Theretohere

I wonder if anyone can comment about the curriculum content - I asked my son's NZ teacher in year 3 when he might do science, geography - ie the subjects, I was told confidently that they started at college. They seemed to focus entirely on maths, literacy and the odd project at primary, and yet he wasn't progressing well in literacy, often he came home and he hadn't written a thing all day, so hardly surprising. I showed his year 5 teacher a sample of writing from a UK child in year 2 and he said this was their very good year 5/6 standard. I was seriously worried so it was one of the reasons I brought him back. The self directed learning style definitely didn't suit him, he managed to develop excellent work avoidance tactics and do nothing. I don't feel self directed is good for a younger age group, maybe when you reach 13 or 14 but not 9! We are now at an English primary school where kids are not treated with the natural respect he was given in NZ, they are talked down to, shamed through punishments, and everything old fashioned I remember from my own education, on the other hand, I this is just bad luck, not all UK primaries like this, but they are much more rule bound. So I don't know what the answer is, am confused!

Theretohere

Just a note to the NZ teacher, I wish my son had done handwriting every day, I would have been much happier. There was a general feeling amongst all the teachers I spoke to in NZ that handwriting wouldn't matter, and yet I knew in UK exams are still done by hand, so knew it would!

MrsFychan

I think as you have already stated its all down to the school. As I said now we have moved from the first primary things are a lot better, the amount of stuff he learnt in the first few weeks of the move proved just how bad the other school was. Moving daughter on to college early has worked out well for her.

One thing I can say about the first primary was that the kids did seem to have lovely hand writing but a lot of that might be down to the amount of out of school paid tuition the parents do.

MrsFychan

actually one thing a teacher told her class on their leavers do dinner was that they all need to get into computing as the written word was on its way out so don't waste time learning to spell/grammar etc as they could just use the tools function, and she was not joking. My husband was NOT impressed and he's an IT geek.

Spacecake799

Can I just add to this and no it's not trying to say ones better than the other, this is all experience from UK junior, secondary to NZ junior, secondary and intermediate.
Only problems I thought I had prior to leaving UK with 3 children was are they reading enough etc. thought I had researched NZ education and read how good it was. I have 3 very quiet children. Youngest went into year 2, by the time he left in yr 6 he had lost all his confidence, head of yr 6 had told him he would amount to nothing at intermediate if he was going to get upset. (He got upset due to her). Often brought his books home at the end of a year with barely anything in. The list goes on for him. Eldest son went from being an average student to just getting by. Why, because my boys needed teaching, by teachers and not independant learning where they have to find out for themselves. It's a cop out!
Our middle child, daughter admitted to switching off on arrival in yr 8 as she had done all that work. Thankfully she is very motivated and so would come home from school go on the computer and teach herself. Final turning point for me re their education was her yr 11 parents evening. Head of maths asking how she was getting on. She admitted she didn't always understand something. Teacher told her not to ask her but the girls sat behind her were clever, ask them, or the ones that sit a bit up from you, ask them quietly to show you during the lesson!!!
These were again top decile schools on the north shore. Now I know this is only my opinion and it's worked for others.
Finally just to add, one of the big reasons for coming back to the UK system was that our youngest loved history, geo and sciences. We came back to a totally new area, found a small school and it's been amazing. He's fitted in fine and enjoys being taught. Has just been picked for a Philips trip to Switzerland to see cern. I'm very happy.

Theretohere

Hi Spacecake, my son was in NZ education until year 5 and this sounds familiar. At end of year 3 he came home with a set of books which were almost entirely brand new and unfilled in worksheets stuck neatly into a book. He said he had lost all his writing, but the little I saw was appalling, maybe one or two sentences with a coloured border around it. I had wondered during the year when he would learn cursive writing and had asked his teacher - teacher said he'd never thought about that, would ask the head teacher. I asked head teacher and was told children don't learn joined up writing in a NZ school, they have to learn it 'organically'. As a result, I tried to teach him but he wouldn't do it as noone else was doing it, he was still laboriously printing until recently, last year I paid a wonderful tutor to help him learn, she started him at age 5 and worked up. We ar now in UK and he's writing fluently, only took about a week surrounded by others to copy them. He feels he's climbing vertically up, has to much to catch up with, English teacher says he doesn't have the stamina of English kids who are expected to write 4 pages in year 3. I have checked recent International statistics on comparative educational attainment, and UK is now considerably higher, NZ dropped down. I don't think NZ really challenges or stretches children from what I can see at all. I do know it's over the top in UK though, and the self directed if done well would be great after a certain age. I have spoken to many adults as wrote CVs in NZ and most had very little to say about their education, it just seemed to be a non event - on the other hand, it didn't burn them out like it can do in UK. I am trying to have a balanced view as you can see! I would love to continue living there, but I can't sacrifice my son's education for my dream. I wish I could find a small school similar to your one. He has actually qualified for a grammar school which is an engineering specialist school in Stroud, but it really is one extreme to the next.

Justcol

Personally I feel its the difference between 5 years of study broken down in to 6 weeks of actual learning and the rest of the year endlessly revising
purely for SATs and O levels and at the end of it all your kids know everything they need to know on how to pass an exam and nothing else

or

5 years of study where kids are given the essentials and are encouraged to then go and study independently in a similar fashion to that expected of
them at college and university and stand a greater chance of completing their school life well prepared for either work or tertiary education


Just my opinion based bringing two teenage boys from a UK school to an NZ High School

Theretohere

Interesting, you have probably found a great NZ high school, as an expat it can be difficult to know where/how to start to look..

Spacecake799

Again just us but my son is now year 10. He is not revising hard, not much learning etc etc. he goes to school does all his lessons gets his homework, (gets it marked, another annoyance in NZ) and one week each year has exams. This may not be like every UK school but it is his.
Just to add he came back and should have started year 9, we felt having never done most of the subjects he couldn't pick options so approached the school and they agreed he could start in year 8 which was brilliant.
Also at his recent parents evening two teachers offered to stay for an hour after school if he wanted any help with work.
It does sound like your son is bright and is at a very good school but maybe needs something a bit less intense for now.
Totally irellavant but the week before I left NZ I spoke to a lovely British lady who's 5 yr old was at Kings? The private school in akl John keys kids went to. Anyhow they were desperately sorting out their business so they could bring him back as the teachers were only interested if the pupils had private tutors as well to teach them and were not interested in her helping with his reading.
As I said NZ schools did not suit my kids, others are happy and that's great. I have also found a lovely quiet town to live in and am very happy. Onwards and upwards.

Theretohere

Hi there (spacecake), so glad to link in with you, as think we on the same page. NZ education was very disappointing educationally (not socially though, he was v happy), he is not yet at secondary but is v much looking forward to it, as they do so much, he realises he won't learn much until year 9 if we return to NZ, so doesn't mind staying here, we both love NZ though - still own a house on a lake with beach nearby, and have idyllic lifestyle, don't here - have come back, no friends around, etc, didn't want to move back to the city I lived before. I am still quite disorientated by moving back, and he hasn't gelled into present primary school, impossible to do so in year 6 I suppose. I just need to be sure I should keep him here at secondary, then can move forward with our lives. Having been disappointed once by NZ school, it's a case of once bitten twice shy, don't want to risk it going wrong again at college. I know there's a brilliant school in Wanganui, Wanganui Collegiate where my friends have move to, now state integrated, used to be private. I have spoken to far more European and British people in NZ who were upset by education system over there than those who were happy, but as you say, there must be some otherwise they wouldn't stay over there (justcol for instance). Thanks so much for your thoughts, sounds like you definitely come out on side of UK.

Spacecake799

Nice to talk to you. It's a very hard decision and one only you can make. We never managed to buy a property in NZ and pretty much used our savings staying there. I never wanted to be trapped and wasn't ready to never be able to go to Europe or further travelling. Also a very small family but one I wanted to see again. I didn't love or hate NZ, the scenerys amazing and life's laid back but I wanted some life. I wasn't ready for retirement and yet felt retired as it was so quiet.
The kids did make some nice friends but I honestly felt that whilst it's great for young kids there really wasn't much to offer as they got older. I started to feel sad that they weren't experiencing night clubs etc. so we randomly picked an area and returned. It took us another 3 years to get here but we did it and were in a lovely area and yes we're happy here. Who knows what the future brings but while our son is in education we will remain here.

pom4gud

Just a little tupence to add to the debate - from someone considering moving their children from excellent schools to the NZ system.......... (admittedly, havn't done it yet)

You only get one chance to have a happy childhood, you can have lots of goes at topping up your qualifications and learning throughout your adult life.

I know that is a very simplistic way of putting it, but living in an environment that gives you the best opportunity to live family life the way you want to live it is surely something that needs thinking about.

(just a thought from someone who did biology, chemistry and physics a-level in their early 30s in order to go back into education and get a degree)

bourbon-biscuit

And also, I repeat: UNIVERSITY IS EASIER TO GET INTO IN NZ, AND CHEAPER!

Theretohere

Hi pom4gud, thanks for your thoughts. It's a truly tricky one. When a child comes back from school day after day and is more or less bored, you do begin to wonder if place if worth that much. Trouble with moving to a new country is you don't have the local knowledge or understanding about the education system to make good choices always, it's a matter of luck, and there are bound to be aspects out of your comfort zone. However, the climate and beautiful scenery are wonderful. And from what I have seen so far, UK education is far from perfect, sats this year dominating everything..so haven't yet solved my dilemma.

southerner

Our kids schooling in NZ has generally been very positive, but has not always been problem free - we have had to move one kid to new school, and sometimes struggle with the lack of quantifiable "getting through the topics" (relative to their cousins in UK).

But big thing in favour of NZ (Dunedin in our case) - no 11+s needed to get a good education.