alanmacc

I totally agree with the comments made by Genisis, we have come over here and are living pretty well compared to the UK, we have a mortgage, run 2 cars, can eat out on a regular basis, we like ot get 2 holidays a year, one a long weekend in NZ the other a longer break abroad (OZ this year)

So is NZ a higher cost of living than the UK, I think not, everybody says “ I earn far less than I did in the UK” utter tosh, in the UK you earn and live on GBP so for example the average is salary is around 27k, here the average would be closer to 38k (nz) people always covert the kiwi back to GBP, if you look at it in a direct comparison kiwi for pound I would say most people here are on a higher wage then they were in the UK, I know personally if I take it on my own experience I am on over double the salary I was on in the uk taking pound for kiwi as a direct comparison.

So you ask the question where is the better lifestyle, hands down NZ would win, IMO, less people, better climate, more land for the money …… blah blah blah

I think this topic has been covered so many times and people will reflect on their own personal experiences and either love it or hate it so to have a completely impartial view would be very hard

BEVS

For some of you out there that say you have been 'spooked' by the discussions about costs of living here, can I just say that none of us appear to be saying we want to hot foot it back to the UK. Nor that we are completely destitute.

My husband and I are financially much worse off. No doubt about that.

FWIW, in my opinion, NZ can be & is a very expensive place to live and if disposable income is much less than one is used to, then that can be very limiting. One has to overcome and adjust. It is all about a trade off. New type of life for old.

When we started out with this, there was no one to stand up and say NZ can be an expensive place to live. Incomes are low. Expenditures high. We felt we had done our sums correctly but somehow there were still things we overlooked. I suppose what that comes down to is that there is no substitute for actually living & working here. Trying it out. Suck it and see. a leap of faith.

If the pros add up for a family , then they will feel it is a good trade off. If the cons outweigh the good, then the family feels short changed and will not settle. There is no way to know how it will pan out for the individual family.

So don't be too spooked. Just do your sums and do them again.

My best tip to anyone coming out would be to keep some money back ( an emergency fund), so you can return from whence you came if you need to.

Having said that, our emergency fund has been somewhat hit of late and is looking distinctly low.

alanmacc

I do know the feeling of a low emergency fund, we almost blew ours last year building the house and are now just starting to build it back up again, but worth it to have the house, albeit it is only brick and mortar and if the worst happened we would sell up and move to a smaller place, but still would live here

BEVS

Ours has gone on making return trips to the UK because of elderly , poorly parents.
If we now needed funds for an emergency we would have to borrow. The spare cash just is not there & earnings are down due to recession.

However, what I was trying to get over to those that say they have been 'spooked' by this thread is that it isn't bleak despair, dry crusts and water.

Matewx

BEVS has spoken...

I agree with Bevs, while our situation is challenging right now it's not all doom & gloom...

As far as we are concern, we are young & greedy (not afraid to say it, yes greedy!) and always want more... MORE MORE MORE!

When we did our sums, it was on the basis that I was the visa holder & that OH would find a job in Engineering meaning he would twice (even more 2.5/3) my salary... Bad luck, it did not happen & now earns less than me... Shame we never looked at the problem this way...

That said, our situation could have happened to anyone in any country.

We've learnt that I should be the follower & not the other way round...

Heavenlyscent

Hi
I just thought I would like to add to this. We sold our 5 bed detached house here in the uk in 2005, as well as the two cars. We moved over to NZ with 4 children, 2 dogs, a cat and a 40 ft container full of furniture. We both had good jobs, but the reality of living on NZ wages were a nightmare. The disposable income here in the Uk was so much higher, which meant a quality of life we which we took for granted! We had 3 holidays abroad each year, went out when we wanted, never had to think about the money we were spending. We did have the same size house in NZ, the 2 cars, boat but because we had to think about money constantly, always eating into our savings every month from the UK, when it got to a certain amount, I called it a day, it was either stay and live that way for the rest of my life, or call it a day. We had enough money for a 20ft container, so we had to sell a lot of goods (not that I minded), we flew the dogs and cat home and enough money to fly ourselves. We consider ourselves very lucky indeed, we had the finances to do it. We came back to the Uk in 2007, and we now have a lot more disposable income, but with the recession here things are much harder than when we left the uk in 2005. We have to think, can we afford to put the heating on, never had to do that in my life, but I have no regrets about coming back to the UK. I am now at home, there are people we know in Nz who have to stay there as there is no way of ever raising enough money to fly themselves home so do be warned, it will be difficult for some people if they are on low wages and have high expectations.

lardyl

"Utter tosh" ????? - maybe your mates are on a good screw in NZ but I've yet to meet someone with whom I can have such a meaningful discussion (and that's not everyone for obvious reasons) who is better off financially in NZ than they were in the UK. Most people make in $$$ what they made in GBP and that is worse off.......unless we are living on some new fangled NZ dollar??

How can you compare the salary "pound for Kiwi"? It makes little sense as the cost of living is higher in absolute terms never mind in 1:1 terms - unless you were living in Aberdeen or somewhere and moved to the back of beyond......

All you need to do is sit down and work out how many hours you have to work in order to pay for something (like getting your eyes examined, teeth scaled, or buying a weekly shop) and then you'll see that NZ is a more expensive place to live generally than most parts of the UK, comparing like with like.....apart of course from the fact that we all admit that you couldn't live the beach-side lifestyle. Otherwise it is more expensive relative to wages, never mind how much the state takes off us in tax. This of course may change if UK-plc goes to the dogs and the receivers are called in as it may do.

I just dont see how anyone can suggest that the experiences of most ex-Pats who post here is "utter tosh". If you are so lucky, then enjoy it and let the rest of us who have to work hard to stay in the same place get on with it.

As SR said many Kiwis survive and appear to prosper because they are living on the equity that their properties made in the boom over the past 10 years or so and because that was not taxed to the hilt with capital gains tax, etc.
The system is set up for this and the Nats seem to be saying it ain't gonna change. So if you are poor, in cash/asset terms now then you will stay so under our great new Govt.

lardyl

hey mate I feel for you - but there is hope as engineers are more valued accross the ditch and at least there is some good practice over there (so I hear) - unlike in some quarters in NZ

Bo-Jangles

It would be good to see those numbers and statistics backed up with facts and reference to your source, because it is far too easy for people to get tied up in knots over what is meant by 'average'. Does it include everybody who is in work, part-timers, those that are unemployed or on benefits? I know I could live quite comfortably in the UK on 27 thousand pounds, but I would be destitute and down at the Salvation Army looking for food parcels if I only earned NZ$38k.

The oft bandied about average wage figure of $38k is not deemed a liveable wage by immigration (for good reason) and it would be nigh on impossible to get here with a job paying that. NZIS insist upon the minimum earning requirement for WTR and Work Permits of between $45 and 55k depending on the category and how long since you arrived in NZ. So we may as well forget that 'average' $38k. It's rubbish!!

You can slice and dice the numbers any way you like to suit your cause, however it is so wrong to say people will be fine on stupidly low salaries because most working people in NZ live on the average of only $38k a year - they don't.

There are other and better measure IMHO, such as the mean wage as this will tell you where the majority of people are sitting, because it takes out all the outliers on highest and lowest incomes.

From UK Statistics office survey April 2008, the mean earnings per annum from all people employed in all jobs is GBP 26,020.

Even in this last week of pathetic exchange rates in the region of NZ$2.20 to the pound, I calculate UK 26K to be in the ballpark of NZ $57k pa and under more normal circumstances it would be in the region of $65k +

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/StatBas...asp?vlnk=15187

The same data for NZ for all jobs for the quarter ended 30th June 2008 the mean quarterly gross earnings was $11,480 (x by 4 for annual earnings = NZ$45,920k).

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/StatBas...asp?vlnk=15187

To me this seems about right when you look at typical trades and office type jobs, I wouldn't expect a skilled migrant to come here for anything less that $45k, with Nurses, teachers and the like at $55k + and most IT and other professionals would be looking for $65k upwards.

Then we have the old chestnut of the NZ tax regime being more 'favourable' ; Taxed on every cent with no free pay allowance and much lower thresholds for the top rate of 38%, I don't know how anyone can say they are better off in NZ.

Do your own maths people - do your maths based on real evidence, real scenarios, worst case scenarios, take home pay versus monthly outgoings and likely achievable outcomes and then do them again and again!

Better to be safe than sorry, don't rely on a bunch of strangers on the internet, telling you 'She'll be right, we manage okay, why shouldn't you.' They don't live your life and equally you probably wouldn't want to live theirs.

MnB

Thanks Bevs, it is always going to be concerning to those of us palnning the move to hear that some people are finding life finacially stressfull in NZ, and good balanced advice is welcome.

OH & I are coming over to literally 'suck it and see', it is as you say 'a leap of faith'
Fortunately we can leave the majority of our money tied up in our uk property, I have a small monthly pension which will build in UK bank and provide us with 'emergency money' if we need it, we have no jobs lined up, will rent a house wherever?! are leaving our 'kids' in UK and have planned to have enough money to survive in NZ for a period until we get an income.
Due to the exchange rate, the period we can afford to be income free is lessening but we will both get some form of employment, dont have a family to support and have planned this move without the rose tinted glasses so we'll survive and enjoy!!

B x

whitesand

Again, an interesting thread. I would just add that although many settle in well and get on with budgeting there are still many who find it difficult. And, I still maintain that the property prices here are way over the top in relation to wages and expenses. If property was much less expensive then folks could get on with managing their incomes. However, the huge mortage expense are often the thing which trips them up.

Looking around the North Shore over the past few years I can't really believe the prices I see advertised for poor quality homes. Also, remember that NZ is advertised and promoted as a 'lifestyle improvement' - not some place where folks go to scrimp and save for the basics in life. There is indeed an incompatibility between what is promised and what folks can really achieve.

For those who do decide to take the risk I would suggest that you don't waste money on a trip here first, as no holiday can ever equate with living and working in a place. Better to put the money towards the expenses you'll meet when you eventually arrive.

Kiwi-Irish

You'd have to be mad to go there at the moment with the exchange rate ...

Genesis

Do your own maths people - do your maths based on real evidence, real scenarios, worst case scenarios, take home pay versus monthly outgoings and likely achievable outcomes and then do them again and again!

Better to be safe than sorry, don't rely on a bunch of strangers on the internet, telling you 'She'll be right, we manage okay, why shouldn't you.' They don't live your life and equally you probably wouldn't want to live theirs.[/QUOTE]

We are way better off in NZ than we were in the UK. Maybe its only because we had 20 years of UK housing equity, but alas we lost 20% of that with Hanover..but we are still better off from a day to day basis. Our standard of living has HUGELY gone up..ie what we have available to us and the finer things in life that eluded us in the UK like not having prostitues flaked out on your doorstep, drug deals at the bottom of the garden, wall to wall crime etc etc. All that goes on here but not on my doorstep as it did in Northampton. Still you can't eat a peaceful neighbourhood. My point is that not everyone is struggling. We are certainly not on a wage of around $80k with 3 kids two cars and BIG monthly bills..I mean BIG (excluding a mortgage). And strangely I have just worked out what we earned in the UK after the mortgage as a couple at 2.2 and we have exactly the same amount of annual income yet it does seem to go further...way further. We only ate good steak 3 times a year in the UK..at the most, it was soooo out of our budget in the UK..here our freezer is full of world class fillet steak. We have things we could never afford in the UK..(or fit into our homes), a spa, a pool and a huge fridge.

Shallow, but they all make life a bit more fun..well not the fridge maybe!! But we came here for a far better life in all respects. NZ delivered. So not everyone struggles. Final word. I so agree with the other posters commets above..AND I have always be a BIG warning alarm thingy about DONT do this emigration thing ANYWHERE unless the sums stack up. One thing I know is add penury into the mix of the emigration saga and you have disaster in most cases.

Madmaxdeux

Ok time to add our 10cents worth

Those of you who think the exchange rate is bad well I first came over to NZ when the exchange rate was $2.12 to the pound thats 47p to the $. So I guess that made me mad then did it?

Not really I adapted avoiding the British branded stuff and even Mars bars (I figured chocolate products expensive early on), the cost of running a Car was and is cheap and at the time being young free and single not much of a drama.

Lets fast forward a few years when we (no longer single) moved over here and to us the exchange rate was irrelevant all we had was just under $10,000and thats how we started. Things did not go to plan and the income was not very high but we got through and yes adapted!

Now we have our own home and 3 vehicles and a home loan of $85,000 which the only reason we have that sized loan is because it is what we would have paid back on rent each week.

Heres the adaption part we adapted and experianced surviving on $500 per week! Yes it can be done and still run (just) two cars.

The biggest irony for us is that this so called recession has been an employment boom for us and we both work in the toursim industry but that said we still dont earn big bucks.

It boils down to location, location,location. To often you read people migrating straight to Auckland well thats your first mistake in the financial suck you dry NZ.

We dont think of ourselves as poor yes financially it may look that way compared to the UK and even to some kiwi budgets. But we are happy with our location and probably better off in many ways except cash to the UK.

Money does not buy happiness it may help but overall our life style is better than in the UK.

You adapt!

I look at it this way 150 years ago people came to NZ on sail boats the option to go home was not that easy. I guess its that colonial spirit that keeps you going no matter what.

Your not POOR when you move to New Zealand you are challenged.....and when your challenged what do you do? Adapt!!!!!

Genesis

[

It boils down to location, location,location. To often you read people migrating straight to Auckland well thats your first mistake in the financial suck you dry NZ.



Your not POOR when you move to New Zealand you are challenged.....and when your challenged what do you do? Adapt!!!!![/QUOTE]

Sooooooo true re location. We would not be as comfortable as we are probably anywhere else in the country. A good life and house are inexpensive in dull, borish Palmy. Which is nice.