Re: This wasnt supposed to happen, we are now POOR
 

Its hard to try and be a local, when the truth is your not a local, and Kiwis know this, they have there friends and stick to them. not all but most.
I spoke to kiwis about this when I was there. They said the brits have come over and pushed the price of things through the roof, when the exchange rate was very good for the move to NZ, there little bit of paradise on the other side of the world has been discovered, and some say ruined.
Alot of kiwis dont want to get to know the new english neighours or let there kids mix because they are afraid you'll move, and they or the kids or both will get upset, so they make a effort to keep there distance, because the english do move around abit.

Re: This wasnt supposed to happen, we are now POOR
 

The one thing that is worrying me about moving to New Zealand is if we will be able to find jobs! It seems the current job climate is very bad :( Do dishwashing jobs pay the bills? :blink:

Re: This wasnt supposed to happen, we are now POOR
 

Unemployment as i said in another thread is at a 15 year high. Things are very tricky on the job front here. Even nursing jobs are not available where they used to be plentiful. Look at Welsh Wales posting and indeed the thought of coming to NZ just now IS very sobering unless you have a cast iron job offer and a fair bit of wedge behind you. caveat emptor aye?

Re: This wasnt supposed to happen, we are now POOR
 

We have an Aussie visa but still chose NZ over Oz - yes, we know we'll be poorer in dollars, but hoping for a better work life balance. (Oh, and teaching is far easier to get into in NZ;)

Re: This wasnt supposed to happen, we are now POOR
 

This is going to sound harsh but. . .

That is the biggest load of bollocks i've read on here so far

Re: This wasnt supposed to happen, we are now POOR
 

To be fair we have had this .....

...actually said to us .

This is also reasonable as it happens the world over doesn't it. Like sticking with like. Of course, as the statement says, not all are like this but there are those that are just like this.

Re: This wasnt supposed to happen, we are now POOR
 

Sorry but I find that statement amusing. Ask a kiwi where their family are from - 8/10 will probably originate from UK :rofl:

Re: This wasnt supposed to happen, we are now POOR
 

It is quite funny I agree. Winston Peters was particularly amusing when he used to go on about Asian immigration numbers. He himself is part Chinese.
However there is no denying the fact that a number of NZers are/were resentful of new arrivals out bidding them at auctions for houses and land. Very sad when you can't afford a home in your own country. Personally I say the more the merrier. The government has been advised to consider opening the country to unskilled workers. The question I'm now wondering is , which one of these languages should the kids be learning - Mandarin or Cantonese ?:D

Re: This wasnt supposed to happen, we are now POOR
 

It's not bollocks if you are a 'true expat' with no long term intention beyond a few years....I don't blame them for filtering me out either for all the reasons that poster listed.....most of my friends are expats who have lived here for ages and are staying...but not Brits and they are often married to Kiwis but have never quite 'fitted in' completely.

It's like anywhere though, if you are religious (i'm not) the local Church community will make you very welcome...ditto a sports club to a certain extent......it's easier in an English speaking country to make friends with locals than in other places .....but it's maybe not as easy as you might think.

Also most people are too busy out earning to waste time making new friends...only one of my friends actually works and only part-time..the older you are...the harder it is as people are more settled in their own friendship circles.

The worst thing is not having access to the close relatives/friends at for instance Christmas...I absolutely hate that. This year teaming up with another Expat family...previous years have gone on holiday.

So it's not bollocks just because your experience may have been different.
I think service is fantastic here....Genesis doesn't. We're probably both right..our realities are different.

Re: This wasnt supposed to happen, we are now POOR
 

True and usually at least one grown up member of the family will be over in UK at the time of the conversation in my experience...but it doesn't mean they are favourably disposed to Brits or the UK.
Some are, some aren't. The ones who have lived overseas themselves for some time then come back are the most open, probably since they know what it is like to move country.

Re: This wasnt supposed to happen, we are now POOR
 

yet those who are selling the houses and land are only
to happy to take the money from the migrants and those who live
next door are happy to as it reflects favourably on the value of their property.
If more kiwi's got on the property ladder instead of throwing their money away
on renting they would also benefit from the "migrants money".

Re: This wasnt supposed to happen, we are now POOR
 

How are they going to get on the property ladder if they can't afford to ? NZ wages are low and they simply can't compete with wealthier individuals coming in with Euros, pounds or whatever. Gotta dash...

Re: This wasnt supposed to happen, we are now POOR
 

IMO renting isn't "throwing money away"....
If you don't have the leverage or don't want to be on the property ladder then why not rent?
Makes more sense in NZ than in the UK as the Govt (ie you and I as taxpayers) are subsidising rentals.........

Re: This wasnt supposed to happen, we are now POOR
 

Never knew that, I've always thought renting is a bit like throwing money down the drain. Rent isn't all that cheap though and I wonder what it would be like if it wasn't subsidised :huh:

Re: This wasnt supposed to happen, we are now POOR
 

yeah they are expensive if you consider how the houses are built/maintained and take into account wages.....BUT.....when interest rates are where they tend to be for NZ then morgages are even more expensive (in relative terms).
This is at least partly because the IRD lets landlords write off "losses" on rental properties against their income tax liablities and there is still no capital gains tax on rental properties so the landlords (and hopefully their tenants) are being subsidised by the NZ tax payer.
This may well change in the not too distant future though.........

Re: This wasnt supposed to happen, we are now POOR
 

Property prices havent always been at the level they are now
and many kiwi's could afford to buy if the wanted to.
The fact that thay choose to continue to rent, in my opinion gives
me the right to tell them to shut ****** up when they start moaning about house prices.
I arrived here with money in the bank because in the past i chose to buy my house
Paying the mortgage wasnt always easy but as time passed it got earier.
I sold at what was possibly the worst time to sell for years in the uk.
The paper value of the house had dropped by around £40k but i didnt care,
i still made over 300% profit on the price i'd payed 12 years earlier.
If a kiwi had done the same here he/she would be in the same position as i was.
That fact that they thought renting would be better in the long run is their own fault.
Even now when times are tough i can sleep sound in the knowledge that no matter what happens
my home is mine and i will not have to cap go in hand to anyone sponging for bennefits.

Re: This wasnt supposed to happen, we are now POOR
 

I think it may be best to move these posts re. Emma23 & finding work into a thread of their own before they get buried.
That way Emma23 can clearly see what possible help and suggestions are there for her and her partner.

Posts moved to HERE.

If you want the thread title tweaked , let me know.

---------

and now also for Kija in respect of advice about taxation and the 4 yr amnesty.
Post to be found in a new thread HERE

Re: This wasnt supposed to happen, we are now POOR
 

Isn't she just great our little BEVS... :wub:

Re: This wasnt supposed to happen, we are now POOR
 

Thank you for that! (",)

Re: This wasnt supposed to happen, we are now POOR
 

Eh? Has someone who stayed out of the housing market because they thought the whole thing was overheated and prices too high (an opinion rather supported by the evidence) wronged you in some way? If someone maintains the opinion that house prices are out of alignment with the rest of the economy how does that give you a "right" to tell them to "shut ****** up" because they didn't ignore their own opinion and buy? Your position is just weird.

If I went into a shop on Monday, found that oranges are a quid each and considered that too expensive, am I supposed to stop thinking they're too expensive on Friday when they're a fiver? If I still think they're expensive, what sort of response would I deserve?

"Wow, I don't know how people can afford these oranges."

"Shut ***** up! You should have bought them on Monday. I bought lots of oranges on Monday with my credit card, they're not expensive. Bloody scrounger!"

Talk about wanting to pull the ladder up behind you.

Re: This wasnt supposed to happen, we are now POOR
 

God are oranges that expensive in NZ?:eek:;)

Re: This wasnt supposed to happen, we are now POOR
 

Your trying to over simplify the matter.
Everybody knows property when bought correctly is a good investment.
If they choose not to buy thats fine but dont
then complain when those who did make money
and are able to live mortgage / rent free after working hard
to pay it off and reep the rewards of their labour.

Re: This wasnt supposed to happen, we are now POOR
 

Personally I've always thought renting was dead money. Seeing what some people are prepared to pay in rent a week it doesn't seem too far off what we pay for a hefty mortgage.

And at the end of the day I'm not lining someone else's pocket for them to get rich whilst I still have nothing to show for it.

I'd rather juggle like mad and be in my own home which I'm free to hang as many pictures as I damn well please in, decorate how I like, keep as many pets as I like and know that I will be the one benefitting when the repayment morgage is paid off - not some landlord, and any increase in house value will be mine to benefit from and an investment for my future.

Re: This wasnt supposed to happen, we are now POOR
 

Me too. i have never rented..ever. Apart from bedsits when I was 18-20. However I can see the benfits of renting..its just not for me. I like doing 'my thang' in my place..fxxk the landlord.

Re: This wasnt supposed to happen, we are now POOR
 

If you can't get a mortgage or afford the repayments and still have some quality of life, then renting is NOT throwing money down the drain!! That's really an insult to those who have no choice but to rent. Renting is providing yourself and/or those you love and care for with a roof over the head. A safe, secure envirioment in which to live (hopefully). So on that score it's a VERY loving and sensible thing to do. Only trouble is when rents take up too much a slice of the income pie. Govts should intervene and greedy landlords should be held accountable.

John Howard as PM in OZ let the market 'sort it out'. All that did was squeeze an already existing underclass out on the streets and into makeshift temp accommodation. This extended to include those who had jobs and mortgages but who could no longer meet mortgage repayments, but could pay higher rentals.


NZ and OZ govts need to take greater reponsibility to those who suffer in their little 'economic paradises' by creating greater levels of social housing therby reducing waiting lists, and enforcing less discriminatory policies.

I'm curious as to what you mean by rent subsidies? The only cheap rent in NZ I know of is housing NZ. I can, as an example, still rent a unit or house even, in many parts of Melbourne for less than the equivalent in many NZ locations, and there's no govt subsidy here. If you mean reant assistance/accommodation supplement, that payment has been around for well over 30 yrs (an indicator that those on benefits or low incomes have for decades needed some genuine assistance to help them), or would you suggest they should live on foodbanks and their children go without shoes?

Re: This wasnt supposed to happen, we are now POOR
 

I believe this to still be so.

FWIW , I grew up from the age of 8 - 18 in a rented council house in the UK. Without that , my family would have been in dire straits at the time . Prior to that , my family actually 'squatted' in a two room downstairs flat with an outside loo as there was no place to go.

Social housing is necessary and I would never knock those that rent. We have good Kiwi friends who now have 3 kids and still rent.

For me though and that is perhaps because of what my family went through and for my husband who grew up on a rough council estate also, we are grateful to have been able to buy our own properties in our lives .

We worked hard and long hours for this. There again my parents and Mr BEVS parents also worked long and hard hours. They just couldn't manage to get enough together to buy a house at that time.

Re: This wasnt supposed to happen, we are now POOR
 

A great balanced post Bevs. I'd never knock anyone for owning a house: it's something everyone I guess would like to aspire to, but as you put so well, both you and hubby's parents though hard workers never realised that status. And for them and all that follow, and who follow us, let's hope affordable, safe, housing (state or private) continues to be available for all who need it. :)

Re: This wasnt supposed to happen, we are now POOR
 

kiwi child, I didn't mean it in an insulting way and I apologise if it was taken that way. What I should have added, is that in our case, renting would be money down the drain because as I have been learning on this thread is that it's better to buy outright (if you can) rather than rent or pay mortgage. I'm not familiar with the whole mortgage system and people were kindly explaining its pros and cons to me. About rent being subsidised, this is what I was told.

OH and I have been debating whether it's better to sell up here and use the money to buy or rent there knowing that if we fail or don't get to go there, the way the real estate market works here, we wouldn't be able to get back on the property ladder here in Egypt. I would prefer to eventually buy, he wants to rent.

Once again apologies, I never meant it in a bad way.

Re: This wasnt supposed to happen, we are now POOR
 

I wasn't oversimplifying anything. I was responding to your statement that you have a right to abuse people who rent and "moan about house prices". You said nothing about them criticising house owners for their good fortune in cashing in on a generational credit-fuelled property boom.

Enjoy your windfall, but don't kid yourself that the rise in house prices and your luck in being in a position to benefit from them has anything to do with your hard work. It takes just as much work to pay a pound in rent or put a pound in your savings account as it does to pay a pound on a mortgage. Owning a house isn't a moral victory.

Re: This wasnt supposed to happen, we are now POOR
 

Good fortune, windfall, luck? how about 3 years of me and wife working all day on earning money and working all night with only 4 hrs sleep to renovate a Victorian terraced house with her also studying for her PhD 7 days a week none stop so that we never again had to pay for a landlords luxuries...that is a moral victory!:thumbup:

Re: This wasnt supposed to happen, we are now POOR
 

It's not right to think that renting is wasting money. It's more complicated than that. It depends on circumstances. Also, that comment sounds very much like an estate agent's lament - as they make more on selling than they do on renting.

If folks are only intending to rent for a short time then it makes sense. Not everyone makes a fortune buying and selling property and many make a loss, especially buy-to-let landlords.

Not all state housing is bad. Some are in good areas and many respectable folks live in state accommodation in the UK. Many in Europe simply rent and have more available cash to invest or spend. In fact, the UK, Oz and NZ would be the places which appear to have the 'must get on the property ladder' greatest obsesson.

Re: This wasnt supposed to happen, we are now POOR
 

I didn't say no-one who has made money on property has put in any hard-work, but no-one's individual effort created the property boom. Renovation may well see a profit, but the major source of property development profits before 2007 was not from added value kitchen units, fresh paint and sanding the floorboards -- it was from the market being pumped by credit. The fact is that I've known plenty of people who have renovated houses but didn't happen to do so while property boomed and made nothing or even lost money overall. They didn't put in any less "hard-work" than someone doing exactly the same when it did.

The luck is in having the resources to enter the market at the right time and the ability to actually exit at the right time. I don't have any issue with people who have met with that good fortune but I do have a significant issue with considering that those who's lives haven't synchronised with the property cycle have no right to an opinion about house prices. Additionally, it's particularly depressing to read that sort of opinion when we're still dealing with the fallout from the credit bubble that helped push prices high.

That anyone even raises an eyebrow at the opinion that houses are expensive in New Zealand would surprise me when even a glance at the income statistics would explain where the opinion comes from. That someone would think they have a right to jump down the throat of anyone expressing that opinion... well, I'm totally gob-smacked.

Re: This wasnt supposed to happen, we are now POOR
 

No offence taken Kija. If you can buy a property outright and have no mortgage, then that is the best option (provided you have researched and lived in the area for a little while first maybe, so as to be sure it is where you want to live).

My concern is really for those who struggle to afford the rent, let alone a mortgage. The right wingers tend to slate them all as 'losers' without so much of a breath of understanding about the complexities of factors such as structural oppression.

I think though that financially secure migrants who can purchase a property outright would be wise to be discreet about the fact. Locals anywhere can feel put out by what they perceive as rich foreigners coming in and paying top dollar for homes, which helps push up the prices and lock locals without substantial savings, equity etc, and on modest to average incomes, out of the property market.

Re: This wasnt supposed to happen, we are now POOR
 

The Force is strong with you, Jedi Princess.:)

Re: This wasnt supposed to happen, we are now POOR
 

And with you, sweet-toothed one. :thumbup:

Re: This wasnt supposed to happen, we are now POOR
 

Property has doubled in value on average every 7 years to 9 years,
always has done and always will.
The thing i take credit for is having the foresight and determination to ensure
i was in a position to take advantage of this constant spiral.


When i was younger and planning to get married, at a time when my mates
were buying flash cars, taking lots of holidays, buying the latest fashions,
I and my wife to be were both working in relatively low paid jobs.
we took home less than £80 a week between us in the early mid to late 80's.
we worked every hour we could and picked up extra work where we could.
Everything we made went into savings to get us our first home, a run down
terrace in a run down area. we fixed it up and made a little money on the sale.
We used that as a bigger deposit on a better home, took out a big mortgage
and worked like trojans to pay extra on top of the mortgage.
This hard work has now payed off and when we arrived in NZ we were able to
buy a lovely new house and enjoy the fruits of our labour.
Another thing you may like to know is that when buying in NZ we chose a house
that a builder had had for sale for almost a year before we arrived. it had sat
empty for a year.
We used this fact to negotiate on the price and ended up paying over $80000
less than the asking price. The real estate agent, who is now a very close family friend
could not believe we got the house for the price we did.
So you can see, i did not pay "top dollar" for anything and any kiwi who thought
the house was out of their price range could, if they were prapared to do a little
research, have bought the house for the same price we did.
Now onto your other point, i have no beef with people who rent,
my parents rented, i was raised in a council house as was my wife. My beef is with
those who whinge and whine about house prices and fools like you who try to
take the moral highground to make people like me feel bad for working hard to
get the things i want.
As i see it i have EARNED the right to tell anyone who thinks my position on the property ladder
has been nothing but good fortune to get ****** and that
includes pseudo socialists like you.

Re: This wasnt supposed to happen, we are now POOR
 

:thumbup:

Re: This wasnt supposed to happen, we are now POOR
 

Thanks for the advice kiwi child and thank you for being so gracious, I honestly meant no offence to anyone. Of course we would rent till we familiarised ourselves with the area and got jobs :fingerscrossed: this would take at least a year or maybe more.

Countries are so different, here in Egypt they're only starting the mortgage system. The real estate market is out of control, property is very expensive in relation to wages. We're not a credit driven society, hence my many questions about mortgages etc, I'm clueless :o . We have a nice house but not much in the bank! It's all we've got so we're very scared of selling, spending the money in NZ and ending up totally skint so ideally we'd like to use it on a house so our capital doesn't get spent.

People who rent are definitely not losers, it's all very subjective. Ideally we would have liked to rent and not sell our house in Egypt but we wouldn't be able to afford to do that in the long run.

Re: This wasnt supposed to happen, we are now POOR
 

Nicely put. It's easy to get peed off with those vultures circling the property market, trying to talk it into a crash and hoping those of who worked and saved hard in our early days will lose our equity to make up for others' fecklessness.

Re: This wasnt supposed to happen, we are now POOR
 

Hate to say it but there is more than one way of looking at the property escalator and the more I look at it the more I am coming round to the Bernard Hickey view that all this profiteering and the daft tax system we have in NZ is bad for us, bad for our kids and is probably going to take the economy down in the end.
I have money tied up in property and have made some equity from price rises but I fail to see that anyone has the right to do so and that somehow they have earned it by saving and paying their mortgage.
I'd agree that some people who spend all they earn on "fecklessness" get what they deserve, but that is not everyone and if affordability keeps heading in the wrong direction then we are more at risk of losing our kids to more affordable places to live/work. If you are all happy with that then I'd think again and ask yourselves where all the tax dollars will come from to fund NZ when you are retired? Nowhere if all the graduates and qualified people can't afford to live here because house price inflation has pushed them out. And then there are all the essential workers who need housing to be affordable.
Property values in NZ are now at their highest ever - again - and this will in the end mean more pain for us with interest rates being artificially high, the overheating property market being reigned in using that blunt instrument and manufacturing going to the dogs. All so that we can keep "investing" in homes, rentals and batches rather than putting our savings somewhere that can be a use to the companies and entrepeneurs of NZ - and I am not talking the real estate companies.
Let's face it we live in a low-cost economy, in terms of the OECD anyway, but if housing costs take up too much of people's income then it will be bad for the nation. The bind in NZ is that so many people take the state tax breaks so they can make money in property off the income tax system and so many people have their savings and even borrowed money tied up in this. Which means if there is a correction it will hit all those investing landlords in the pocket. But from what I can see many of them couldn't really complain as they have been taking their cash off the system hand over fist for long enough.
Indeed I know kiwis who's job it is to sell property investments for companies that use leverage just to make money, well a capital gain at least, whilst making a loss on the rental and so avoiding tax. Of course you can then claim benefits from Work and Income and/or tax credits from IRD and be quids in. All down to Aunty Helen raising the rate of income tax and allowing "negative rental gearing" - making a loss on rents to offset against your income tax liabilities. :rolleyes: