsewhere. Health & safety laws for adventure tourism only came into play in 2016 after some pressure from overseas parents and families of people who had lost their loved ones to other horrific accidents here.
It seems from some accounts that there was not any serious safety briefing or escape plan and that health not being taken very seriously;
https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/11813...ps-says-expert
I am sure we can all regale some stupidly insane and dangerous things we've done on holidays, things that we wouldn't normally consider doing in our everyday lives; but you would like to think in this day that all safety aspects were rigorous and were well covered off. But that's not the Kiwi way.
Some of the stories coming out don't even bear thinking about; such as the helicopter companies not being registered adventure tour companies and thus avoiding any kind of safety audits:
https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/11817...sk-50000-fines
Those poor people did not deserve to die; they were just wanting a fun day out and following a well trodden trail of others that went before them to get the Instagram / Facebook shot of the day and were not fully aware of the dangers. They likely felt they would be in safe hands and that nobody would seriously contemplate putting their lives in such extreme danger.
People specifically come to NZ for 'adventure tourism' and often that's only allowed to happen because of the famous laid back 'she'll be tight' attitude to most things; the big draw is being allowed to do dangerous stuff here that ordinarily they would not be able to do elsewhere. Health & safety laws for adventure tourism only came into play in 2016 after some pressure from overseas parents and families of people who had lost their loved ones to other horrific accidents here.
It seems from some accounts that there was not any serious safety briefing or escape plan and that health not being taken very seriously;
A tourist who has taken the White Island Tour, who asked not to be named, said the risks were not explicitly stated in their safety briefing and it was assumed they were allowed to be on the island as it was safe. The tourist could not recall seeing any gas detection equipment on the guides.
"We were just told to wear the masks if the gas was troubling you," she said.
"I think if I was told explicitly that there could be dangerous gasses on the island and the lack of a quick escape plan before hand, I would not have gone," she said.
"We were just told to wear the masks if the gas was troubling you," she said.
"I think if I was told explicitly that there could be dangerous gasses on the island and the lack of a quick escape plan before hand, I would not have gone," she said.
I am sure we can all regale some stupidly insane and dangerous things we've done on holidays, things that we wouldn't normally consider doing in our everyday lives; but you would like to think in this day that all safety aspects were rigorous and were well covered off. But that's not the Kiwi way.
Some of the stories coming out don't even bear thinking about; such as the helicopter companies not being registered adventure tour companies and thus avoiding any kind of safety audits:
https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/11817...sk-50000-fines
Dec 15th 2019, 3:31 am
#59
Account Closed
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 0
Re: White Island eruption ( renamed)
There will be a massive and expensive inquiry into this that will take months and years to get answers but I have no doubt that the answers are already there and findings will show that there were multiple failures around the safety aspects and that duty of care were woefully lacking, because this is NZ and that's the way we roll.
Those poor people did not deserve to die; they were just wanting a fun day out and following a well trodden trail of others that went before them to get the Instagram / Facebook shot of the day and were not fully aware of the dangers. They likely felt they would be in safe hands and that nobody would seriously contemplate putting their lives in such extreme danger.
People specifically come to NZ for 'adventure tourism' and often that's only allowed to happen because of the famous laid back 'she'll be tight' attitude to most things; the big draw is being allowed to do dangerous stuff here that ordinarily they would not be able to do elsewhere. Health & safety laws for adventure tourism only came into play in 2016 after some pressure from overseas parents and families of people who had lost their loved ones to other horrific accidents here.
It seems from some accounts that there was not any serious safety briefing or escape plan and that health not being taken very seriously;
https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/11813...ps-says-expert
I am sure we can all regale some stupidly insane and dangerous things we've done on holidays, things that we wouldn't normally consider doing in our everyday lives; but you would like to think in this day that all safety aspects were rigorous and were well covered off. But that's not the Kiwi way.
Some of the stories coming out don't even bear thinking about; such as the helicopter companies not being registered adventure tour companies and thus avoiding any kind of safety audits:
https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/11817...sk-50000-fines
Those poor people did not deserve to die; they were just wanting a fun day out and following a well trodden trail of others that went before them to get the Instagram / Facebook shot of the day and were not fully aware of the dangers. They likely felt they would be in safe hands and that nobody would seriously contemplate putting their lives in such extreme danger.
People specifically come to NZ for 'adventure tourism' and often that's only allowed to happen because of the famous laid back 'she'll be tight' attitude to most things; the big draw is being allowed to do dangerous stuff here that ordinarily they would not be able to do elsewhere. Health & safety laws for adventure tourism only came into play in 2016 after some pressure from overseas parents and families of people who had lost their loved ones to other horrific accidents here.
It seems from some accounts that there was not any serious safety briefing or escape plan and that health not being taken very seriously;
https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/11813...ps-says-expert
I am sure we can all regale some stupidly insane and dangerous things we've done on holidays, things that we wouldn't normally consider doing in our everyday lives; but you would like to think in this day that all safety aspects were rigorous and were well covered off. But that's not the Kiwi way.
Some of the stories coming out don't even bear thinking about; such as the helicopter companies not being registered adventure tour companies and thus avoiding any kind of safety audits:
https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/11817...sk-50000-fines
Actually a great post BJ.
Dec 15th 2019, 6:58 pm
#60
`
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 38,613
Re: White Island eruption ( renamed)
There will be a massive and expensive inquiry into this that will take months and years to get answers but I have no doubt that the answers are already there and findings will show that there were multiple failures around the safety aspects and that duty of care were woefully lacking, because this is NZ and that's the way we roll.
Those poor people did not deserve to die; they were just wanting a fun day out and following a well trodden trail of others that went before them to get the Instagram / Facebook shot of the day and were not fully aware of the dangers. They likely felt they would be in safe hands and that nobody would seriously contemplate putting their lives in such extreme danger.
People specifically come to NZ for 'adventure tourism' and often that's only allowed to happen because of the famous laid back 'she'll be tight' attitude to most things; the big draw is being allowed to do dangerous stuff here that ordinarily they would not be able to do elsewhere. Health & safety laws for adventure tourism only came into play in 2016 after some pressure from overseas parents and families of people who had lost their loved ones to other horrific accidents here.
It seems from some accounts that there was not any serious safety briefing or escape plan and that health not being taken very seriously;
https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/11813...ps-says-expert
I am sure we can all regale some stupidly insane and dangerous things we've done on holidays, things that we wouldn't normally consider doing in our everyday lives; but you would like to think in this day that all safety aspects were rigorous and were well covered off. But that's not the Kiwi way.
Some of the stories coming out don't even bear thinking about; such as the helicopter companies not being registered adventure tour companies and thus avoiding any kind of safety audits:
https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/11817...sk-50000-fines
Those poor people did not deserve to die; they were just wanting a fun day out and following a well trodden trail of others that went before them to get the Instagram / Facebook shot of the day and were not fully aware of the dangers. They likely felt they would be in safe hands and that nobody would seriously contemplate putting their lives in such extreme danger.
People specifically come to NZ for 'adventure tourism' and often that's only allowed to happen because of the famous laid back 'she'll be tight' attitude to most things; the big draw is being allowed to do dangerous stuff here that ordinarily they would not be able to do elsewhere. Health & safety laws for adventure tourism only came into play in 2016 after some pressure from overseas parents and families of people who had lost their loved ones to other horrific accidents here.
It seems from some accounts that there was not any serious safety briefing or escape plan and that health not being taken very seriously;
https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/11813...ps-says-expert
I am sure we can all regale some stupidly insane and dangerous things we've done on holidays, things that we wouldn't normally consider doing in our everyday lives; but you would like to think in this day that all safety aspects were rigorous and were well covered off. But that's not the Kiwi way.
Some of the stories coming out don't even bear thinking about; such as the helicopter companies not being registered adventure tour companies and thus avoiding any kind of safety audits:
https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/11817...sk-50000-fines