Apple12

Hehehe Did you notice that The Campbells doesn't even need anyone else in order to keep the argument going... that was four posts in a row back there....

danny.f

Campbells,me evidently old son. Here you are-again-trying to light the touchpaper. Good on you!! Debate,healthy argument,friendly sparring (cos you're one of us now-aren't you?),is surely just in fun-something to get the grey matter tingling. Jesus-you've done it again-here I am having to really think about my answer.
I love the way you pick off people's replies and almost mock them-so intelligent,so classically educational-it's brilliant.
Trouble is,you're coming across as arrogant now,thought-inspiring is cool until you realise that the outcome is that you alienate yourself.
Why are you asking Ex-Pats why it's a farce to be a Kiwi?
If you have so many problems with nz (your positive thread as an exception,of course!!),why are you here?

Lenmil

We lived in Christchurch for a year. Seen some awful driving, graffiti was no way near what we have here in Newcastle (UK). Mind you the driving here in the last 2 years has become appalling. People drive too dangerously with a mind set of, get outta my way. If i were a copper i would have my book full of names. It was really great to see play parks un damaged (CHch) and clean with no broken glass. Some even had water kiosks. Here i saw a park area upgraded with new swings and climbing frames etc, and within a few weeks it was smashed. Broken glass every where, why? I never done this as a kid, why do they do this now. Talk about sh****** in your own nest. Had a good look about the South Island while we were there. I can only tell you from our own experiences that we found most places clean and tidy and people had a pride in their country. Not seen much of it here in the UK. I have said this before, i have been to Canada and America and New Zealand. And when you come back to the UK you realise what a dirty grimey place this is. Considering how rich the UK is supposed to be, why do we put up with it.

uk+kiwi

I think this could have been a great debate, but sadly it has caused some sparks. You've not had a great reception hey!

Kiwis are the most patriotic people I have ever encountered. I think this is a great attitude, but of course there is still a lot of room for improvement too.

Driving is bad. Personally, I find kiwis rude drivers - not letting you into/out of parking spaces for example. My kiwi hubbie says it's because traffic is so light, they don't have to be polite. Two alternative viewpoints on this one.

My only observation of poor service levels has been in Starbucks on the North Shore (Auckland fyi). Incredibly slow since the staff were relaxed and enjoyed chatting amongst themselves, which is nice, instead of going all out to serve coffee quicker. Again the kiwi relaxed way I think, although I find it incredibly rude when shop staff chat instead of dealing with customers. Happens a lot in the UK. I should add that although I have mentioned Starbucks, one of the things hubbie and I love most about NZ is the friendly shop staff that are pleasant to deal with and smile. It's the little things.

I agree with Batty that I hate it when bothered frequently in restaurants. Had lunch out in Guildford (UK) last Sunday and 5 different people came to ask us if we were ready to order. The perceived desperation for our business almost made me walk out. If we didn't have two starving children with us, we would have.

Only ever had fantastic crew on Air NZ. I love them. BA, in comparison, are miserably embarrassing. But IMO, flight service experience simply comes down to the crew onboard and weather conditions. Huge element of luck being placed on interaction with say 4 people.

Never ever noticed grafitti, litter, chewing gum or crime in NZ or the UK. So for example, when people mention UK pavements being covered in white spots (from chewing gum), I feel like Pixi-Dust in that this is a UK I don't live in, although of course I know it is there in the cities. Generally I hate cities, with the exception of Sngapore (city).

Sun is shining, must crack on.

Edit - the state of parks in the UK is largely caused by the increasingly lax parenting nowadays IMO. Children usually learn what's right and wrong from parents, including picking up litter etc. I have seen parents ignore their children littering places -why FGS? Same with children using bad language - it is usually being used at home. Bored teenagers that are allowed/sneak out at night are usually the ones responsible for the state of the parks. I know I wasn't allowed out after school during the week until I left school at 18, apart from going over to a friend's house, playing sport, music lessons etc. This has changed completely and thus parks are hang out joints, where obviously some children are not respecting the surroundings. Shame. Of course values get passed down generation to generation so it's likely to get much worse. Yikes.

The Weezer

[QUOTE=Campbells;4505498]I find it very interesting that most Kiwis’ are very patriotic and of course the rugby is a good example but if one looks at how loyal the Kiwi patriotism stretches does it hold water?QUOTE]

Good discussion topic.
Perhaps I can give a different perspective.
My fellow South Aucklanders do not seem particularly patriotic.
Could be because many of them are recent immigrants, or second
generation. The students I know from the South Auckland schools
I've worked in have been unfailingly curious and interested in
me as an American, which is definitely not something I could say
about too many of the "Pakeha" NZers I have met. (Many of the teachers and principals in these schools are white). I have had a similar experience
to some of the fellow British posters, in that I have noticed a reserve or
unfriendliness from some NZers when they hear my accent.
Working among these teenagers provided me with the pleasure of hearing
something positive about my adopted country, the US. Uniquely among them I have heard, "Muss, you have a cool accent!"

I suspect this. They left their own Third World country, only to find
themselves in another. And in one which treats them as outsiders and
an embarrassment. In schools they are treated as if it is impossible for them to achieve much, even when clearly there are some of high
intelligence and curiosity (but perhaps lacking in motivation). They want to hear about the US, what it's like, how it is different. I believe they see Australia as the Promised Land, not NZ, and they would just love to go to the US. Many I spoke to already have family that have made the move
to Australia.

Two Fijian teachers I have worked with, (independently of each other), when hearing I came to NZ from the US, said in nearly the same way, words to the effect of, "May I ask, why did you come HERE to live?" Both had close family that lived in the US or Canada. And they meant NZ, not South Auckland.

For the record, I did not come to NZ to find a better life. I considered where
I lived to be the best place in the world for ME. I came to NZ to live with
my NZ mate, is all, and never seriously considered it would be a permanent move.

I find NZ patriotism has the same effect on me as the "America, love it or leave it!" syndrome. Both are *very* distasteful. Some NZers, like Underdog, proclaim themselves, without embarrassment, to be the most humble and loveable of peoples. I wince when I hear a NZer talk in a
manner that's straight out of the Guinness Book of World Records.

Since coming here I have discovered, from NZers themselves and from the NZ press, that there is the strain of an inferioriy complex running throught the NZ
psyche. And they seem to be in a state of denial about many things, again
my impression from reading the local papers. They do not seem to want
to affect meaningful change in their country. Their *image* seems to be
the most important thing to them, even in the face of possibly alarming
evidence.

http://www.samueljohnson.com/refuge.html

For some of us, I think, NZ can be one great big fat Panglossian adventure.

mazi

Ooh Blimey.

I'm in a bit of a rush (lucky you lot) but the Kiwi patriotism thing gets on my wick. They are not so much patriotic as suffering a severe lack of indentity. Or rather, they don't know what their identity is and so trumpet anything Kiwi (and deride anything not Kiwi) in an attempt to find one.

This was my experience anyway - clearly there were exceptions, but it's the exceptions that prove the rule.

southerner

I'm a kiwi

In general I like New Zealand

In general I like New Zealanders

Usually I defend New Zealand from unwarranted attacks

I'm patriotic, I guess...but also right now a bit relieved not to be living Campbell's life.

Campbells

Aha !

I guess it is only me that sees it ? Maybe it’s my harmonic frequency

Cheers..

Campbells

NEWSFLASH:

In general I like Kiwis too

That’s one of the things I don’t like about Kiwis - in general, when challenged to think outside the box you label it an attack. How you going to see another perspective if everything is all good?

Don’t worry about me, I can cope with this, I am used to pressing buttons and challenging people’s thoughts. It not all about winning the popularity contest.

Perhaps it is not the change that is the problem but rather the resistance to change.

Cheers and have a great Monday.

southerner

On reflection that was a bit clumsily written. I guess what I meant was I'm glad I live somewhere where those issues Campbells sees are much, much less obvious.

southerner

Thanks, I will

Am Loolah

We're about to arrive, Hubby Kiwi and 4 kids with citizenship by descent, I really hope they'll grow to be patriotic about NZ as there's not a whole lot in the UK to be patriotic about?! I also really hope we do make friends with Kiwis and Maori as Hubby is half Maori and so in that respect he has family already there - which I appreciate may make our situation different to most.

From our visit last year we kept commenting on the very high standard of customer service compared to the UK. The number of times here now where the person you speak to at the call centre or who serves you in the coffee bar doesn't speak English of a high enough standard for them to be in that sector are too many to mention. Things seemed better organised and run, on the whole in NZ IMO.

I didn't notice graffiti, boy racers, "hoons" etc when we were last there, but then one probably doesn't on holiday. I'll let you know if that differs when we've lived there a couple of weeks.

But in answer to your question, no, I don't think Kiwi's being patriotic is a farce, I think they are truly proud of their country, and I for one think that's got to be a better thing that not giving a damn about one's country. Maybe they have a stronger sense of identity than, for example, the UK?

donnaf

[
I come here to NZ with my family, rent a mobile home and take to the road. The roads here are mad, you have 15 year olds that will tailgate you, cut you off at any motorway on-ramp, shove there Boom-ska music down you ears ( at any quite beach) and give you the finger and yell abuse at you as you drive past. The big trucks throw their weight around. This coupled with a dire shortage of road signs. Welcome to New Zealand.


Proud to be Kiwi ? – Scenario 2:
You may say something to one of the boy (lots of girls too) racers about their life threatening driving. Be prepared for a real welcome to New Zealand and an attitude from hell. If you threaten to phone the police you will get the response. “What are they going to do?” This teen yob attitude is not just restricted to the roads.

So proud to be Kiwi – Scenario 3.
Litter & graffiti everywhere. So outside the rugby fields does the Proud to be Kiwi hold any water? The All Blacks is great for NZ and certainly big business but not the main business of NZ. Newsflash: Tourism is !

So proud to be Kiwi – Scenario 4:
Try complaining about the Kiwi service levels and you will no doubt get this vacant expression. If Proud to be Kiwi extends with sincerity then surely NZ would want to up-their-game? For example, let me ask you how many times you go to a restaurant in NZ and have had someone come to the table and ask how the meal was and if everything was okay?

So proud to be Kiwi – Scenario 5:
Air New Zealand. The attitude I experienced on a couple of their flights was shocking and in one case when we were travelling with our wee lad ( three at the time) needed to go to the toilet and the service trolley was in the isle, my wife asked the steward if she could past and was advised that our son should just wait with such a nasty attitude. By comparison Qantas were amazing and all the flight attendants made a fuss of our wee lad and at boarding calls the announcements requested the elderly and families with small children to board first. WOW, service !

So where does Proud to be Kiwi start and where does it end ? At the end of the rugby match?

Be interesting to hear comments on this ?[/QUOTE]

Fortunately we haven't experienced this at all, we have been lucky that we have had the last 6 weeks to ourselves so have taken the opportunity to travel around our area, visit beaches etc and haven't had any major problems with bad driving or loud music. If anything people really seem to pay attention to the speed limit and it's nice to drive within the speed limit without some idiot drivin up your rear end like I've experiended many times in the UK.

We've also commented on the excellent service we've received in reatuarants, shops, the bank and on the phone. We've had goods delivered over the last few days and haven't had to wait in ll day for deliveries they ive you a time and are there when they say they will be. Only complaint is that in the bartering game it really does seem to depend on who you go to what deal you get and I really just want to know how much they want me to pay instead of asking what's your best price / cash price etc.

We haven't witnessed much graffiti or litter, in fact again have commented on how clean and tidy the streets,parks and cities are.

Air New Zealand - we didn't travel with them this time but did last time with 3 kids and had great service, only complaint was there were no screens in the seats, just one big screen per section for everyone to watch but I believe that has changed. We were also called early with kids with Air NZ - I think this is pretty standard with most airlines now.

Re patrioism - in Liverpool they were more likely to celebrate St Patricks day than St Georges. I wish there had been more patriotism in the UK, I didn't get the sense of people proud to be Brits or of their country.

I'm proud and privileged to live in NZ and will bring my children up to be responsible young adults. It's as much about up bringing as patriotism don't you think?

nzyorkshireman

Proud to be Kiwi – Scenario 1.

I come here to NZ with my family, rent a mobile home and take to the road. The roads here are mad, you have 15 year olds that will tailgate you, cut you off at any motorway on-ramp, shove there Boom-ska music down you ears ( at any quite beach) and give you the finger and yell abuse at you as you drive past. The big trucks throw their weight around. This coupled with a dire shortage of road signs. Welcome to New Zealand.

1
welcome to NZ...you will see a great lovely country from you mobile home...we are not as green and clean as we would like to be...but I am sure it is better then where you came from?...or else you would not be here?
Driver offences...contact the police
Road sign issues contact the AA

Proud to be Kiwi ? – Scenario 2:
You may say something to one of the boy (lots of girls too) racers about their life threatening driving. Be prepared for a real welcome to New Zealand and an attitude from hell. If you threaten to phone the police you will get the response. “What are they going to do?” This teen yob attitude is not just restricted to the roads.

2
Sadly you are correct...youths have to many rights...and to much say...nothing beats giving them a good bash....thats good role modeling....dont do that or I'll smash your face in....lovely...teenagers will play games with you, if they know they will get a bite...I know, I have tree of them.
Most kiwis well make you welcome...we are a friendly folks

So proud to be Kiwi – Scenario 3.
Litter & graffiti everywhere. So outside the rugby fields does the Proud to be Kiwi hold any water? The All Blacks is great for NZ and certainly big business but not the main business of NZ. Newsflash: Tourism is !

3
I live in a middle size city (Upper Hutt) dont see much street writing or rubbish...then again I dont live in areas where taggers like to do there art work...you live in a dump, expect to see trash in your area...dont like it move to a better area.
Memebr of my family lived in London for 12 months....now thats a real clean city...yeah right!!

So proud to be Kiwi – Scenario 4:
Try complaining about the Kiwi service levels and you will no doubt get this vacant expression. If Proud to be Kiwi extends with sincerity then surely NZ would want to up-their-game? For example, let me ask you how many times you go to a restaurant in NZ and have had someone come to the table and ask how the meal was and if everything was okay?

4
BP, Caltex, shell or Gull petrol stations do not count as restraunts!!

proud to be Kiwi – Scenario 5:
Air New Zealand. The attitude I experienced on a couple of their flights was shocking and in one case when we were travelling with our wee lad ( three at the time) needed to go to the toilet and the service trolley was in the isle, my wife asked the steward if she could past and was advised that our son should just wait with such a nasty attitude. By comparison Qantas were amazing and all the flight attendants made a fuss of our wee lad and at boarding calls the announcements requested the elderly and families with small children to board first. WOW, service !

5
Lesson learnt...don't fly with Air New Zealand...simple really! if the service sucks dont use it.....it is a long drive....ooopps thats roopsou dont want to use the roads unless it is clear of trucks and boy/girl racers...you could always walk...I am sure you will be safe in you graffity ridden streets...not

So where does Proud to be Kiwi start and where does it end ? At the end of the rugby match?

Summary

I'm proud to be a kiwi and of this country, as I am sure your proud to be a brit or what ever you are?

As for the rugby......we dont all eat and sleep the game. someone pass me a paint brush...I want to watch paint dry

How was the drive, you enjoy what your saw...take lots of pictures to send to the folks back home...Welcome to my country, home and place that I love dearly and am proud to be part of , if you dont like it, feel free to leave at any time. Be sad to see you go...we like visitors

Maz

Actually I've found this to be the case with every airline I've flown with. ANZ needs to get on the ball with that one.