gazmac

Like a dog with a bone I just cant let this go.

In order to stop hijacking another persons thread I thought id start this one.

Some of the recent posts are listed below – It would appear to me (Please correct me if I have misinterpreted) that people believe New Zealand to be very cliquey and perhaps elitist.

"exactly. there may be laws but the unwritten rules of NZ life are stronger." <snip>

"Agitating a landlord about unsolved bad repair issues over a period of months with a rental will soon have you out on your ear & a landlord's pal moved in." <snip>

"Around this area , it is very much 'who you know' , 'who knows who' , 'who is related to who'" <snip> .

“Just the way it is & so to be mindful of that is simply sensible.” <snip>

My "intolerant attitude & complete lack of awareness as to 'how it is'" <snip> based on my "own narrow range of experiences" <snip> viewpoint is as follows:-

This also may be seen as singling out one individual I assure you all this was not on purpose, it is just some comments are more recent and easier to locate.

The need to network and build bridges is not a new thing and I am sure that most people would agree that this is a positive method of integrating into a workplace, social circle or community.

The theory based on the statements list above that one cannot break down the barriers of a clique or integrate oneself into what appears to be a closed group or should not stand up for oneself without fear of retribution does not hold much ground with me. Isolated incidents may occur but to state that this is generic, individual to NZ and is the norm is in my view wrong and offers nothing positive or productive to me, you or anyone looking to move here.

I don’t buy into the belief that everything is as bad as some would make it out to be. Everyone experiences situations differently and as much as individual experiences form the basis of how people perceive things it does not mean that everyone shares this view or has a similar experience.

When people who I’ve never met tell me; This is the way it is, I have to debate it primarily because I just don’t agree but also because this type of mentality is really negative and defeatist and for people to be unable to accept that this cannot be the actual reality of life in New Zealand or the whole wide world beggers belief. I really struggle with this type of ingrained belief system and feel it is not indicative of real day to day life here or anywhere for that matter.

I may very well sound cross, arrogant and naive to some, I may very well give a bad account of myself when goaded but to me the bottom line is this – One persons experiences are just that and cannot be deemed to be the be all and end all for everyone else. For other people to make closed statements insinuating that there is no hope or no other way really makes my blood boil. I find it to be quite far from my own experiences here, in the UK or in Aussie and as narrow as BEVS may believe these to be, they still remain my own subjective experiences and they hold as much weight as anybody elses.

I could go on and on but actually have some work to do, I also only seem to visit this site when Im working nights so with only one night to go I may miss some responses or maybe I wont, maybe there will be none, maybe ive already been cast out from the clique and blacklisted as a pain in the bum.

Purrball

Sometimes it's best to, if only because all of us probably have more useful, productive or enjoyable things to be doing with our time. There is no right or wrong to this issue and this ongoing hullabaloo, the original point of which is now lost and long forgotten in a hall of mirrors. No victory to be gained, pyrrhic or otherwise, especially when it clearly shows to others that they've got under your skin. Why give them that pleasure? Furthermore, it's utterly pointless going up publicly against a mod.

You've been fairly intemperate, in my opinion. Others have egged you on. Wiser, cooler heads would recognise this and take a break, regrouping and participating some time later when it's long under the bridge. Nothing more corrosive, tedious and soul-sapping— yet entertaining to others — than prolonging grudge-matches on online forums. Why wind yourself up like this? Might be best to think twice before hitting that 'new thread' or 'post reply' button.

gazmac

Point noted and greatly received. Thankyou.

This is however a safe environment for me to vent, sometimes I get stuck on things and this is an example of that.

I spend my working day de-escalating crisis situations, remaining calm, collective and level headed, here I dont have to, I can let go and voice an opinion regardless of how it is received or who it is against.

Im not after a victory and even if i was I can never lose enough by posting on this site for any victory to be pyrrhic.

This is in itself a form of entertainment, At this time of the morning this keeps me going and alert when things are not going bump in the night. You wont find me here during the day.

As far as going up against a mod - this was never my intention but should they not know better?

You are right though, there is no definitive answer to this issue, people are set in their way, myself included. I have one more night then I expect you wont here from me again for a week or two or maybe longer - many of you will be glad im sure.


Cheers

ExKiwilass

so basically you're mad because you don't agree with us. Shocker, that

moving2NZ2013

Great post (*runs and hides under a rock!.........*)

bearskin

In my experience when two people hold opposing points of view, the answer is either somewhere in between, or both are equally valid (in a given context)?

MrsFychan

every ones experiences are going to be different. You can only tell it from your own perspective and from what people known to you have experienced.

jmh

Immigration is REALLY hard wherever you go, but I think people assume it will be easier in NZ because it is more like England than many other places. I have immigrated to the UK and believe me it is REALLY hard.

People have their own networks and friends and, while they will superficially be friendly, they are rarely lifelong friends like the ones back home. I have found this on returning to NZ.

There are ways of communicating and unwritten rules that are hard to interpret. A number of times someone kind informed me that I said something inappropriate (not rude), but sometimes you just get a sort of silence and you're not sure why.

A fellow kiwi who lived in the UK and has moved back (identify yourself!!) said to me, it's like wearing shoes that are half a size too small - you don't really realise that they were not fitting until you take them off and feel so much more comfortable when you get home.

The other thing is that all NZ is not the same. According to some here all kiwis are thick, precocial and narrow minded. Clearly they have never travelled outside of a main centre of the UK. I had in-laws in some remote areas of the UK and believe me, they were living in pre-war Britain and had never travelled outside the county. Education was important to read, write and make new friends, but not much else was expected.

Also, Are the people from Edzell (in Scotland) the same as Londoners? Probably not. Why then would someone in small town New Zealand be the same as an Auckland city-dweller? Just because your neighbours are a bit thick doesn't mean everyone is.

Ex-Kiwilass, like me was raised here. From what I recall she has hated the place as long as she can remember. This astonishes me, but I believe her. I was raised here too and I never recall having these feelings. I had a happy childhood, went to a good state school and we travelled around the country in the holidays. In fact, unlike Ex-Kiwilass, who couldn't wait to get out of the place, I was rather reluctant to go but felt I should because it was expected that I should do my OE.

My point in all of this is that just because you experience something, it doesn't make it true for everyone. You do, however, have to make an effort to change to suit local conditions. New Zealand has a bit more of a frontier mentality (after saying don't generalise, now I'm going to generalise!!), whereas the UK is like the beloved Auntie. They require a different way of approaching things. If you have a problem ask a kiwi and they will try to help you resolve it. If you just moan about it and don't do anything to change it, they'll leave you to it. Afterall, who wants to spend time with a winging pom.

ExKiwilass

I don't know if I hate it so much as just being really, really bored.

westie1234

Nice post jmh, I am also a bit surprised when kiwi expat's come on here with such hatred for the country they grew up in. Often think what happened, for them to have so much bitterness towards NZ.

Purrball

Perhaps nothing happened, perhaps they came to realise that they marched to a beat of a different drum.

Perhaps a lot of things happened, but like some, they're careful to not reveal too much publicly about themselves. Perhaps if some others read carefully between the lines over a history of posts, they could build up a picture of where people are really coming from. Perhaps they're not bitter or full of hatred, but are essentially torn between somewhere they once thought of as home and where they are now. Perhaps some left for the same reasons that some of you left the UK: to better themselves and have a better life. Perhaps some are a little cowed against going against a loose group consensus, perhaps others don't care either way... and perhaps they don't care to analyse other's motives for presenting things in a certain way, but take their truths, their lives, problems and concerns to be real as it is experienced by them.

To me, one recent interesting post in another thread that caught my eye was this one:

There's an entire can of worms about New Zealand contained in just a few lines... and no-one really took issue with it.

Essentially, this thread is about The Blind Men And An Elephant.

That last part is important. In my view, the OP crossed a line by calling others' opinions 'trash', which justifiably raised a few other's hackles, implying as it did that others were perhaps lying, exaggerating or were somehow deficient in some way, completely overlooking the fact that this forum serves many purposes, one of which is a support network for those struggling with aspects of New Zealand that they may be finding difficulty with, seeking some kind of rapport, if only to reassure themselves that they're not alone. Attempting to invalidate that is like poking a hornet's nest. Don't be surprised if you're stung.

Sue

Hi gazmac,

I don't like to see individual people singled out, I don't think it's in the spirit of the forum so I've removed the names you included in your post.

There isn't a clique, but rather (as others have stated) we all have differing opinions, and no one opinion is more validated than another. Because we do not walk in each others shoes we experience things from a different starting gate, as it were.

To be honest I don't think this thread is going to do anyone any good. If you feel that other people's experiences are getting you hot under the collar it might be better to take a little break from the forum, or else try not to engage in discussions in other threads that are making you feel uptight. At the end of the day it's just not worth getting yourself all frustrated about, I'm sure there are more enjoyable things you want to do with your time.

Thread closed.