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Urgent Help Required!!! - moved to main forum

Urgent Help Required!!! - moved to main forum

Old May 25th 2008, 7:55 am
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Default Urgent Help Required!!! - moved to main forum

Please everybody, I am looking for a balancing point of view. I have just had a very negative conversation with someone who is leaving Auckland after 4.5 years for Australia.
he said expect to get your car 'done' twice a year, that the 'kids' are out of control with drugs and alcohol abuse rife and that the police and court system have no effect and youths look at the fines system as a challenge setting each other 'targets' of $10,000/20,000, that there are random attacks by some ethnic groups on white people walking at night, that NZ society is very insular with emigrant groups sticking very much to themselves and their own clique, that kiwis worked went home and watched tele and watched a rugby game at the weekend and that was their life! There are no prospects for the children and if NZ was as great as everybody makes out there would be a lot more people trying to get there! (Apparently 4500 people a week are LEAVING!).
When he was booking his flight out he was told by a person at Air NZ that even on a sunday Air NZ had 30 operators answering calls and that 90% of their business is 'one-way' tickets to Oz!!
I know that the brochures paint a rosy picture and fully expected that the reality of life in NZ wouldn't be quite the same, but to be honest I wasn't prepared for the negative aspects to be quite so 'in-your-face'.
I have a job offer in Auckland, and would really like to give 100% to this move, but my prime movers in this whole descision to emigrate was to give my kids a better chance of a good life and so their world wouldn't just consist of..Going to the pub on any given night,and then getting slaughtered at the weekend! as seems to be the tendency here in the UK
So please everybody....help
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Old May 26th 2008, 2:53 am
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Default Re: Urgent Help Required!!! - moved to main forum

So, that one person's point of view.
The main problem I guess is that wherever you live in the world, they'll be people and sad as it is not everyone's nice. There will always be crime, random acts of violence, out of control kids and adults. Its best maybe to accept that's the world we live in? I don't live in Auckland. I live in a semi-rural town just north of Christchurch so I can't give you any specifics about Auckland but I do see plenty of posters on here who do live in Auckland and love it. As with every town/city, there are some nice areas to live with good schools and some not so nice areas. New Zealand, like any other country, is not paradise. In my experience at least, on the whole it is a very friendly place. My kids love it here, they've both made good friends and enjoy the freedom from a materialistic lifestyle. But there's no magic wand to it. The girls at school still roam in packs being bitchy and picking on each other, the cool 'it' girls and the geeks and the ones inbetween, the boys still fall out, have a punch up and then go play footie. Work's work no matter where you are and the bills all still need paying.

What the guy who's leaving Auckland told you wasn't wrong. Yes it can be like that. What major city in any country doesn't have stuff like that?

And yes a lot of kiwi's we know work hard, go to bed early, don't go out much as they're all trying to pay off their mortgages quickly, spend Saturdays running round supporting their kids at various sporting venues and are very friendly and helpful without ever letting you get beyond polite conversation and being 'mates'.

But so what? We'll have been in NZ for a year tomorrow and it hasn't been all plain sailing but I can tell you, hand on heart, that we're happier here than we ever were in the UK. We don't regret coming and if I won the lottery tomorrow I would not go back to the UK.

The only real way to see if it suits you is to try it.

Last edited by TeamEmbo; May 26th 2008 at 3:14 am.
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Old May 26th 2008, 3:16 am
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Default Re: Urgent Help Required!!! - moved to main forum

Originally Posted by Riverside
When he was booking his flight out he was told by a person at Air NZ that even on a sunday Air NZ had 30 operators answering calls and that 90% of their business is 'one-way' tickets to Oz!!
I used to work for reservations at Air NZ in Auckland (have moved to another department but still have very good friends working there) and can certainly say this isn't true...I dunno where they got that info from


I've been in Auckland nearly 3 years and much happier than what I used to be when I lived in London and Paris...although my circumstances are a bit different than yours (no kids, moved with Kiwi OH). NZ isn't utopia, it's got its problems just like any other country. In any case, I wouldn't make a decision based on someone else's opinion

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Old May 26th 2008, 3:25 am
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Default Re: Urgent Help Required!!! - moved to main forum

Originally Posted by Riverside
Please everybody, I am looking for a balancing point of view. I have just had a very negative conversation with someone who is leaving Auckland after 4.5 years for Australia.
he said expect to get your car 'done' twice a year, that the 'kids' are out of control with drugs and alcohol abuse rife and that the police and court system have no effect and youths look at the fines system as a challenge setting each other 'targets' of $10,000/20,000, that there are random attacks by some ethnic groups on white people walking at night, that NZ society is very insular with emigrant groups sticking very much to themselves and their own clique, that kiwis worked went home and watched tele and watched a rugby game at the weekend and that was their life! There are no prospects for the children and if NZ was as great as everybody makes out there would be a lot more people trying to get there! (Apparently 4500 people a week are LEAVING!).
When he was booking his flight out he was told by a person at Air NZ that even on a sunday Air NZ had 30 operators answering calls and that 90% of their business is 'one-way' tickets to Oz!!
I know that the brochures paint a rosy picture and fully expected that the reality of life in NZ wouldn't be quite the same, but to be honest I wasn't prepared for the negative aspects to be quite so 'in-your-face'.
I have a job offer in Auckland, and would really like to give 100% to this move, but my prime movers in this whole descision to emigrate was to give my kids a better chance of a good life and so their world wouldn't just consist of..Going to the pub on any given night,and then getting slaughtered at the weekend! as seems to be the tendency here in the UK
So please everybody....help
The only real way to judge it is by getting out here and trying it on for size, some of the issues mentioned are problems in NZ society, but it sounds to me (and I don't live in Auckland) that the claims being made by this person are fairly wild and over the top in the scale he is claiming!

Its also sounds like a bitter person giving you this commentary, hope they realise Oz is no utopia too!!

Compared to the UK the stuff your kids will be able to get up to is immense, so many parks and open spaces and beaches and different sports and the water/rivers and countryside, sure they will love it here

NZ has issues like every other country in the world, even Aussie where all these millions of Kiwi's are going has issues, if you can get past the fact its not paradise here but that you can live a good life here and enjoy NZ for all of the good things (which WAY outnumber any of these potential bad issues) then its a great place to be

I have loads of Kiwi friends, some through work some randoms and some through various groups I have joined, I have British/Irish mates, and some assorted random foreigners, its one big melting pot here and you just be friendly and get out and meet folks, and a lot of Kiwi's I know love going out during the week/weekends for drinks, dinner, cinema, sport, walks, whatever

If 4500 a week are leaving, that means about 250,000 a year, which means 16% of the population of this country leave every year, well thats just bollox...
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Old May 26th 2008, 4:56 am
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Default Re: Urgent Help Required!!! - moved to main forum

I think it really depends whether the job you have been offered pays enough to allow you to live in a 'nice' part of Auckland. If you live in the right area just as in the UK, there will be less likelihood of the negatives being in your face.
NZ has high rates for murder, child abuse, male teenage suicide and asthma to name just a few in comparison with other OEDC countries (I wasn't aware of these before I came here).
My car window has been smashed in once parked on the road in a good area of Wellington in 12 months of living here.....the answer is use your garage..I don't as it takes too long to get the car out in the morning!
I would say the account you were given was a bit 'Daily Mail' but if you will be struggling financially here, I personally don't think the move is worth it and it also depends whether you are happy at work, at home in the UK, whether you see a lot of your extended family socially and still want to, because you certainly won't once you are here.

Have you ever been here? Because the isolation compared to Europe from other countries but also within NZ itself is truly mind-blowing.....if you like a quiet life revolving around sport, it may be for you...if you don't then maybe it won't. Great cafe and restaurant culture in Auckland and Wellington though.Films come to the cinema within a reasonable timescale...not much theatre in Auckland, more in Wellington.

A hard one, I love the UK (and its proximity to other European cultures and languages) and I love Wellington, but I maybe wouldn't want to be here for the rest of my days....right now I'm trying to decide when to make a return visit and money isn't even the issue as it would often be,..it's stuff like going that far for a viable length of time versus how much of your OH's annual leave do you really want to waste on a UK summer...you get the picture?

You can definitely escape consumerism here and have a simpler life at a slower pace and that certainly has its appeal...and the scenery is fantastic....while the important things such as medical facilities are on the whole at European levels.

I do find my life less stressful here despite or maybe because of the isolation...despite what others say I have had nothing but universally excellent service here - had some more today, the air intake grill on our central heating system had come off and a balloon went up there...guy came out same day to my timescale, sorted it out and when I mentioned how expensive the system was to run, he re-programmed my whole weekly timer for me saying I would get better results by having the heater on more often but at lower temperatures..keeping it at a more constant temperature...well I'm willing to give it a try.
That's the other thing, research the wooden housing minus heating before you come - that's the biggest culture shock of all I think.

Sorry I've rambled a bit....not sure this will help but it certainly isn't all doom and gloom but it does depend what you enjoy doing in your spare time I think.

The only thing I do miss apart from people, is variety in architecture but it's made up for by the scenery.
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Old May 26th 2008, 6:39 am
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Default Re: Urgent Help Required!!! - moved to main forum

Originally Posted by Riverside
Please everybody, I am looking for a balancing point of view. I have just had a very negative conversation with someone who is leaving Auckland after 4.5 years for Australia.
he said expect to get your car 'done' twice a year, that the 'kids' are out of control with drugs and alcohol abuse rife and that the police and court system have no effect and youths look at the fines system as a challenge setting each other 'targets' of $10,000/20,000, that there are random attacks by some ethnic groups on white people walking at night, that NZ society is very insular with emigrant groups sticking very much to themselves and their own clique, that kiwis worked went home and watched tele and watched a rugby game at the weekend and that was their life! There are no prospects for the children and if NZ was as great as everybody makes out there would be a lot more people trying to get there! (Apparently 4500 people a week are LEAVING!).
When he was booking his flight out he was told by a person at Air NZ that even on a sunday Air NZ had 30 operators answering calls and that 90% of their business is 'one-way' tickets to Oz!!
I know that the brochures paint a rosy picture and fully expected that the reality of life in NZ wouldn't be quite the same, but to be honest I wasn't prepared for the negative aspects to be quite so 'in-your-face'.
I have a job offer in Auckland, and would really like to give 100% to this move, but my prime movers in this whole descision to emigrate was to give my kids a better chance of a good life and so their world wouldn't just consist of..Going to the pub on any given night,and then getting slaughtered at the weekend! as seems to be the tendency here in the UK
So please everybody....help
Well it is good to see that someone has pointed out the very worst aspects, and that you sat up and listened; albeit that they would appear to have given you the somewhat disgruntled worst case scenario. It pays to be prepared for the worst.

Most of what you were told wasn't lies, just maybe a set of unfortunate circumstances from this person's experiences lead them to have such a dim view of life in NZ.

True, many are leaving for the riches on offer in Oz.

True, in certain parts of Auckland it is very possible your car will be damaged or broken into, in other's this is not the case. I have lived in Auckland for just over three years and have not had any experience of such, nor has (touches wood) anyone that I personally know of. I don't know of anyone who has been attacked, or mugged, although I have heard a few incidences on the news, again usually late night random attacks, wrong place, wrong time events that can happen anywhere.

There are indeed plenty of out of control kids, (hoodied, hoons, kids doped up on P etc) however, unless your out in the streets late at night they are not going to bother you one iota, apart possibly from the noise of their fat exhaust pipes, racing, wheelspins, and donuts. Choose where you live carefully, avoid living by long, straight, main roads and choose the quieter streets and cul-de-sacs in which they will have no interest in racing. I live in a very quiet road, but can still hear the idiots every now and again, off in the distance racing somewhere.

I have yet to see any of these 'feared' mobs and gang members.

You won't be off down the pub every night getting slaughtered because there's only one way to get anywhere and that is to drive. Majority of family type people do not go out much and tend to have people round to their houses for dinner / drinks or have a meal in a local restaurant. There's not much in the way of going 'up to town' for a night out.

Most houses do indeed have all the lights out by 10pm. Everyone has got to get up early to beat the traffic in the morning, get to the gym, go jogging or whatever. Also many say it is to save on heating the house, houses are so cold there's only one thing for it, go to bed. This does not mean you have to do the same.

This forum has plenty of information and debate on the negative aspects of Auckland and NZ as a whole, the best you can do is have a good read, take the comments on board and see what measure you personally can take, to reduce the impact they will have on your life.

Auckland is the proverbial curates egg, it has it good and bad bits - it's certainly not all doomed, or horrid. Although some bits could do with being flattened and started again.
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Old May 26th 2008, 8:05 am
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Default Re: Urgent Help Required!!! - moved to main forum

Think about it logically, if everyone is leaving Auckland at such a weekly rate the place should be near enough empty in some areas., if not all

I know people in Auckland who would never leave.

When I sat my theory driving the gentleman in the office was from the UK, he loves it where he lives, Waitakere - 20 minutes from the centre of Auckland, easy driving distance of a number of beaches, hot water springs, vineyards, orchards and the house prices are reasonable.

No place is ever all bad.

We moved from Doncaster where if you believe the TV and statistics had the highest rate of Aids, alcoholics, drug addicts, and teenage pregnancy in the UK, it was obviously well hidden from view - never noticed any trouble in 17 years.

Some people have a half empty glass rather than half full - only concentrate on negative.

Drivers are bad.
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Old May 26th 2008, 9:31 am
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Default Re: Urgent Help Required!!! - moved to main forum

Originally Posted by Riverside
my prime movers in this whole descision to emigrate was to give my kids a better chance of a good life and so their world wouldn't just consist of..Going to the pub on any given night,and then getting slaughtered at the weekend! as seems to be the tendency here in the UK
From what Ive seen, getting slaughtered at the weekend is whats its all about in NZ. At least in the UK there are some decent pubs where you can avoid the excesses and have a quite social drink. Here , there are very few pubs and most of those are full on chaos at weekends with bouncers outside etc.

Last time I went to Auckland on business I spent quite a bit of time walking the city centre and no-one came near me. But I have to say there were stacks of loser types hanging around, and the car drivers/hoons have to be seen to be believed. Total idiots.

Have to say Id rather live in England than NZ,but then perhaps Id probably rather live in Auckland than London.
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Old May 26th 2008, 10:34 am
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Smile Re: Urgent Help Required!!! - moved to main forum

I think it comes down to what and where are you coming from and what life changes are you hoping for in NZ. Make sure you examine your reasons thoroughly....what are your interests/hobbies...?

If you are sports mads, enjoy outdoor pursuits, appreciate stunning scenery and landscapes, come over with money and have a well paid job to goto then NZ maybe what you are looking for.

However if you are into history, mixed culture, varied architecture, antiques, theatre, museums, trips to Europe, variety and good shopping, think twice about a life in NZ.

Schooling like anywhere can vary, it pays to do your homework, most operate on catchment areas so check them out before renting/buying.

Housing I find is generally of poorer build quality than UK, heating is random, lots of damp and condensation issues. Have never know so many kids with asthma and other related problems. There are some serious dodgey parts that you wouldn't want to live in the same as any where in the world but it also can cost loads to live in the better parts, depends what you are looking for.

I personally think Auckland is a bit of a dump (no offence intended just personal opinion) and lacking a bit. Some lovely residential areas but most likely pricey.

I live in Hamilton and shall we say, I find it, a little drab, but some love it, all about personal preference.

Crime well there is crime everywhere, very much a gang culture (street kids and organised crime), huge problem with P (similar to crack) and P labs (places in which it is manufactured, usually residential properties). Boy racers is another biggy, again depending where you live, is how much you will be affected by these things.

Housing has started to slow down here as with the UK and places are more difficult to sell. Mortgage rates are way higher than the UK so get ready to be stunned. Food and petrol cost have rocketed again like the UK.

Be prepared most definitely to be chauffeur for the kids public transport is not great and if they are into sports you could end up who knows where racing around on Sat mornings.

Also bit of imbalance going on between Pakeha and Maori.

find people on the whole to be friendly but can be a little superficial.

NZ is most definitely detached from the rest of the world, some love it for that reason, some find it too insular. Unless you are into camping and lower cost holidays, traveling and accommodation can be pretty pricey.

Health care is Ok, still have long waiting lists and run down hospitals would suggest getting private medical insurance.

As far as I am aware there is no official retirement age unlike the UK, you can pretty much work until whenever. Is that good or bad???

Most kiwis I know are also, on the whole, early to bed, early to rise unless of course the beer is flowing. Very much a drinking culture for all ages here. One thing I am not so sure about is, being family orientated...sometimes wonder...yeh kids do go everywhere with their parents and are expected to join them when invited out but I don't think that is necessarily a good sometimes. Kids do not need to be around when the beer is flowing and driven back home when one or other or both parents are half cut! A time and a place for everything me thinks.

And driving, well there's a thought.....on the whole and generally speaking it is appalling, unbelievable on occasions, bloody ridiculous on others and can start driving lessons at 15!!!?

NZ is not utopia or paradise, it is like all the other places it has a lot going for it but also has some big problems. As I said at the beginning it comes down to what your really want and whether NZ can provide it.

Don't just think of the obvious things that you will miss such as family and friends etc, think about the cultural side, your interests, things you hate, things you like, what is important get down to the nitty gritty...

for example...it rains a lot here, in the Waikato the summers are very humid and fly ridden, would you like christmas in the sun, sunblock is essential as skin WILL burn without it, outdoor pursuits are plentiful, hunting and fishing are common, rugby, rugby and rugby, hope you like it, British humour can be lost out here, carboot/garage sales are rubbish lots of second hand junk sold here for quite a bit of money. Surfing and sailing is great, the Bay of Plenty is lovely, if you like kumera (sweet potato) and pumkin you will be in heaven, you'll also be amazed at how many different fillings you can put into a pie.

The pace of life is slower than the UK even in places like Auckland but you still have the same issues as and when they arise, such as bills to pay , things breaking down, homework, deadlines and making ends meet. And the worst of all the washing and ironing follows you wherever you go!

You just need to be pretty sure about the reasons for leaving and the reasons for choosing NZ.

I am after 4 and a bit years making plans to go to the UK, though technically haven't lived in mainland UK for 15 years. Apart from missing family and friends we have decided that NZ is not our place for various reasons..and on a lighter note, I have to have Christrmas in the winter.

I really hope I haven't confused you of worried needlessly but you do have to be realistic and be aware of 'the good, the bad and the ugly' (my fave expression at the mo)

good luck with the decision making process, it is not easy, but preparation is everything!
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Old May 26th 2008, 10:46 am
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me again, think you should look through some of the other threads and you will get some varied veiwpoints.
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Old May 26th 2008, 11:11 am
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Default Re: Urgent Help Required!!! - moved to main forum

Whoever gave the OP that info must be trying to justify to themselves and others why they are now wanting to go to OZ............ that place where there's no crime, no racism, no sexism, the weathers always beautiful and people are unbelievably rich despite seemingly working very few hours...... or is that just what the brochures (read bullshit) and forums suggest.

NZ is not a crime free, trouble/problem free country (and neither is OZ) its what you make of it.

I hope that 250000 a year are leaving as it will make my drive into the CBD a tad easier in the next year or so...........

We've been here 9 months, are better off here financially (granted this is unusual) than we were in the UK, have kids that are loving the place and are here to stay.

Before you listen to stupid "I can't get on with it so i'll make out to all others its a shit place' rumours, come out and check it out. Make up your own mind, we did and do not for one minute regret it.
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Old May 26th 2008, 12:41 pm
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Default Re: Urgent Help Required!!! - moved to main forum

Originally Posted by LizaJane
British humour can be lost out here,
Thats the only thing I disagree with you on.
British humour is ALWAYS lost out here, people often look at me as if Im stupid, and at home people think I am real life and soul , very funny guy.
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Old May 26th 2008, 3:05 pm
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Default Re: Urgent Help Required!!! - moved to main forum

Originally Posted by Riverside
Please everybody, I am looking for a balancing point of view. I have just had a very negative conversation with someone who is leaving Auckland after 4.5 years for Australia.
We'll move to NZ next month but I have spend some time in Oz (NSW)- have lots of family there. While I also like Australia I was rather stunned by the information you were fed. My family had their cars stolen or damaged, thanks to the global success of the Fast and The Furious you have Boy Racers in EVERY western country and there is plenty of crime in Australia as well.

As some of my relatives have a tad darker skin colour, they have also experienced their fair share of racsism downunder - as people took them to be part aboriginal. Now that's not a bad thing but there are also still plenty of people in Australia who respond very negatively towards people of different culture or skin color. Some of my asian colleagues also had very negative experiences while working in Australia. This isn't slagging of Australia in particular though, racsism is everywhere in Europe, North America .. it's also in Australia and I don't expect New Zealand to be any different from the rest of the western world in this aspect.

I expect that therein lies the core of the problem - I'm not expecting to find paradise in New Zealand at all. It's a western country with the exact same problems as we have here in Europe. Some problems are a little less but that'll be balanced out by some NZ-specific issues as well.

I currently live in Germany.. where we have plenty of boy racers, plenty of crime (recently we have had a wave of mafia executions in public.. with people being gunned down on the street or in bars with machineguns), expensive petrol, long waiting lists unless you have private healthcare insurance, house prices and general cost of living going through the roof etc.

A few weeks ago, someone keyed the entire side of my girlfriend's car.. so she parked it somewhere else... and this week someone took care of the other side as well.

However, NONE of these issues are the reason why we are moving to NZ - I expect the same sh*t but we just want a change of scenery and we just want to soak up the NZ experience for as long as we feel like it.
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Old May 26th 2008, 7:10 pm
  #14  
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Default Re: Urgent Help Required!!! - moved to main forum

Originally Posted by Browner_
Thats the only thing I disagree with you on.
British humour is ALWAYS lost out here, people often look at me as if Im stupid, and at home people think I am real life and soul , very funny guy.
Maybe they're just too polite in Britain to let you think otherwise? The British are known for their reserve and good manners
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Old May 26th 2008, 10:17 pm
  #15  
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Default Re: Urgent Help Required!!! - moved to main forum

Originally Posted by lapsed kiwi
Maybe they're just too polite in Britain to let you think otherwise? The British are known for their reserve and good manners
not the ones I know and certainly not if they are real friends, the humour here is quite different more slapstick than sarcasm, more 'Benny Hill' than 'Only Fools and Horses' (70's mentality). Even Billy Connelly had to calm it down to fit the NZ audiences, never known him to be so polite! Limited mainly to a few topics/subjects, in England everything can and will be up for grabs. Kiwis can't laugh at themselves or their country can be quite anal. You gotta have a laugh or you go mad over here.
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