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NZ - poverty myth.

NZ - poverty myth.

Old Nov 27th 2005, 5:14 pm
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Default NZ - poverty myth.

Come on people - I think everyone understands that the wages are lower and that most things are more expensive in NZ, but to say that poverty is rife in NZ is a load of cra*. After all, it is a first-world country with very little 'serious' poverty.

Interestingly, the vast majority of NZers own their own PC, television, washing machine etc (actually NZ has one of the highest computer ownership in the world). I'm afraid the stats do not back up your opinions of NZ being a third-world country.

If you claimed that the standard of living in NZ is generally lower than the UK, I think most people would probably agree - but to say that NZ is not living in the 20th/21st century is complete rubbish!

Everyone is different. If you find that NZ is hard-going financially then it doesn't necessarily mean that you are materialistic, but some people can keep to a tight budget more than others. Everyone, if they liked that kind of lifestyle, could survive on NZ wages. If you look for bargains and cook fresh food then your food bills could fall significantly - good food can be bought very cheaply if you are prepared to cook it yourself and look around. Of course, if you buy packaged or processed then it's going to be expensive. It's a bit like the 'lower' income families who complain about food prices in the UK; if they actually cooked their own food rather than buying the processed cra* then they could have a nutritious meal for a large family for less than £5. Of course, most of them are just too lazy to do that.

So, if you want a few holidays a year, to eat out everynight, buy a new car every couple of years then you might struggle to achieve that kind of lifestyle if you are on the average NZ salary. If not, then you probably do not have anything to worry about.

Personally, I'm not really into material things. Perhaps it's because I come from a low income family where money has always been tight. My mother has always cooked fresh food, though, and we've always managed.

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Old Nov 27th 2005, 5:48 pm
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Default

I'm not claiming that NZ has the same wages/standard of living as the Uk. It doesn't - and for that reason some people will not like it there. I don't blame anyone who doesn't like it; I certainly don't think that it makes those people materialistic, like some people have suggested. I might even find it too hard- going myself.

I'm just objecting to some people's statements that NZ is in the dark ages in terms of its economy/standard of living. It is certainly NOT a third-world country like some people are suggesting. I think that such statements are insulting and ludicrous.

Yes, I'm going out there in 2008, though, I'm planning a holiday there in Christmas 2007.


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Last edited by tottefan; Nov 27th 2005 at 7:05 pm.
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Old Nov 27th 2005, 7:50 pm
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Default Re: NZ - poverty myth.

Originally Posted by tottefan
I'm not claiming that NZ has the same wages/standard of living as the Uk. It doesn't - and for that reason some people will not like it there. I don't blame anyone who doesn't like it; I certainly don't think that it makes those people materialistic, like some people have suggested. I might even find it too hard- going myself.

I'm just objecting to some people's statements that NZ is in the dark ages in terms of its economy/standard of living. It is certainly NOT a third-world country like some people are suggesting. I think that such statements are insulting and ludicrous.

Yes, I'm going out there in 2008, though, I'm planning a holiday there in Christmas 2007.


tottefan.

What is your real life experience of NZ Tottefan that you are basing this on ??
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Old Nov 27th 2005, 8:02 pm
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Default Re: NZ - poverty myth.

Originally Posted by melting pot
What is your real life experience of NZ Tottefan that you are basing this on ??

Are you married, and have children to concider ?
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Old Nov 27th 2005, 8:12 pm
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Default Re: NZ - poverty myth.

Originally Posted by melting pot
Are you married, and have children to concider ?

Everyone knows that NZ isn't a third world country. The life expectancy, literacy rates, average salaries etc. prove this. Of course, that doesn't mean that having to support a family there is probably easy, but children there don't die of malnutrition, poor health etc.

Children probably don't have as many toys, nice clothes, and it's probably harder for parents to pay the bills, but I don't think people there suffer the effects of 'serious' poverty.

In other words, of course there's poverty, but nothing too serious. People do not live in tiny little huts with no electricity, running water etc. That is what I call poverty!


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Old Nov 27th 2005, 8:19 pm
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Default Re: NZ - poverty myth.

[QUOTE=tottefan]Everyone knows that NZ isn't a third world country. The life expectancy, literacy rates, average salaries etc. prove this. Of course, that doesn't mean that having to support a family there is probably easy, but children there don't die of malnutrition, poor health etc.

Children probably don't have as many toys, nice clothes, and it's probably harder for parents to pay the bills, but I don't think people there suffer the effects of 'serious' poverty.

In other words, of course there's poverty, but nothing too serious. People do not live in tiny little huts with no electricity, running water etc. That is what I call poverty!

And your answer to my questions are ??????
The fact that you are now saying probably in your posts answers this for me actualy....!!!!
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Old Nov 27th 2005, 8:35 pm
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Default Re: NZ - poverty myth.

The fact that you are now saying probably in your posts answers this for me actualy....!!!![/QUOTE]


Yes, I'm single.

I think you've largely missed the point - I've always maintained that people are worse off in NZ but I think it's an exaggeration to say that the poverty there is really serious.


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Old Nov 27th 2005, 8:51 pm
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Default Re: NZ - poverty myth.

Originally Posted by tottefan
The fact that you are now saying probably in your posts answers this for me actualy....!!!!

Yes, I'm single.

I think you've largely missed the point - I've always maintained that people are worse off in NZ but I think it's an exaggeration to say that the poverty there is really serious.


tottefan.[/QUOTE]

Poverty means different things to different people, statistically NZ quotes that 1 in 3 children are living in poverty by its standards....no people are not living in mud huts...there is running water, and electricity..

But to dismiss peoples comments who are struggling to raise a family in NZ is a Naive expression to make.

As a single person, you will have a great time in NZ why would you think otherwise, if you should ever have a family to look after maybe then you will understand where they are coming from...its not about the best toys, and designer clothing....its the basic overheads of running a home and raising a family that is a struggle. You can always look at statistics, and News reports for getting opinions and views in life....but its the real life experience that you cant...I wouldn't read to much into statistics if I were you...whether its in NZ or the UK its all bias..
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Old Nov 27th 2005, 9:12 pm
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Default Re: NZ - poverty myth.

Tottefan poverty can be quite serious in some sectors of the population.

There is a large gap between the haves and have nots in this country, more so than you see in the UK. There is certainly a great demand for food banks and I know of one or two British families that have been very grateful for the service they provide

If you are interested in researching poverty in NZ then I suggest you google
New Zealand Poverty Measurement / New Zealand Poverty Measurement Programme.

I'm providing this information so that anyone who is interested in this subject can reach their own conclusions, not to fuel any "debate" which you may wish to start

Last edited by livewire; Nov 27th 2005 at 9:15 pm.
 
Old Nov 27th 2005, 9:18 pm
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Default Re: NZ - poverty myth.

Originally Posted by tottefan
Come on people - I think everyone understands that the wages are lower and that most things are more expensive in NZ, but to say that poverty is rife in NZ is a load of cra*. After all, it is a first-world country with very little 'serious' poverty.

Interestingly, the vast majority of NZers own their own PC, television, washing machine etc (actually NZ has one of the highest computer ownership in the world). I'm afraid the stats do not back up your opinions of NZ being a third-world country.

If you claimed that the standard of living in NZ is generally lower than the UK, I think most people would probably agree - but to say that NZ is not living in the 20th/21st century is complete rubbish!

Everyone is different. If you find that NZ is hard-going financially then it doesn't necessarily mean that you are materialistic, but some people can keep to a tight budget more than others. Everyone, if they liked that kind of lifestyle, could survive on NZ wages. If you look for bargains and cook fresh food then your food bills could fall significantly - good food can be bought very cheaply if you are prepared to cook it yourself and look around. Of course, if you buy packaged or processed then it's going to be expensive. It's a bit like the 'lower' income families who complain about food prices in the UK; if they actually cooked their own food rather than buying the processed cra* then they could have a nutritious meal for a large family for less than £5. Of course, most of them are just too lazy to do that.

So, if you want a few holidays a year, to eat out everynight, buy a new car every couple of years then you might struggle to achieve that kind of lifestyle if you are on the average NZ salary. If not, then you probably do not have anything to worry about.

Personally, I'm not really into material things. Perhaps it's because I come from a low income family where money has always been tight. My mother has always cooked fresh food, though, and we've always managed.

tottefan.

Originally Posted by tottefan
Come on people - I think everyone understands that the wages are lower and that most things are more expensive in NZ, but to say that poverty is rife in NZ is a load of cra*. After all, it is a first-world country with very little 'serious' poverty.

Interestingly, the vast majority of NZers own their own PC, television, washing machine etc (actually NZ has one of the highest computer ownership in the world). I'm afraid the stats do not back up your opinions of NZ being a third-world country.

If you claimed that the standard of living in NZ is generally lower than the UK, I think most people would probably agree - but to say that NZ is not living in the 20th/21st century is complete rubbish!

Everyone is different. If you find that NZ is hard-going financially then it doesn't necessarily mean that you are materialistic, but some people can keep to a tight budget more than others. Everyone, if they liked that kind of lifestyle, could survive on NZ wages. If you look for bargains and cook fresh food then your food bills could fall significantly - good food can be bought very cheaply if you are prepared to cook it yourself and look around. Of course, if you buy packaged or processed then it's going to be expensive. It's a bit like the 'lower' income families who complain about food prices in the UK; if they actually cooked their own food rather than buying the processed cra* then they could have a nutritious meal for a large family for less than £5. Of course, most of them are just too lazy to do that.

So, if you want a few holidays a year, to eat out everynight, buy a new car every couple of years then you might struggle to achieve that kind of lifestyle if you are on the average NZ salary. If not, then you probably do not have anything to worry about.

Personally, I'm not really into material things. Perhaps it's because I come from a low income family where money has always been tight. My mother has always cooked fresh food, though, and we've always managed.

tottefan.
1. South Auckland has one of the highest child poverty rates in the developed world.

2. You mention the availability of consumer goods as examples of how NZ is part of the first-world - I would add that other first-world countries have the ability to heat their homes in the winter and have mass public transport systems - both of which are absent in new zealand.

3. I think the NZ is certainly in the 20th century. However the rest of the world has moved to the 21st. I would put the timeline somewhere around the late 1970s early 1980s if you wish to compare it to the UK.

4. Fresh food is cheaper than processed food here as it is anywhere. Fresh food here is still much more expensive here than the same fresh food in the UK. Full Stop. I do not eat processed food here and i agree with the observations of others that it is more expensive. Not slightly more expensive but MUCH more expensive.
 
Old Nov 27th 2005, 9:28 pm
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Default Re: NZ - poverty myth.

a brief read of livewire's link shows 1 in 5 live in "relative" poverty in NZ; ie. 20% of households living on less than 60% of the median income. No idea what the UK equivalent would be.

I agree that stats are not always that useful, the real test is how much customers foodbanks have and how many fail to get adequate housing, health and nutrition.

IMO NZ is first world, and can't be compared in any rational way to the third world. Still, there are many people struggling.
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Old Nov 27th 2005, 9:57 pm
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Default Re: NZ - poverty myth.

Originally Posted by tottefan

I think you've largely missed the point - I've always maintained that people are worse off in NZ but I think it's an exaggeration to say that the poverty there is really serious.

tottefan.
You say "there" which presumably means you are back in the UK, correct? Therefore, you have no real-world idea what the poverty is like in this country. It's not on african standards but make no bones about it, there are a lot of people very badly off indeed in this country. Like has been mentioned, 1 in 3 kids lives in poverty, statistical fact.

You do not get the full picture of what a country is like whilst living somewhere else and that's just the way it goes.

For example, I bet you didn't know that New Zealand has worse infrastructure in many places than some third-world countries? No? Didn't think so.
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Old Nov 27th 2005, 10:08 pm
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Default Re: NZ - poverty myth.

Are you talking about things like the poor drinking water quality NZClimber, or the roads and railway infrastructure?
 
Old Nov 27th 2005, 10:27 pm
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Default Re: NZ - poverty myth.

Originally Posted by livewire
Are you talking about things like the poor drinking water quality NZClimber, or the roads and railway infrastructure?
I hadn't even thought about the actual quality of the water Livewire, although it is reportedly extremely bad in areas. It was more actually getting water - you only have to be one bay over from where we live and you have to collect your own water via rainfall. And we live in Auckland, the largest city in NZ, home to 3/8 of the population...

Outside of Auckland there are many places where there are no roads, it's all tracks to get to the settlements, there's no electricity in many of these places, no sewage and certainly no water system. You either collect what falls out of the sky or if you're lucky you have a bore.

So, no roads, no mains sewage or electricity or water in some places. Hmmm, says "third world" to me, not sure about Tottefan, he probably thinks that's 'rustic'...

And in terms of the railway system here, the trains in Kenya (a third world country i'm sure everyone will agree) run to the timetable better and are more numerous than the trains here...

But that probably adds to the charm of the place for Mr "i've never been to NZ and have no idea what i'm talking about", right?

Last edited by NZ Climber; Nov 27th 2005 at 10:30 pm.
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Old Nov 27th 2005, 10:27 pm
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Default Re: NZ - poverty myth.

Taken from a NZ Ministry of Health Repor published this year relating to a survey in 2003

Approximately 1,165,000 (29%) of New Zealanders were supplied with drinkingwater that failed to comply bacteriologically with the criteria of DWSNZ:2000.

I hear that Dunedin's water supply used to be at the lowest grade - grade E but that a new treatment plant has now been brought on-line which should improve it to a grade A

To find out the current grading of your water supply in NZ (or in the place you intend moving to) click on this link and enter your location or click on the map http://www.drinkingwater.co.nz/default.asp
 

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