Re: What is REALLY uncool about NZ
 

It's just the way it is. It isn't that much different in Australia you know - i.e. having to accrue leave before taking it, the Christmas shutdown etc.

In my experience employers in both countries do bend the rules a little to allow people to go into debt with leave, but not too much.

One option is to salary sacrifice and buy an extra five / ten days leave every year, or another is to take unpaid leave over Christmas. Great if you can afford to do it. :thumbsup:

I've never worked in the states but I hear leave allocation is a far worse there and people have to use public holidays more to get a break.

Re: What is REALLY uncool about NZ
 

It is just another 'quirk' to watch out for, because it can come as somewhat of a bleedin pain in the @$$ to find your leave is not your own to do with as you please. It's fine to Xmas shutdowns if it is known in advance; is in the employment contract etc and can be planned around. In the UK most places pretty much close up or run with minimal staff for the three days between Christmas and New Year so you can oblige and accept a nice week off and there's usually a clause in your contract that will state the maximum amount of days that the company can be set aside for this.

I understand however that NZ Labour laws says employers can pretty much at will, dictate to you when you can and can't take leave. This need not be explicitly specified in the individuals employment contract and there is no limit to the number of days that they can direct you to take.

It is just the sheer bad planning and messing around with peoples lives that sucks. My OHs firm announced less than a month before last Christmas that everyone had to take three weeks leave. It was a pure bolt out of the blue to us, as we had plans already in in place to use that leave for visitors arriving in February. He pleaded his case and was eventually allowed to work one week of the three.

This year, funny eh, they need people to work. Noises started being made earlier this month to not make any plans cos it's uncertain now if leave will be allowed. Its now 22nd November and they've still done nothing, nobody has come forward to volunteer so the next step is to find out who were the last ones put their leave requests in and they will be made to work.

Re: What is REALLY uncool about NZ
 

Still considering going to nz ..the uk is well overpopulated and the roads although safe are jammed.i suppose the grass isnt all that greener but driving on loggin roads sounds like a challenge..i go up and down gearbox of truck all day and thats on 1 stretch of the m25..slate nz but u can come back here and live like a overtaxed sardine..:):):confused:

Re: What is REALLY uncool about NZ
 

The leave entitlement is one that drives me mad. I always had 5 weeks in the UK so only getting 4 here was bad enough but having to work for a year before getting any is just ridiculous- a whole year without time off:frown:
This was written into the contract for my first job and I left there after 11 months having accrued nearly a full year's leave. It was only when I was leaving that I was told that they have no problem with you using your leave before that so it is always worth asking.
It worked for me anyway as I have had trouble finding work down here and the extra pay came in handy:thumbup:
I should class myself as lucky that I work in a profession that is generally just as busy over Xmas [if not more] and a Xmas shutdown will never be an issue for me.

You read it wrong!! I live in Christchurch and am fully aware of how the damage is mainly confined to brick buildings, walls and especially chimneys. To be fair these are older brick buildings and not modern builds. I had always said I wanted a brick house as that is what I'm used to and they feel more 'solid', I am now very glad we don't have one...

Re: What is REALLY uncool about NZ
 

I would never, ever return to the Uk and ONLY because of the overcrowding. I think the UK is a wonderful, wonderful place. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaay more wonderful than NZ in many, many ways. However NZ is all but empty. Thus it has my vote. Now something uncool..............hardly any crash barriers ANYWHERE..no matter how precipitous the drop off the side may be, you should drive up our local volcano ( Mt Ruapehu) in white out conditions during the winter...I was shitting bricks at the top!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: What is REALLY uncool about NZ
 

sounds like the UK to me, especially the crap Chinese goods. But doesn't everything come from China or India, even designer clothes.It's everywhere. But the thing is, NZ isn't so crowded so there are fewer boy racers noise to cope with. Sorry about the trout, or lack of it.

Re: What is REALLY uncool about NZ
 

Uncool thing about NZ? All candy / sweets are called lollies and people laugh when I give my kids 'sweeties and lollipops', lol

Re: What is REALLY uncool about NZ
 

There will be poor quality goods imported from China, India, Pakistan and other countries wherever there is a market for them. It's people buying them that brings more of them in. If you don't like it don't buy it. To be fair not everything that comes from China is crap and not everything that is crap comes from China - e.g. British Leyland.

Re: What is REALLY uncool about NZ
 

I think you can take 90% of these uncool things and apply them to just about
any other country on the planet.
NZ isnt special when it comes to shit things happening around you.

Re: What is REALLY uncool about NZ
 

Any idea where Next, Laura Ashley, M&S clothes are made? I agree with you, not everything that comes from China is crap.

re: lollies, my kids' primary teacher used to give the class lollies as rewards for getting things right, it used to annoy the hell out of me. Not just because of the dangers to their tooth enamel, effects of colourings etc but because they may learn to associate junk food with reward.

Re: What is REALLY uncool about NZ
 

Genesis are you sure you aren't driving round in a Metro with a flat cap on :eek: it isn't that scary driving up Ruapehu. I mean no disrespect to Metros it was my first ever car :wub: but they do have a reputation for being driven round by 80 year old men doing 20 miles an hour :p

That sick note thing after 1 day....that sucks. It's so open to exploitation by dodgy employers. We got consulted on it today and my work won't be implementing it thank god. Our HR director said that it sounded like John Key was doing a deal to that Rodney guy over something else - is he the ACT one?

Re: What is REALLY uncool about NZ
 

Londonescapee have you ever driven up Ruapehu in a white out in winter? :D

You should give it a go some day.

(does anyone drive a Metro in NZ?)

Re: What is REALLY uncool about NZ
 

I have owned a Metro in another life and whilst I do not currently own a flat cap my driving is probably more akin to 'flat capping' than anything else. NZs roads make me VERY nervy. I wonder why?

Re: What is REALLY uncool about NZ
 

Now that I cannot agree with.
Moving house today and out and about in a new area, and even I am astounded at the state of the cars on the road, they are just so offensively and unnecessarily loud, suped up pieces of junk.
And for what purpose - to make some spotty teenagers limpy feel a little bit bigger?

Re: What is REALLY uncool about NZ
 

Do you know. I have absolutely no idea what your post means. :lol:

If it is in reference to my post , then I will repeat. We have been forced to take leave to cover quiet times for the employer (s). We are now faced with the compulsory shut down over the Christmas period for which there will be no pay. We can't do anything with this 2 weeks which will be without pay ,other than to retrench and try to not spend anything. Now, I can quite see the ' look there are loads of free things ' type posts building up to this, but hey, trips cost petrol. Camping needs to be got to & paid for. Food needs to be bought. Bills need to be paid. and it is all at the most expensive time when it is crowded. Nil points.

We need for my husband to go back to the UK to visit his 83 year old Mum. It's a trade off , to be sure, for the move here and being allowed to use the holiday accrual would have helped this , but the employer dictates when days off will be taken . Not us !
Those could well be in short 3 or 4 day working weeks over winter. Not a week or 2 week period. .So. If he goes back, then that will be more unpaid leave. As we live week to week with no built up savings , this time it will be go into debt to achieve this.

Re: What is REALLY uncool about NZ
 

there are two many people , who move to nz expecting it to be like uk and if not why not, people keep on about migrants coming to uk should speak English, but they don't most people know about nz shut down at xmas if they didn't they never done there research properly,
whats wrong with taking your holiday pay at xmas theres so many thing appealing about nz a lot of people are trying to change that why move in the first place, and no this quote was not about you just in general

Re: What is REALLY uncool about NZ
 

IME, this is the one really really uncool thing about NZ. :( :( :(

Two things:
1) It's lovely that you enjoy taking your much earned AL over Xmas but it shouldn't be mandatory to.
2) When we move here and make NZ home that doesn't mean we just have to "put up and shut up" to integrate. I'm never just going to shrug my shoulders and say "when in Rome" about the suicide rate, the loony drivers, the domestic violence rates, the health-wealth inequality along cultural lines and so on. That doesn't make me less of a citizen of NZ, it makes me more of one ;) This is my home, I'm entitled to want to be part of its inevitable growth and change- I haven't moved here to shackle NZ to my dream of a bygone utopia.

Re: What is REALLY uncool about NZ
 

there are two different cultures between the to countries, there were things that attracted you to nz , which is why your there, but you cant change one countries cultures, for your own my point is people go to different places then complain its not the same as where they came from, i have no problem about people trying for a better life ,
nz has always shut down over xmas and the jan, and i don't think that will change all the things you mentioned in your post we still have in uk

Re: What is REALLY uncool about NZ
 

You know if you can make a business case for more flexible leave taking then make it, but using words like 'unfair' 'should' 'shouldn't' won't sway any kiwi business manager and nor should it. Kiwi managers are no less interested in making a buck than anyone else so if you can demonstrate the advantages of staying open over Christmas when everyone else is on holiday then I'm sure they'll listen. Might not be so popular with your colleagues though, most of whom are not expats and not interested in taking long trips to Britain, and managers will of course need to take into account the needs of ALL their employees, not just you.

I remember arriving in the UK a fresh faced kiwi, and being very surprised at how Brits seemed to expect their employers and their Government to look after them. It seemed almost feudal to me. This is part of the social contract you have in the UK that you don't have in NZ. There are different social contracts in NZ and no doubt local people appreciate the benefits they accrue from these. It may be a way forward to observe your kiwi colleagues and see how they cope with the trauma of such 'unfairness'. One of the things I don't like about the social contract in the UK is the degree to which you are expected to give allegiance to the organisation. You'll find this less so in NZ. Is this good or bad? Neither probably. Just different, and it takes a bit of getting used to.

Re: What is REALLY uncool about NZ
 

Nothing at all if you have holiday pay to take and that is what you choose to do with it.

It is not just expats that struggle with this you know. Many Kiwi's have family living overseas and find the same difficulty vice versa. They wish to use their paid holiday entitlement to help with visiting relatives but are unable to use this because the employer has dictated when that time off will be taken. That means they need to find more $$$ from somewhere and on a kiwi wage that can be very hard to do.

This is about choice. The OH's standard NZ employment contract states 20 days paid holiday a year. It does not state that this must be taken when the employer dictates but that is what happens. Reminds me of the 1960's /1970's when I started work. Factories had an annual shutdown and you took that holiday then and at no other time. Difference being that at least you had accrued pay to cover that period.

Re: What is REALLY uncool about NZ
 

I've driven round quite a few mountain roads both here and in North America in a whiteout. This isn't my first trip to NZ. Didn't phase us too much apart from getting a bit of a headache concentrating. I'd say the North American experience was far worse as we were miles away from anywhere remotely resembling civilsation. And actually, come to think of it, driving in the States was far far worse than anything I've experienced here.

Re: What is REALLY uncool about NZ
 

If that were the case then they would realise how much money they are losing out on by shutting down for such an extended period of time whilst the rest of the world is, erm, working :blink: Also it's not just us complaining about it at work, many of my Kiwi colleagues are furious as well at losing over a half of our annual leave entitlement at the most expensive time of year to go away at. NZ is at risk of being stuck in the dark ages whilst the rest of the world moves on, if this is the rate of change in employment law.

I couldn't disagree more. I just sat through a session at work on a proposed renumeration strategy and well over half the employees there seemed to think that it was their right to be employed by the company and that the sole purpose of being for my employer was to provide them, as individuals, with a job (not to say this doesn't happen in the UK of course, but I have never seen it so blatantly before). I was seriously surprised and asked around. Feedback from colleagues in my sector, and also in the corporate world suggests that people think they join somewhere and are entitled for a job for life. It's a massive problem here in NZ and it is VERY difficult to get rid of people here as well if they are underperforming, much harder than in the UK.

Re: What is REALLY uncool about NZ
 

You may see it as under performing, they may just see it as normal. Working practices are different in the two countries, most people move to NZ because of the slower pace of life - that applies in the workplace as much as anywhere else. Perhaps you need to step down a gear or two?

It may help to look at it this way - those people are working, paying their taxes and contributing. Thousands of others in New Zealand are very content to sit back their whole lives and live off the benefits you pay for.

They can't be that furious or they'd be voting with their feet. They will work the system to their advantage and use sick leave over the coming year to make up for what they feel they've lost :D

Saying that NZ is stuck in the dark ages made me laugh!! :rofl: did they have paid leave back then?

Re: What is REALLY uncool about NZ
 

That's just so true.

Re: What is REALLY uncool about NZ
 

I think also Genesis that letting a 15yr old behind the wheel of a car is like giving them a loaded gun i have been in NZ 35yrs now and i still cannot believe the age has never been raised esp when they can drive these souped up things that just about scrape the road they are so low....

Also when buying a car dont you think a drivers licence should be produced?I know of a young lady (aged 20) who went and bought herself a car..... has owned 3 cars been caught once already for driving with no licence which also means she has no insurance and just thinks its funny.....Drove past her dad waving the other day they just think they are so invincible it truly is ridiclous....OK rant over ive had a glass on wine so i better get down off my soap box now b4 i fall off lol.....:huh:

Re: What is REALLY uncool about NZ
 

Only just introducing a probation period? I'd say that's pretty out of date in terms of employment law when compared to other western nations.

The chopping and changing around of annual leave law is just nuts. As others have said. So you may 'laugh' at my analogy - I don't see you living over here trying to improve things and make the system better.......it's all so easy to preach at others to not complain when you aren't living it day to day.

Why thank you for making a sweeping judgement on how I live my life based on a couple of posts on a forum. You don't know what I do for a living and what pressures I might be under in the workplace - but all that aside I can assure you that the attitudes of most of the people I work with are totally professional and people work very very hard. Sometimes harder than what I experienced in the UK.

Not got much of an opinion of your fellow countrymen have you?

So what's new. That happens in the UK. It's flaws within the system. Would you prefer to see a return to the 'dark ages' in that case? Are you perchance a devotee of the Daily Mail?

In the grand scheme of things the employment law is hardly the worst thing in the world. Life here is pretty cool.

Re: What is REALLY uncool about NZ
 

Then that's a fault of the system and not necessarily of the person. The sick leave thing is very strange.

Re: What is REALLY uncool about NZ
 

True about the remoteness but you knew that before you came. Likewise the pubs. Dress sense? Unless you're in a large UK city there is no dress sense there either. I do agree about the crime tolerance though, way too lenient

Re: What is REALLY uncool about NZ
 

[QUOTE=Amazulu;8991654]The fact that NZ is a borderline 3rd world country is really uncool.[/QUOTE
Rubbish!!!]

Re: What is REALLY uncool about NZ
 

LOL NZ=1950s timewarp theory....a good example.

Re: What is REALLY uncool about NZ
 

As long as you get the work / life balance right it's do-able :) , you'll adapt to it all just give it time.

I think I was a little surprised that you didn't already know the ways of working down this end of the world, comparing NZ/Australia to the "rest of the western world" is a mistake IMO, it's in the pacific and closer to Asia than to London, Paris and NY.

Your husband's a Kiwi isn't he, how's he fitting back in to it all?

Re: What is REALLY uncool about NZ
 

It's the Kiwi way.

Re: What is REALLY uncool about NZ
 

I know Cally. It makes me mad, sad and cringe all at the same time. It just ain't that safe on the roads out there.

Re: What is REALLY uncool about NZ
 

A friend's son turned 15 got his license and soon after was involved in two accidents. The (peer) pressure on kids to drive at an early age is immense in NZ and it doesn't help that there isn't much of a public transport system.

Two kids I know back there both passed their tests after making mistakes that I think should've earned them an failure - one hit another car whilst reversing and the other failed to stop when a pedestrian was using a crossing.

Kids aren't that much different here but they have to wait until they're 16 to get their L's and then they're all for getting their own car to "have their freedom." :D I'm quite happy to provide a taxi service though.

Re: What is REALLY uncool about NZ
 

Difficult that one....18 years old in most of Europe, 16 on the Isle of Man and 17 in UK. If the age is to be related to traffic volume then the UK min age should be 21....;)

Re: What is REALLY uncool about NZ
 

From my understanding it is not so much the age at which the individual gains the license but the problem arises 2 -3 years later when the 'confidence' or 'cockiness' starts to kick in. ie if you gain your license at 15 you will be at your most dangerous at 17/18 years of age. If you gain your license at 18 years you will be at your most dangerous at 20 years, although it all depends on the individual; any 'death wish' they may have, [by that I mean an inability to see beyond tomorrow] and of course their parents attitude towards driving.

Re: What is REALLY uncool about NZ
 

In germany we have a two year probation for people who just got their driving license. If they don't follow the rules they will have to pay for expensive retraining seminars and the probation will be extended.

Re: What is REALLY uncool about NZ
 

Believe it or not (and this is a fact), the take up on insurance is roughly the same as the UK, where it is compulsory. If it was here also, just imagine what the price of it would be and do you really think that those who don't have it will start to pay for it? And then what would the penalty be for not having it?
Registration, WOF and a licence are all compulsory and it seems that half of NZ drives around without all three!!

Re: What is REALLY uncool about NZ
 

Peer pressure and trying to impress the mates/girls is a major contributing factor. Making the spring chickens drive without passengers for the first couple of years would be a good thing. Difficult to enforce and regulate though.

Re: What is REALLY uncool about NZ
 

They aren't supposed to have passengers on a restricted licence anyway but it doesn't stop them. (And most drive around on a learners as well).If they tot up their demerits they get a 3 month ban. To get that they must be stopped three times first and what are the chances that they will get stopped during the 3 months. Unlikely. So there is no deterrent.