not all it seems, (no bitchy comments pls)
Aug 26th 2006, 9:35 pm
#1
BE Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 493
not all it seems, (no bitchy comments pls)
Ok gotta be careful on this one, I think people should know some of the things that they should expect that they dont tell you in the brochure for NZ.
Alot of it has already been covered before in various threads.
1) New Zealand is not a secular country like the UK, there is a strong religious element here, great if your religious, not so great if your not or you are on their undesirable list. Religion here seems in some areas to be forced into your face, i work with people who try to convert other staff every day, its on the TV (the scary evangelical kind) Destiny church (see evil cult) seems to think they have a right to take over public places for their events, even having their own 'police force' WTF.
2) Poverty. There are very poor people here. I work in a hospital so meet all sorts of people. There are alot of people who dont wash themselves or their clothes, some dont eat enough, there is alot of illness in the more poverty stricken people.
3) Many I see through work can barely read or write. People seem generally dim. The schools only teach NZ history, and unless they went to university many people dont have a grasp on the world. Its a bit (not as bad) as America.
4) Violence. Not nearly as bad as UK, but it does happen. There is a gang culture here, with the Mongrel Mob, Black Power, White supremacists, and various bike gangs. They mainly fight between them selves but they are certainly unnerving when you come across of a group of em day or night. Some areas the Police just wont go. My partner works with the Police and some places like bars, they have walked into and come straight out soon as.
5) Weather. Its cold, i lived in the south of England before here and i feel that its colder here than in the UK. You really do get all seasons in one day, can have rain non stop for a week. But flip side was that the summer seemed warmer than the UK, but last years one didnt last that long. I live in Wellington BTW might be nicer more north. Ive heard Christchurch gets good summers.
6) Housing. Not as good quality as the UK, most are wood (good reason lighter to land on you in an earthquake) and have no insulation, can feel colder in doors than out. Double glazing is rare, as is central heating. However things are improving. Insulation seems to be more available, there is more choice in heating, and the Kiwis i talk to are seeing things can be better.
7) Kiwi work ethic. Not sure its a bad thing but its a culture shock. there seems to be a strong work ethic in Healthcare at least. They will try to pressurise you into working as much as possible, and the kiwis dont mind, some work double shifts (16 hours) and dont claim the extra pay they should get cos of this. There is a huge volunteer mentality. Half the ambulance service seems to consist of volunteers, as does the rescue police, fire. Then work tries to get you in on your days off to do study and training, with no pay. I feel like a mercenary, i just wont do it. Kiwis dont seem to enjoy their time off, its all work work work. My partner works 50 hours a week, then does an ambo night shift in the middle then does St John volunteering on the weekend. We live together and i still think hes mad.
But i still like living here, i love England but on a nurses salary i cant afford to live their the way i do here. New Zealand has a great many good points, but if your thinking of coming here dont just go on the adverts or guide books, like any country there are the good bad and the ugly.
I dont think i could go back to England to live just yet. Saying that I'm not looking forward to visiting next year. The thought of leaving all over again scares me a little, will be even harder to get back on that plane.
(sorry for the poor grammar, im half asleep and still a little drunk on the cheap whiskey thats cheaper here than the UK he he its not all bad)
Alot of it has already been covered before in various threads.
1) New Zealand is not a secular country like the UK, there is a strong religious element here, great if your religious, not so great if your not or you are on their undesirable list. Religion here seems in some areas to be forced into your face, i work with people who try to convert other staff every day, its on the TV (the scary evangelical kind) Destiny church (see evil cult) seems to think they have a right to take over public places for their events, even having their own 'police force' WTF.
2) Poverty. There are very poor people here. I work in a hospital so meet all sorts of people. There are alot of people who dont wash themselves or their clothes, some dont eat enough, there is alot of illness in the more poverty stricken people.
3) Many I see through work can barely read or write. People seem generally dim. The schools only teach NZ history, and unless they went to university many people dont have a grasp on the world. Its a bit (not as bad) as America.
4) Violence. Not nearly as bad as UK, but it does happen. There is a gang culture here, with the Mongrel Mob, Black Power, White supremacists, and various bike gangs. They mainly fight between them selves but they are certainly unnerving when you come across of a group of em day or night. Some areas the Police just wont go. My partner works with the Police and some places like bars, they have walked into and come straight out soon as.
5) Weather. Its cold, i lived in the south of England before here and i feel that its colder here than in the UK. You really do get all seasons in one day, can have rain non stop for a week. But flip side was that the summer seemed warmer than the UK, but last years one didnt last that long. I live in Wellington BTW might be nicer more north. Ive heard Christchurch gets good summers.
6) Housing. Not as good quality as the UK, most are wood (good reason lighter to land on you in an earthquake) and have no insulation, can feel colder in doors than out. Double glazing is rare, as is central heating. However things are improving. Insulation seems to be more available, there is more choice in heating, and the Kiwis i talk to are seeing things can be better.
7) Kiwi work ethic. Not sure its a bad thing but its a culture shock. there seems to be a strong work ethic in Healthcare at least. They will try to pressurise you into working as much as possible, and the kiwis dont mind, some work double shifts (16 hours) and dont claim the extra pay they should get cos of this. There is a huge volunteer mentality. Half the ambulance service seems to consist of volunteers, as does the rescue police, fire. Then work tries to get you in on your days off to do study and training, with no pay. I feel like a mercenary, i just wont do it. Kiwis dont seem to enjoy their time off, its all work work work. My partner works 50 hours a week, then does an ambo night shift in the middle then does St John volunteering on the weekend. We live together and i still think hes mad.
But i still like living here, i love England but on a nurses salary i cant afford to live their the way i do here. New Zealand has a great many good points, but if your thinking of coming here dont just go on the adverts or guide books, like any country there are the good bad and the ugly.
I dont think i could go back to England to live just yet. Saying that I'm not looking forward to visiting next year. The thought of leaving all over again scares me a little, will be even harder to get back on that plane.
(sorry for the poor grammar, im half asleep and still a little drunk on the cheap whiskey thats cheaper here than the UK he he its not all bad)
Aug 26th 2006, 11:24 pm
#2
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,208
Re: not all it seems, (no bitchy comments pls)
Originally Posted by Sugo
Ok gotta be careful on this one, I think people should know some of the things that they should expect that they dont tell you in the brochure for NZ.
Alot of it has already been covered before in various threads.
1) New Zealand is not a secular country like the UK, there is a strong religious element here, great if your religious, not so great if your not or you are on their undesirable list. Religion here seems in some areas to be forced into your face, i work with people who try to convert other staff every day, its on the TV (the scary evangelical kind) Destiny church (see evil cult) seems to think they have a right to take over public places for their events, even having their own 'police force' WTF.
2) Poverty. There are very poor people here. I work in a hospital so meet all sorts of people. There are alot of people who dont wash themselves or their clothes, some dont eat enough, there is alot of illness in the more poverty stricken people.
3) Many I see through work can barely read or write. People seem generally dim. The schools only teach NZ history, and unless they went to university many people dont have a grasp on the world. Its a bit (not as bad) as America.
4) Violence. Not nearly as bad as UK, but it does happen. There is a gang culture here, with the Mongrel Mob, Black Power, White supremacists, and various bike gangs. They mainly fight between them selves but they are certainly unnerving when you come across of a group of em day or night. Some areas the Police just wont go. My partner works with the Police and some places like bars, they have walked into and come straight out soon as.
5) Weather. Its cold, i lived in the south of England before here and i feel that its colder here than in the UK. You really do get all seasons in one day, can have rain non stop for a week. But flip side was that the summer seemed warmer than the UK, but last years one didnt last that long. I live in Wellington BTW might be nicer more north. Ive heard Christchurch gets good summers.
6) Housing. Not as good quality as the UK, most are wood (good reason lighter to land on you in an earthquake) and have no insulation, can feel colder in doors than out. Double glazing is rare, as is central heating. However things are improving. Insulation seems to be more available, there is more choice in heating, and the Kiwis i talk to are seeing things can be better.
7) Kiwi work ethic. Not sure its a bad thing but its a culture shock. there seems to be a strong work ethic in Healthcare at least. They will try to pressurise you into working as much as possible, and the kiwis dont mind, some work double shifts (16 hours) and dont claim the extra pay they should get cos of this. There is a huge volunteer mentality. Half the ambulance service seems to consist of volunteers, as does the rescue police, fire. Then work tries to get you in on your days off to do study and training, with no pay. I feel like a mercenary, i just wont do it. Kiwis dont seem to enjoy their time off, its all work work work. My partner works 50 hours a week, then does an ambo night shift in the middle then does St John volunteering on the weekend. We live together and i still think hes mad.
But i still like living here, i love England but on a nurses salary i cant afford to live their the way i do here. New Zealand has a great many good points, but if your thinking of coming here dont just go on the adverts or guide books, like any country there are the good bad and the ugly.
I dont think i could go back to England to live just yet. Saying that I'm not looking forward to visiting next year. The thought of leaving all over again scares me a little, will be even harder to get back on that plane.
(sorry for the poor grammar, im half asleep and still a little drunk on the cheap whiskey thats cheaper here than the UK he he its not all bad)
Alot of it has already been covered before in various threads.
1) New Zealand is not a secular country like the UK, there is a strong religious element here, great if your religious, not so great if your not or you are on their undesirable list. Religion here seems in some areas to be forced into your face, i work with people who try to convert other staff every day, its on the TV (the scary evangelical kind) Destiny church (see evil cult) seems to think they have a right to take over public places for their events, even having their own 'police force' WTF.
2) Poverty. There are very poor people here. I work in a hospital so meet all sorts of people. There are alot of people who dont wash themselves or their clothes, some dont eat enough, there is alot of illness in the more poverty stricken people.
3) Many I see through work can barely read or write. People seem generally dim. The schools only teach NZ history, and unless they went to university many people dont have a grasp on the world. Its a bit (not as bad) as America.
4) Violence. Not nearly as bad as UK, but it does happen. There is a gang culture here, with the Mongrel Mob, Black Power, White supremacists, and various bike gangs. They mainly fight between them selves but they are certainly unnerving when you come across of a group of em day or night. Some areas the Police just wont go. My partner works with the Police and some places like bars, they have walked into and come straight out soon as.
5) Weather. Its cold, i lived in the south of England before here and i feel that its colder here than in the UK. You really do get all seasons in one day, can have rain non stop for a week. But flip side was that the summer seemed warmer than the UK, but last years one didnt last that long. I live in Wellington BTW might be nicer more north. Ive heard Christchurch gets good summers.
6) Housing. Not as good quality as the UK, most are wood (good reason lighter to land on you in an earthquake) and have no insulation, can feel colder in doors than out. Double glazing is rare, as is central heating. However things are improving. Insulation seems to be more available, there is more choice in heating, and the Kiwis i talk to are seeing things can be better.
7) Kiwi work ethic. Not sure its a bad thing but its a culture shock. there seems to be a strong work ethic in Healthcare at least. They will try to pressurise you into working as much as possible, and the kiwis dont mind, some work double shifts (16 hours) and dont claim the extra pay they should get cos of this. There is a huge volunteer mentality. Half the ambulance service seems to consist of volunteers, as does the rescue police, fire. Then work tries to get you in on your days off to do study and training, with no pay. I feel like a mercenary, i just wont do it. Kiwis dont seem to enjoy their time off, its all work work work. My partner works 50 hours a week, then does an ambo night shift in the middle then does St John volunteering on the weekend. We live together and i still think hes mad.
But i still like living here, i love England but on a nurses salary i cant afford to live their the way i do here. New Zealand has a great many good points, but if your thinking of coming here dont just go on the adverts or guide books, like any country there are the good bad and the ugly.
I dont think i could go back to England to live just yet. Saying that I'm not looking forward to visiting next year. The thought of leaving all over again scares me a little, will be even harder to get back on that plane.
(sorry for the poor grammar, im half asleep and still a little drunk on the cheap whiskey thats cheaper here than the UK he he its not all bad)
I, for one, would not hang, draw and quarter you for your thread, as it seems you've made valid, well thought out points and expressed them in a non-aggressive way.
Still coming tho!!!
Aug 26th 2006, 11:56 pm
#3
By name and by nature
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,852
Re: not all it seems, (no bitchy comments pls)
My inlaws are originally from Wellington and, having lived in Auckland for 4 years, wouldn't go back - because it's too cold 
I wouldn't dispute much of what you say Sugo but have a slightly different take on it. I like the work ethic here. The more you put in, the more you get out of it, although, this morning I've had two phone calls from one of the people I work for and have to talk her through something at work later on
. So yeah, you don't walk away from it on a Friday as easily.
I've had no evidence of religion at all except for the vast number of churches there are and so obviously they must have a congreation. My hubby works with a guy who's in Destiny and he's a lovely man and a lot of what they say and do has credence. I've got a gay sister though so I'm a bit iffy with them on that score. My accent is great when the Jehovas come to the door - Irish so I must be Catholic and there's no point in hanging around
Through a friend I've had knowledge of a gang (not the Mob) here in Auckland lately and man, you do NOT want to get on the wrong side of them!
Our house is insulated and we've got a woodburner which has been lit and left to go out the last two nights because it's too warm so we've no problems on the house front.
I think it's a wee bit cruel to say people are dim. A lot are quite basic all right but everyone has a story to tell or something to teach no matter how uneducated they are. Tolerance my dear.
I do think someone has to start a thread like this every now and then. Otherwise people can get only one point of view or the other. Nice one Sugo. It wasn't much more than a year ago that people who tried to tell the bad stuff used to get crucified.
Ps. Hubby (Kiwi) and I watched Coast to Coast recently and we ended up in stitches because so many things mentioned were either 'the best in the World' or 'the only one in the World'. The more it was mentioned the more we were in fits
I wouldn't dispute much of what you say Sugo but have a slightly different take on it. I like the work ethic here. The more you put in, the more you get out of it, although, this morning I've had two phone calls from one of the people I work for and have to talk her through something at work later on
. So yeah, you don't walk away from it on a Friday as easily.I've had no evidence of religion at all except for the vast number of churches there are and so obviously they must have a congreation. My hubby works with a guy who's in Destiny and he's a lovely man and a lot of what they say and do has credence. I've got a gay sister though so I'm a bit iffy with them on that score. My accent is great when the Jehovas come to the door - Irish so I must be Catholic and there's no point in hanging around
Through a friend I've had knowledge of a gang (not the Mob) here in Auckland lately and man, you do NOT want to get on the wrong side of them!
Our house is insulated and we've got a woodburner which has been lit and left to go out the last two nights because it's too warm so we've no problems on the house front.
I think it's a wee bit cruel to say people are dim. A lot are quite basic all right but everyone has a story to tell or something to teach no matter how uneducated they are. Tolerance my dear.
I do think someone has to start a thread like this every now and then. Otherwise people can get only one point of view or the other. Nice one Sugo. It wasn't much more than a year ago that people who tried to tell the bad stuff used to get crucified.
Ps. Hubby (Kiwi) and I watched Coast to Coast recently and we ended up in stitches because so many things mentioned were either 'the best in the World' or 'the only one in the World'. The more it was mentioned the more we were in fits
Aug 27th 2006, 12:04 am
#4
Life's next chapter is?
Joined: Jul 2003
Location: NW England...for now.
Posts: 942
Re: not all it seems, (no bitchy comments pls)
Originally Posted by Sugo
Ok gotta be careful on this one, I think people should know some of the things that they should expect that they dont tell you in the brochure for NZ.
Alot of it has already been covered before in various threads.
1) New Zealand is not a secular country like the UK, there is a strong religious element here, great if your religious, not so great if your not or you are on their undesirable list. Religion here seems in some areas to be forced into your face, i work with people who try to convert other staff every day, its on the TV (the scary evangelical kind) Destiny church (see evil cult) seems to think they have a right to take over public places for their events, even having their own 'police force' WTF.
2) Poverty. There are very poor people here. I work in a hospital so meet all sorts of people. There are alot of people who dont wash themselves or their clothes, some dont eat enough, there is alot of illness in the more poverty stricken people.
3) Many I see through work can barely read or write. People seem generally dim. The schools only teach NZ history, and unless they went to university many people dont have a grasp on the world. Its a bit (not as bad) as America.
4) Violence. Not nearly as bad as UK, but it does happen. There is a gang culture here, with the Mongrel Mob, Black Power, White supremacists, and various bike gangs. They mainly fight between them selves but they are certainly unnerving when you come across of a group of em day or night. Some areas the Police just wont go. My partner works with the Police and some places like bars, they have walked into and come straight out soon as.
5) Weather. Its cold, i lived in the south of England before here and i feel that its colder here than in the UK. You really do get all seasons in one day, can have rain non stop for a week. But flip side was that the summer seemed warmer than the UK, but last years one didnt last that long. I live in Wellington BTW might be nicer more north. Ive heard Christchurch gets good summers.
6) Housing. Not as good quality as the UK, most are wood (good reason lighter to land on you in an earthquake) and have no insulation, can feel colder in doors than out. Double glazing is rare, as is central heating. However things are improving. Insulation seems to be more available, there is more choice in heating, and the Kiwis i talk to are seeing things can be better.
7) Kiwi work ethic. Not sure its a bad thing but its a culture shock. there seems to be a strong work ethic in Healthcare at least. They will try to pressurise you into working as much as possible, and the kiwis dont mind, some work double shifts (16 hours) and dont claim the extra pay they should get cos of this. There is a huge volunteer mentality. Half the ambulance service seems to consist of volunteers, as does the rescue police, fire. Then work tries to get you in on your days off to do study and training, with no pay. I feel like a mercenary, i just wont do it. Kiwis dont seem to enjoy their time off, its all work work work. My partner works 50 hours a week, then does an ambo night shift in the middle then does St John volunteering on the weekend. We live together and i still think hes mad.
But i still like living here, i love England but on a nurses salary i cant afford to live their the way i do here. New Zealand has a great many good points, but if your thinking of coming here dont just go on the adverts or guide books, like any country there are the good bad and the ugly.
I dont think i could go back to England to live just yet. Saying that I'm not looking forward to visiting next year. The thought of leaving all over again scares me a little, will be even harder to get back on that plane.
(sorry for the poor grammar, im half asleep and still a little drunk on the cheap whiskey thats cheaper here than the UK he he its not all bad)
Alot of it has already been covered before in various threads.
1) New Zealand is not a secular country like the UK, there is a strong religious element here, great if your religious, not so great if your not or you are on their undesirable list. Religion here seems in some areas to be forced into your face, i work with people who try to convert other staff every day, its on the TV (the scary evangelical kind) Destiny church (see evil cult) seems to think they have a right to take over public places for their events, even having their own 'police force' WTF.
2) Poverty. There are very poor people here. I work in a hospital so meet all sorts of people. There are alot of people who dont wash themselves or their clothes, some dont eat enough, there is alot of illness in the more poverty stricken people.
3) Many I see through work can barely read or write. People seem generally dim. The schools only teach NZ history, and unless they went to university many people dont have a grasp on the world. Its a bit (not as bad) as America.
4) Violence. Not nearly as bad as UK, but it does happen. There is a gang culture here, with the Mongrel Mob, Black Power, White supremacists, and various bike gangs. They mainly fight between them selves but they are certainly unnerving when you come across of a group of em day or night. Some areas the Police just wont go. My partner works with the Police and some places like bars, they have walked into and come straight out soon as.
5) Weather. Its cold, i lived in the south of England before here and i feel that its colder here than in the UK. You really do get all seasons in one day, can have rain non stop for a week. But flip side was that the summer seemed warmer than the UK, but last years one didnt last that long. I live in Wellington BTW might be nicer more north. Ive heard Christchurch gets good summers.
6) Housing. Not as good quality as the UK, most are wood (good reason lighter to land on you in an earthquake) and have no insulation, can feel colder in doors than out. Double glazing is rare, as is central heating. However things are improving. Insulation seems to be more available, there is more choice in heating, and the Kiwis i talk to are seeing things can be better.
7) Kiwi work ethic. Not sure its a bad thing but its a culture shock. there seems to be a strong work ethic in Healthcare at least. They will try to pressurise you into working as much as possible, and the kiwis dont mind, some work double shifts (16 hours) and dont claim the extra pay they should get cos of this. There is a huge volunteer mentality. Half the ambulance service seems to consist of volunteers, as does the rescue police, fire. Then work tries to get you in on your days off to do study and training, with no pay. I feel like a mercenary, i just wont do it. Kiwis dont seem to enjoy their time off, its all work work work. My partner works 50 hours a week, then does an ambo night shift in the middle then does St John volunteering on the weekend. We live together and i still think hes mad.
But i still like living here, i love England but on a nurses salary i cant afford to live their the way i do here. New Zealand has a great many good points, but if your thinking of coming here dont just go on the adverts or guide books, like any country there are the good bad and the ugly.
I dont think i could go back to England to live just yet. Saying that I'm not looking forward to visiting next year. The thought of leaving all over again scares me a little, will be even harder to get back on that plane.
(sorry for the poor grammar, im half asleep and still a little drunk on the cheap whiskey thats cheaper here than the UK he he its not all bad)
I spent a few months in Welly back in 03/04, and can't say I came across much of the above...maybe I just didn't stay long enough. A lot of the points you mention readily exist back in the UK though.....
1. I don't think I saw too much of the religion stff on TV, except the odd USA style programme, but we have God TV here in the UK, so you can watch it 24/7 if you choose to. And to be honest, I'm sure a lot of Muslims would disagree that the UK is secular and respectful to each religion....and I lose count of the race incidents that go on.
2. You only need to look at any major city...Manchester, Brum, London, Edinburgh, Paris, New York, LA etc to see that there are homeless people on a large scale...heck there's a semi-naked homeless guy up the road in Preston that regularly walks around with his erm....faculties on display. Admittedly I'm picking on one guy, but there are dozens of beggars everywhere and I doubt many of them wash themselves...I guess their priorities are food.
3. UK education is on the whole pretty good, but even that's dumbed down nowadays...don't worry there's many illiterate people in the UK, you may well just be seeing this due to the low population and the fact that a lot of people will head for a city for the chance of any work, hence you'll cross them more...I don't know. At least Kiwi's seem to want to work....here there's a large majority happy to play the system for benefits...I know a number of people (they've been investigated too!), that still claim benefits for things like vertigo and undetermined chronic pain. The number of people for example, walking with a stick one day, then perfectly well the next is shocking.
4. Violence....just look at the news of the UK, yes it's sensationalised to a degree, but it's still there. Gang fighting is in every city...Moss side is a no go for one tiny example, and that's an estate, not just a bar.
5. Wellington is bang on the Cook Strait, it's called Windy Wellington for a reason...that wind channels between the islands and speeds up. It;s exposed, so gets a hammering...I lived on the hill in Lyall bay and wow was that blustery.....It's definitely warmer further North, some parts have a climate on par with California.
6. Housing....Yes, it's wooden, ours used to be til they got jittery after the Great Fires and started using stone and brick. I'd sooner wood hit me in an earthquake than stone...but I get your point. There are brick houses in NZ, and as you say heating and insulation is improving all the time. Compared to Canada and the US, we pale in comparison with our level of housing and it's thermal/energy saving properties. My kid bro lives in Ohio, his place is wood framed and Weatherboard, and it's far better at retaining heat than a brick house...it's just some of the older houses in NZ have yet to be upgraded as it were. Not to burst your bubble, but most terraced houses had no central heating til the last 20 years maybe...the place I'm in now still has no heating whatsoever, and only has double glazing coz the landlord put it in...now it's hot in summer and freezing in winter.
7. Kiwi work ethic...that is bad....overtime is overtime, and people should get paid for it, but a lot of our emergency services are going the way of volunteer work. TA ? (token pay), Community Police? St Johns Ambulance?, RLNI? There's lots of volunteers in these areas, so NZ is not unique. Admittedly, our system treats its workers a little better maybe, but there's hundreds of careers that are commission only and sales driven, so the pressure to do long hours is there even if it's not stated. Self employed people like me are probably worse...I lose count of the hours answering technical queries that I get no reward for.
Anyway, all of this is not to have a go back at you, merely to highlight that problems exist wherever you go...i could list the same for Spain, Germany, The USA.....you name it. As you say...it all really boils down to what quality of life you want, and can get in the particular country you wish to live in or emigrate to.....
Glas you're loving NZ though, despite your reservations. Rich
Aug 27th 2006, 12:24 am
#5
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,208
Re: not all it seems, (no bitchy comments pls)
Originally Posted by theguitardoctor
Just to balance the comments:
I spent a few months in Welly back in 03/04, and can't say I came across much of the above...maybe I just didn't stay long enough. A lot of the points you mention readily exist back in the UK though.....
1. I don't think I saw too much of the religion stff on TV, except the odd USA style programme, but we have God TV here in the UK, so you can watch it 24/7 if you choose to. And to be honest, I'm sure a lot of Muslims would disagree that the UK is secular and respectful to each religion....and I lose count of the race incidents that go on.
2. You only need to look at any major city...Manchester, Brum, London, Edinburgh, Paris, New York, LA etc to see that there are homeless people on a large scale...heck there's a semi-naked homeless guy up the road in Preston that regularly walks around with his erm....faculties on display. Admittedly I'm picking on one guy, but there are dozens of beggars everywhere and I doubt many of them wash themselves...I guess their priorities are food.
3. UK education is on the whole pretty good, but even that's dumbed down nowadays...don't worry there's many illiterate people in the UK, you may well just be seeing this due to the low population and the fact that a lot of people will head for a city for the chance of any work, hence you'll cross them more...I don't know. At least Kiwi's seem to want to work....here there's a large majority happy to play the system for benefits...I know a number of people (they've been investigated too!), that still claim benefits for things like vertigo and undetermined chronic pain. The number of people for example, walking with a stick one day, then perfectly well the next is shocking.
4. Violence....just look at the news of the UK, yes it's sensationalised to a degree, but it's still there. Gang fighting is in every city...Moss side is a no go for one tiny example, and that's an estate, not just a bar.
5. Wellington is bang on the Cook Strait, it's called Windy Wellington for a reason...that wind channels between the islands and speeds up. It;s exposed, so gets a hammering...I lived on the hill in Lyall bay and wow was that blustery.....It's definitely warmer further North, some parts have a climate on par with California.
6. Housing....Yes, it's wooden, ours used to be til they got jittery after the Great Fires and started using stone and brick. I'd sooner wood hit me in an earthquake than stone...but I get your point. There are brick houses in NZ, and as you say heating and insulation is improving all the time. Compared to Canada and the US, we pale in comparison with our level of housing and it's thermal/energy saving properties. My kid bro lives in Ohio, his place is wood framed and Weatherboard, and it's far better at retaining heat than a brick house...it's just some of the older houses in NZ have yet to be upgraded as it were. Not to burst your bubble, but most terraced houses had no central heating til the last 20 years maybe...the place I'm in now still has no heating whatsoever, and only has double glazing coz the landlord put it in...now it's hot in summer and freezing in winter.
7. Kiwi work ethic...that is bad....overtime is overtime, and people should get paid for it, but a lot of our emergency services are going the way of volunteer work. TA ? (token pay), Community Police? St Johns Ambulance?, RLNI? There's lots of volunteers in these areas, so NZ is not unique. Admittedly, our system treats its workers a little better maybe, but there's hundreds of careers that are commission only and sales driven, so the pressure to do long hours is there even if it's not stated. Self employed people like me are probably worse...I lose count of the hours answering technical queries that I get no reward for.
Anyway, all of this is not to have a go back at you, merely to highlight that problems exist wherever you go...i could list the same for Spain, Germany, The USA.....you name it. As you say...it all really boils down to what quality of life you want, and can get in the particular country you wish to live in or emigrate to.....
Glas you're loving NZ though, despite your reservations. Rich
I spent a few months in Welly back in 03/04, and can't say I came across much of the above...maybe I just didn't stay long enough. A lot of the points you mention readily exist back in the UK though.....
1. I don't think I saw too much of the religion stff on TV, except the odd USA style programme, but we have God TV here in the UK, so you can watch it 24/7 if you choose to. And to be honest, I'm sure a lot of Muslims would disagree that the UK is secular and respectful to each religion....and I lose count of the race incidents that go on.
2. You only need to look at any major city...Manchester, Brum, London, Edinburgh, Paris, New York, LA etc to see that there are homeless people on a large scale...heck there's a semi-naked homeless guy up the road in Preston that regularly walks around with his erm....faculties on display. Admittedly I'm picking on one guy, but there are dozens of beggars everywhere and I doubt many of them wash themselves...I guess their priorities are food.
3. UK education is on the whole pretty good, but even that's dumbed down nowadays...don't worry there's many illiterate people in the UK, you may well just be seeing this due to the low population and the fact that a lot of people will head for a city for the chance of any work, hence you'll cross them more...I don't know. At least Kiwi's seem to want to work....here there's a large majority happy to play the system for benefits...I know a number of people (they've been investigated too!), that still claim benefits for things like vertigo and undetermined chronic pain. The number of people for example, walking with a stick one day, then perfectly well the next is shocking.
4. Violence....just look at the news of the UK, yes it's sensationalised to a degree, but it's still there. Gang fighting is in every city...Moss side is a no go for one tiny example, and that's an estate, not just a bar.
5. Wellington is bang on the Cook Strait, it's called Windy Wellington for a reason...that wind channels between the islands and speeds up. It;s exposed, so gets a hammering...I lived on the hill in Lyall bay and wow was that blustery.....It's definitely warmer further North, some parts have a climate on par with California.
6. Housing....Yes, it's wooden, ours used to be til they got jittery after the Great Fires and started using stone and brick. I'd sooner wood hit me in an earthquake than stone...but I get your point. There are brick houses in NZ, and as you say heating and insulation is improving all the time. Compared to Canada and the US, we pale in comparison with our level of housing and it's thermal/energy saving properties. My kid bro lives in Ohio, his place is wood framed and Weatherboard, and it's far better at retaining heat than a brick house...it's just some of the older houses in NZ have yet to be upgraded as it were. Not to burst your bubble, but most terraced houses had no central heating til the last 20 years maybe...the place I'm in now still has no heating whatsoever, and only has double glazing coz the landlord put it in...now it's hot in summer and freezing in winter.
7. Kiwi work ethic...that is bad....overtime is overtime, and people should get paid for it, but a lot of our emergency services are going the way of volunteer work. TA ? (token pay), Community Police? St Johns Ambulance?, RLNI? There's lots of volunteers in these areas, so NZ is not unique. Admittedly, our system treats its workers a little better maybe, but there's hundreds of careers that are commission only and sales driven, so the pressure to do long hours is there even if it's not stated. Self employed people like me are probably worse...I lose count of the hours answering technical queries that I get no reward for.
Anyway, all of this is not to have a go back at you, merely to highlight that problems exist wherever you go...i could list the same for Spain, Germany, The USA.....you name it. As you say...it all really boils down to what quality of life you want, and can get in the particular country you wish to live in or emigrate to.....
Glas you're loving NZ though, despite your reservations. Rich
Think of it this way ... The UK has 60,000,000 people living in an island the same size as all of NZ. NZ has 4,000,000 so we have 15 times the amount of crime, grief, poverty, problems as a whole.
Today in Hull a 4 year old boy was tied to a tree and beaten about the head with a brick???? Alledgedly by an 11 year old? What the Hell is going on?
The work ethic here is a double edged sword. You can work your butt off for £5:50 an hour, or you can never work and get (have no idea!) £75 a week?
Or be an Eastern European and come here, work your butt off, (which to be fair to the majority they do) take home £250 a week, single man in his 20's and get our Government to pay you Tax Credits of £50 a week through our taxes?!
Our green field sites will be housing estates in 10 years time. The UK can't keep up with the easy entry for anyone and social security picnic they have created.
Aug 27th 2006, 2:44 am
#6
Banned
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,467
Re: not all it seems, (no bitchy comments pls)
Originally Posted by Sugo
Ok gotta be careful on this one, I think people should know some of the things that they should expect that they dont tell you in the brochure for NZ.
Alot of it has already been covered before in various threads.
1) New Zealand is not a secular country like the UK, there is a strong religious element here, great if your religious, not so great if your not or you are on their undesirable list. Religion here seems in some areas to be forced into your face, i work with people who try to convert other staff every day, its on the TV (the scary evangelical kind) Destiny church (see evil cult) seems to think they have a right to take over public places for their events, even having their own 'police force' WTF.
2) Poverty. There are very poor people here. I work in a hospital so meet all sorts of people. There are alot of people who dont wash themselves or their clothes, some dont eat enough, there is alot of illness in the more poverty stricken people.
3) Many I see through work can barely read or write. People seem generally dim. The schools only teach NZ history, and unless they went to university many people dont have a grasp on the world. Its a bit (not as bad) as America.
4) Violence. Not nearly as bad as UK, but it does happen. There is a gang culture here, with the Mongrel Mob, Black Power, White supremacists, and various bike gangs. They mainly fight between them selves but they are certainly unnerving when you come across of a group of em day or night. Some areas the Police just wont go. My partner works with the Police and some places like bars, they have walked into and come straight out soon as.
5) Weather. Its cold, i lived in the south of England before here and i feel that its colder here than in the UK. You really do get all seasons in one day, can have rain non stop for a week. But flip side was that the summer seemed warmer than the UK, but last years one didnt last that long. I live in Wellington BTW might be nicer more north. Ive heard Christchurch gets good summers.
6) Housing. Not as good quality as the UK, most are wood (good reason lighter to land on you in an earthquake) and have no insulation, can feel colder in doors than out. Double glazing is rare, as is central heating. However things are improving. Insulation seems to be more available, there is more choice in heating, and the Kiwis i talk to are seeing things can be better.
7) Kiwi work ethic. Not sure its a bad thing but its a culture shock. there seems to be a strong work ethic in Healthcare at least. They will try to pressurise you into working as much as possible, and the kiwis dont mind, some work double shifts (16 hours) and dont claim the extra pay they should get cos of this. There is a huge volunteer mentality. Half the ambulance service seems to consist of volunteers, as does the rescue police, fire. Then work tries to get you in on your days off to do study and training, with no pay. I feel like a mercenary, i just wont do it. Kiwis dont seem to enjoy their time off, its all work work work. My partner works 50 hours a week, then does an ambo night shift in the middle then does St John volunteering on the weekend. We live together and i still think hes mad.
But i still like living here, i love England but on a nurses salary i cant afford to live their the way i do here. New Zealand has a great many good points, but if your thinking of coming here dont just go on the adverts or guide books, like any country there are the good bad and the ugly.
I dont think i could go back to England to live just yet. Saying that I'm not looking forward to visiting next year. The thought of leaving all over again scares me a little, will be even harder to get back on that plane.
(sorry for the poor grammar, im half asleep and still a little drunk on the cheap whiskey thats cheaper here than the UK he he its not all bad)
Alot of it has already been covered before in various threads.
1) New Zealand is not a secular country like the UK, there is a strong religious element here, great if your religious, not so great if your not or you are on their undesirable list. Religion here seems in some areas to be forced into your face, i work with people who try to convert other staff every day, its on the TV (the scary evangelical kind) Destiny church (see evil cult) seems to think they have a right to take over public places for their events, even having their own 'police force' WTF.
2) Poverty. There are very poor people here. I work in a hospital so meet all sorts of people. There are alot of people who dont wash themselves or their clothes, some dont eat enough, there is alot of illness in the more poverty stricken people.
3) Many I see through work can barely read or write. People seem generally dim. The schools only teach NZ history, and unless they went to university many people dont have a grasp on the world. Its a bit (not as bad) as America.
4) Violence. Not nearly as bad as UK, but it does happen. There is a gang culture here, with the Mongrel Mob, Black Power, White supremacists, and various bike gangs. They mainly fight between them selves but they are certainly unnerving when you come across of a group of em day or night. Some areas the Police just wont go. My partner works with the Police and some places like bars, they have walked into and come straight out soon as.
5) Weather. Its cold, i lived in the south of England before here and i feel that its colder here than in the UK. You really do get all seasons in one day, can have rain non stop for a week. But flip side was that the summer seemed warmer than the UK, but last years one didnt last that long. I live in Wellington BTW might be nicer more north. Ive heard Christchurch gets good summers.
6) Housing. Not as good quality as the UK, most are wood (good reason lighter to land on you in an earthquake) and have no insulation, can feel colder in doors than out. Double glazing is rare, as is central heating. However things are improving. Insulation seems to be more available, there is more choice in heating, and the Kiwis i talk to are seeing things can be better.
7) Kiwi work ethic. Not sure its a bad thing but its a culture shock. there seems to be a strong work ethic in Healthcare at least. They will try to pressurise you into working as much as possible, and the kiwis dont mind, some work double shifts (16 hours) and dont claim the extra pay they should get cos of this. There is a huge volunteer mentality. Half the ambulance service seems to consist of volunteers, as does the rescue police, fire. Then work tries to get you in on your days off to do study and training, with no pay. I feel like a mercenary, i just wont do it. Kiwis dont seem to enjoy their time off, its all work work work. My partner works 50 hours a week, then does an ambo night shift in the middle then does St John volunteering on the weekend. We live together and i still think hes mad.
But i still like living here, i love England but on a nurses salary i cant afford to live their the way i do here. New Zealand has a great many good points, but if your thinking of coming here dont just go on the adverts or guide books, like any country there are the good bad and the ugly.
I dont think i could go back to England to live just yet. Saying that I'm not looking forward to visiting next year. The thought of leaving all over again scares me a little, will be even harder to get back on that plane.
(sorry for the poor grammar, im half asleep and still a little drunk on the cheap whiskey thats cheaper here than the UK he he its not all bad)
Aug 27th 2006, 4:14 am
#7
By name and by nature
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,852
Re: not all it seems, (no bitchy comments pls)
Since I wrote the earlier post, I've spent two hours on the deck reading a book I couldn't put down and the rest in the garden, in a singlet It will officially be spring on 1 September. I lived in London and no way could I sit in the garden working on my tan in February
It will officially be spring on 1 September. I lived in London and no way could I sit in the garden working on my tan in February
Aug 27th 2006, 6:48 am
#8
BE Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 493
Re: not all it seems, (no bitchy comments pls)
Originally Posted by theguitardoctor
Just to balance the comments:
I spent a few months in Welly back in 03/04, and can't say I came across much of the above...maybe I just didn't stay long enough. A lot of the points you mention readily exist back in the UK though.....
1. I don't think I saw too much of the religion stff on TV, except the odd USA style programme, but we have God TV here in the UK, so you can watch it 24/7 if you choose to. And to be honest, I'm sure a lot of Muslims would disagree that the UK is secular and respectful to each religion....and I lose count of the race incidents that go on.
2. You only need to look at any major city...Manchester, Brum, London, Edinburgh, Paris, New York, LA etc to see that there are homeless people on a large scale...heck there's a semi-naked homeless guy up the road in Preston that regularly walks around with his erm....faculties on display. Admittedly I'm picking on one guy, but there are dozens of beggars everywhere and I doubt many of them wash themselves...I guess their priorities are food.
3. UK education is on the whole pretty good, but even that's dumbed down nowadays...don't worry there's many illiterate people in the UK, you may well just be seeing this due to the low population and the fact that a lot of people will head for a city for the chance of any work, hence you'll cross them more...I don't know. At least Kiwi's seem to want to work....here there's a large majority happy to play the system for benefits...I know a number of people (they've been investigated too!), that still claim benefits for things like vertigo and undetermined chronic pain. The number of people for example, walking with a stick one day, then perfectly well the next is shocking.
4. Violence....just look at the news of the UK, yes it's sensationalised to a degree, but it's still there. Gang fighting is in every city...Moss side is a no go for one tiny example, and that's an estate, not just a bar.
5. Wellington is bang on the Cook Strait, it's called Windy Wellington for a reason...that wind channels between the islands and speeds up. It;s exposed, so gets a hammering...I lived on the hill in Lyall bay and wow was that blustery.....It's definitely warmer further North, some parts have a climate on par with California.
6. Housing....Yes, it's wooden, ours used to be til they got jittery after the Great Fires and started using stone and brick. I'd sooner wood hit me in an earthquake than stone...but I get your point. There are brick houses in NZ, and as you say heating and insulation is improving all the time. Compared to Canada and the US, we pale in comparison with our level of housing and it's thermal/energy saving properties. My kid bro lives in Ohio, his place is wood framed and Weatherboard, and it's far better at retaining heat than a brick house...it's just some of the older houses in NZ have yet to be upgraded as it were. Not to burst your bubble, but most terraced houses had no central heating til the last 20 years maybe...the place I'm in now still has no heating whatsoever, and only has double glazing coz the landlord put it in...now it's hot in summer and freezing in winter.
7. Kiwi work ethic...that is bad....overtime is overtime, and people should get paid for it, but a lot of our emergency services are going the way of volunteer work. TA ? (token pay), Community Police? St Johns Ambulance?, RLNI? There's lots of volunteers in these areas, so NZ is not unique. Admittedly, our system treats its workers a little better maybe, but there's hundreds of careers that are commission only and sales driven, so the pressure to do long hours is there even if it's not stated. Self employed people like me are probably worse...I lose count of the hours answering technical queries that I get no reward for.
Anyway, all of this is not to have a go back at you, merely to highlight that problems exist wherever you go...i could list the same for Spain, Germany, The USA.....you name it. As you say...it all really boils down to what quality of life you want, and can get in the particular country you wish to live in or emigrate to.....
Glas you're loving NZ though, despite your reservations. Rich
I spent a few months in Welly back in 03/04, and can't say I came across much of the above...maybe I just didn't stay long enough. A lot of the points you mention readily exist back in the UK though.....
1. I don't think I saw too much of the religion stff on TV, except the odd USA style programme, but we have God TV here in the UK, so you can watch it 24/7 if you choose to. And to be honest, I'm sure a lot of Muslims would disagree that the UK is secular and respectful to each religion....and I lose count of the race incidents that go on.
2. You only need to look at any major city...Manchester, Brum, London, Edinburgh, Paris, New York, LA etc to see that there are homeless people on a large scale...heck there's a semi-naked homeless guy up the road in Preston that regularly walks around with his erm....faculties on display. Admittedly I'm picking on one guy, but there are dozens of beggars everywhere and I doubt many of them wash themselves...I guess their priorities are food.
3. UK education is on the whole pretty good, but even that's dumbed down nowadays...don't worry there's many illiterate people in the UK, you may well just be seeing this due to the low population and the fact that a lot of people will head for a city for the chance of any work, hence you'll cross them more...I don't know. At least Kiwi's seem to want to work....here there's a large majority happy to play the system for benefits...I know a number of people (they've been investigated too!), that still claim benefits for things like vertigo and undetermined chronic pain. The number of people for example, walking with a stick one day, then perfectly well the next is shocking.
4. Violence....just look at the news of the UK, yes it's sensationalised to a degree, but it's still there. Gang fighting is in every city...Moss side is a no go for one tiny example, and that's an estate, not just a bar.
5. Wellington is bang on the Cook Strait, it's called Windy Wellington for a reason...that wind channels between the islands and speeds up. It;s exposed, so gets a hammering...I lived on the hill in Lyall bay and wow was that blustery.....It's definitely warmer further North, some parts have a climate on par with California.
6. Housing....Yes, it's wooden, ours used to be til they got jittery after the Great Fires and started using stone and brick. I'd sooner wood hit me in an earthquake than stone...but I get your point. There are brick houses in NZ, and as you say heating and insulation is improving all the time. Compared to Canada and the US, we pale in comparison with our level of housing and it's thermal/energy saving properties. My kid bro lives in Ohio, his place is wood framed and Weatherboard, and it's far better at retaining heat than a brick house...it's just some of the older houses in NZ have yet to be upgraded as it were. Not to burst your bubble, but most terraced houses had no central heating til the last 20 years maybe...the place I'm in now still has no heating whatsoever, and only has double glazing coz the landlord put it in...now it's hot in summer and freezing in winter.
7. Kiwi work ethic...that is bad....overtime is overtime, and people should get paid for it, but a lot of our emergency services are going the way of volunteer work. TA ? (token pay), Community Police? St Johns Ambulance?, RLNI? There's lots of volunteers in these areas, so NZ is not unique. Admittedly, our system treats its workers a little better maybe, but there's hundreds of careers that are commission only and sales driven, so the pressure to do long hours is there even if it's not stated. Self employed people like me are probably worse...I lose count of the hours answering technical queries that I get no reward for.
Anyway, all of this is not to have a go back at you, merely to highlight that problems exist wherever you go...i could list the same for Spain, Germany, The USA.....you name it. As you say...it all really boils down to what quality of life you want, and can get in the particular country you wish to live in or emigrate to.....
Glas you're loving NZ though, despite your reservations. Rich
true points, i probably see things differently for the job i do, and agree the UK isnt better than NZ, its certainly safer, the 11 months here are the longest ive gone without being assaulted at work, and we look after the mob too.
As for the volunteer mentality sometimes they want you to do it for free, which is scary cos when does it end. on some days it seems most of the ambulance are volunteers, much respect to em, they are treated like a mark on a hotel sheet alot of the time, and thats by their by other ambo officers.
Valid points Rich, yeah im staying here, thats cos their are good points too, and somethings can be changed, not really into giving up. Its alot of fun here, but i dont have the rosey tinted eyes that many new peeps here have, i used to though. Also dont do the kiwi trick of not saying anything negative about kiwi land, so no im not a born again kiwi.
Good thing about UK peeps is that we can be negative about our own country but still love it
Aug 27th 2006, 7:05 am
#9
Member of Mumo-land
Joined: Oct 2003
Location: DownUnder
Posts: 771
Re: not all it seems, (no bitchy comments pls)
There was an interesting article in today's 'Sunday' mag entitled 'So Average'.
The intro reads:
'You're all right, but you're nothing special, are you? Really, you're just ... average.
Steve Braunias looks at the mainstream middle-brow life of that working, parenting, fat, short, drunk, broke but triumphant beast - the average New Zealander'
I tried to find a link to it but no luck.
Another excerpt: ' 2,212,000 cars are registered in NZ to drive to work. You do work, don't you? That would be an average thing to do - there are 2,050,000 NZers in employment. God knows why you bother. the money is lousy. Only 6% of NZers want to live here because of the level of wages and salaries. Ave wage of checkout operator $18,246; Kitchen hand $20,029; Storeman $21,789; Receptionist $28,731, Nurse $39,468.
All up the average wage and salery earner is on 719 a week, or an ave hrly rate of $21.95 (find that hard to believe myself!). Money in, money out, the bulk of it goes on housing (ave: 347.10 a week; food ave: 160.90; transport 120.70). this may have someth to do withthe stat that 65% of us cmopare prices when shopping for groceries. mealwhile the ave NZer has to work 151 to pay off all their taxes!' (wonder what it is in the UK?)
Might be interesting for someone.... remember it's not my words - it's in a national magazine here.
The intro reads:
'You're all right, but you're nothing special, are you? Really, you're just ... average.
Steve Braunias looks at the mainstream middle-brow life of that working, parenting, fat, short, drunk, broke but triumphant beast - the average New Zealander'
I tried to find a link to it but no luck.
Another excerpt: ' 2,212,000 cars are registered in NZ to drive to work. You do work, don't you? That would be an average thing to do - there are 2,050,000 NZers in employment. God knows why you bother. the money is lousy. Only 6% of NZers want to live here because of the level of wages and salaries. Ave wage of checkout operator $18,246; Kitchen hand $20,029; Storeman $21,789; Receptionist $28,731, Nurse $39,468.
All up the average wage and salery earner is on 719 a week, or an ave hrly rate of $21.95 (find that hard to believe myself!). Money in, money out, the bulk of it goes on housing (ave: 347.10 a week; food ave: 160.90; transport 120.70). this may have someth to do withthe stat that 65% of us cmopare prices when shopping for groceries. mealwhile the ave NZer has to work 151 to pay off all their taxes!' (wonder what it is in the UK?)
Might be interesting for someone.... remember it's not my words - it's in a national magazine here.
Aug 27th 2006, 9:02 am
#10
Joined: May 2005
Location: Abu Dhabi
Posts: 962
Re: not all it seems, (no bitchy comments pls)
Originally Posted by Sugo
true points, i probably see things differently for the job i do, and agree the UK isnt better than NZ, its certainly safer, the 11 months here are the longest ive gone without being assaulted at work, and we look after the mob too.
As for the volunteer mentality sometimes they want you to do it for free, which is scary cos when does it end. on some days it seems most of the ambulance are volunteers, much respect to em, they are treated like a mark on a hotel sheet alot of the time, and thats by their by other ambo officers.
Valid points Rich, yeah im staying here, thats cos their are good points too, and somethings can be changed, not really into giving up. Its alot of fun here, but i dont have the rosey tinted eyes that many new peeps here have, i used to though. Also dont do the kiwi trick of not saying anything negative about kiwi land, so no im not a born again kiwi.
Good thing about UK peeps is that we can be negative about our own country but still love it
As for the volunteer mentality sometimes they want you to do it for free, which is scary cos when does it end. on some days it seems most of the ambulance are volunteers, much respect to em, they are treated like a mark on a hotel sheet alot of the time, and thats by their by other ambo officers.
Valid points Rich, yeah im staying here, thats cos their are good points too, and somethings can be changed, not really into giving up. Its alot of fun here, but i dont have the rosey tinted eyes that many new peeps here have, i used to though. Also dont do the kiwi trick of not saying anything negative about kiwi land, so no im not a born again kiwi.
Good thing about UK peeps is that we can be negative about our own country but still love it
Is there anywhere in the world that would give you all that you seek?? if so please tell.....
Several of the points you listed to start with definately do exist in NZ, however you imply that they are the norm, and this certainly is not the case, I also would applaud all those volunteers in NZ and suggest that every person should contribute something back into their community - whether it be healthcare, emergency services, or just helping old folk play backgammon on a Sunday afternoon - these are the areas the UK has lost the plot and NZ has perserved some old-fashioned values in life....... really, when the kids are outdoors all day playing in a muddy field or on a beach who the hell cares if they've not had a bath all day?????... And what country in this world actually educates their children to the whole world... NZ is at the bottom of the world, it's nearest neighbours are a barran desert conalised by convicts with oceans surrounding it - who cares about the french revolution?????????? (no offence to the aussies over the ditch who LOST the Bledisloe Cup last week) !!!!
MMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmm.....
Aug 27th 2006, 11:03 am
#11
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 2,389
Re: not all it seems, (no bitchy comments pls)
Sugo -Thank goodness for a few negative posts and that the peeps here (so far)are not like the oz forum peeps who get their claws out.
However I would like to say- why do people often use "I'm drunk" or "I'm drinking" to excuse posts? I don't mind someone telling it as it is! Don't hide behind the drink 'own' your own thoughts.
Look guys I know about poor pay I've worked as a nursery nurse on and off for 30 yrs and always had low basic pay. Yes even now with 30 yrs experience behind me with disabled kids, special needs kids, poor kids in London (save the children fund job) I'm still on a £6.00 an hour. My children earn more than me with their holiday jobs- son in an office scanning info and daughter waitressing. If it wasn't for the fact that I believe I can do a good job with these kids I'd feel very 'worthless'.
I know that if we get to nz we'll be poor, I'm not even sure they'll accept my qualifications so i might find I'm doing an unskilled job and earning even less pay than I have now.
Please continue to post the negatives with backup info. We do need to see NZ in a balanced way.
However I would like to say- why do people often use "I'm drunk" or "I'm drinking" to excuse posts? I don't mind someone telling it as it is! Don't hide behind the drink 'own' your own thoughts.
Look guys I know about poor pay I've worked as a nursery nurse on and off for 30 yrs and always had low basic pay. Yes even now with 30 yrs experience behind me with disabled kids, special needs kids, poor kids in London (save the children fund job) I'm still on a £6.00 an hour. My children earn more than me with their holiday jobs- son in an office scanning info and daughter waitressing.
If it wasn't for the fact that I believe I can do a good job with these kids I'd feel very 'worthless'.I know that if we get to nz we'll be poor, I'm not even sure they'll accept my qualifications so i might find I'm doing an unskilled job and earning even less pay than I have now.
Please continue to post the negatives with backup info. We do need to see NZ in a balanced way.
Aug 27th 2006, 3:39 pm
#12
Forum Regular
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 145
Re: not all it seems, (no bitchy comments pls)
Originally Posted by Sugo
Ok gotta be careful on this one, I think people should know some of the things that they should expect that they dont tell you in the brochure for NZ.
Alot of it has already been covered before in various threads.
1) New Zealand is not a secular country like the UK, there is a strong religious element here, great if your religious, not so great if your not or you are on their undesirable list. Religion here seems in some areas to be forced into your face, i work with people who try to convert other staff every day, its on the TV (the scary evangelical kind) Destiny church (see evil cult) seems to think they have a right to take over public places for their events, even having their own 'police force' WTF.
2) Poverty. There are very poor people here. I work in a hospital so meet all sorts of people. There are alot of people who dont wash themselves or their clothes, some dont eat enough, there is alot of illness in the more poverty stricken people.
3) Many I see through work can barely read or write. People seem generally dim. The schools only teach NZ history, and unless they went to university many people dont have a grasp on the world. Its a bit (not as bad) as America.
4) Violence. Not nearly as bad as UK, but it does happen. There is a gang culture here, with the Mongrel Mob, Black Power, White supremacists, and various bike gangs. They mainly fight between them selves but they are certainly unnerving when you come across of a group of em day or night. Some areas the Police just wont go. My partner works with the Police and some places like bars, they have walked into and come straight out soon as.
5) Weather. Its cold, i lived in the south of England before here and i feel that its colder here than in the UK. You really do get all seasons in one day, can have rain non stop for a week. But flip side was that the summer seemed warmer than the UK, but last years one didnt last that long. I live in Wellington BTW might be nicer more north. Ive heard Christchurch gets good summers.
6) Housing. Not as good quality as the UK, most are wood (good reason lighter to land on you in an earthquake) and have no insulation, can feel colder in doors than out. Double glazing is rare, as is central heating. However things are improving. Insulation seems to be more available, there is more choice in heating, and the Kiwis i talk to are seeing things can be better.
7) Kiwi work ethic. Not sure its a bad thing but its a culture shock. there seems to be a strong work ethic in Healthcare at least. They will try to pressurise you into working as much as possible, and the kiwis dont mind, some work double shifts (16 hours) and dont claim the extra pay they should get cos of this. There is a huge volunteer mentality. Half the ambulance service seems to consist of volunteers, as does the rescue police, fire. Then work tries to get you in on your days off to do study and training, with no pay. I feel like a mercenary, i just wont do it. Kiwis dont seem to enjoy their time off, its all work work work. My partner works 50 hours a week, then does an ambo night shift in the middle then does St John volunteering on the weekend. We live together and i still think hes mad.
But i still like living here, i love England but on a nurses salary i cant afford to live their the way i do here. New Zealand has a great many good points, but if your thinking of coming here dont just go on the adverts or guide books, like any country there are the good bad and the ugly.
I dont think i could go back to England to live just yet. Saying that I'm not looking forward to visiting next year. The thought of leaving all over again scares me a little, will be even harder to get back on that plane.
(sorry for the poor grammar, im half asleep and still a little drunk on the cheap whiskey thats cheaper here than the UK he he its not all bad)
Alot of it has already been covered before in various threads.
1) New Zealand is not a secular country like the UK, there is a strong religious element here, great if your religious, not so great if your not or you are on their undesirable list. Religion here seems in some areas to be forced into your face, i work with people who try to convert other staff every day, its on the TV (the scary evangelical kind) Destiny church (see evil cult) seems to think they have a right to take over public places for their events, even having their own 'police force' WTF.
2) Poverty. There are very poor people here. I work in a hospital so meet all sorts of people. There are alot of people who dont wash themselves or their clothes, some dont eat enough, there is alot of illness in the more poverty stricken people.
3) Many I see through work can barely read or write. People seem generally dim. The schools only teach NZ history, and unless they went to university many people dont have a grasp on the world. Its a bit (not as bad) as America.
4) Violence. Not nearly as bad as UK, but it does happen. There is a gang culture here, with the Mongrel Mob, Black Power, White supremacists, and various bike gangs. They mainly fight between them selves but they are certainly unnerving when you come across of a group of em day or night. Some areas the Police just wont go. My partner works with the Police and some places like bars, they have walked into and come straight out soon as.
5) Weather. Its cold, i lived in the south of England before here and i feel that its colder here than in the UK. You really do get all seasons in one day, can have rain non stop for a week. But flip side was that the summer seemed warmer than the UK, but last years one didnt last that long. I live in Wellington BTW might be nicer more north. Ive heard Christchurch gets good summers.
6) Housing. Not as good quality as the UK, most are wood (good reason lighter to land on you in an earthquake) and have no insulation, can feel colder in doors than out. Double glazing is rare, as is central heating. However things are improving. Insulation seems to be more available, there is more choice in heating, and the Kiwis i talk to are seeing things can be better.
7) Kiwi work ethic. Not sure its a bad thing but its a culture shock. there seems to be a strong work ethic in Healthcare at least. They will try to pressurise you into working as much as possible, and the kiwis dont mind, some work double shifts (16 hours) and dont claim the extra pay they should get cos of this. There is a huge volunteer mentality. Half the ambulance service seems to consist of volunteers, as does the rescue police, fire. Then work tries to get you in on your days off to do study and training, with no pay. I feel like a mercenary, i just wont do it. Kiwis dont seem to enjoy their time off, its all work work work. My partner works 50 hours a week, then does an ambo night shift in the middle then does St John volunteering on the weekend. We live together and i still think hes mad.
But i still like living here, i love England but on a nurses salary i cant afford to live their the way i do here. New Zealand has a great many good points, but if your thinking of coming here dont just go on the adverts or guide books, like any country there are the good bad and the ugly.
I dont think i could go back to England to live just yet. Saying that I'm not looking forward to visiting next year. The thought of leaving all over again scares me a little, will be even harder to get back on that plane.
(sorry for the poor grammar, im half asleep and still a little drunk on the cheap whiskey thats cheaper here than the UK he he its not all bad)
What a fantastic post and thats just the tip of the iceburg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
K9
Aug 28th 2006, 5:58 am
#13
A land far far away
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: Northland
Posts: 1,288
Re: not all it seems, (no bitchy comments pls)
I wonder if it depends on where you live in New Zealand, though?
I can only comment on where we are so I'm not doing a sweeping generalisation of this is what you will see in New Zealand and this is what you wont! All I'm saying is this is what I see in the tiny area of New Zealand that I live in
We are up in the far north outside a tiny village - our nearest city is just over an hour away and its not that big!
We have not come across any religious element at all - if anyone we have met has been a member of a certain religion or had any religious ideas we weren't made aware of them. We have just met a lot of very down to earth, friendly generous folk - and to be honest I couldn't care less what religion they are/were if any. I would if it was rammed down my throat though - but it hasn't been.
There is definitely poverty up here - but again it depends on how you want to see it - are the people with not a lot of money ( as we would see it) unhappy? Honestly I have seen very little evidence of unhappiness - our village is full of super happy smiley people!! I think some of us may have to revise our opinion on what poverty actually means - I used to think that people who were on the breadline couldn't be that happy - because everything would be a struggle - ( and one person's idea of 'poor' is another's idea of well off) I think I was wrong to believe this. I've completely revised my opinion - its not terrible - its just different to what we may be used to. Yes, I'm sure everyone would like to have a bit more money - its human nature, but people up here are proud of their village, their homes - and everything is pretty immaculate. Then again, I used to live in the east end of Glasgow.....
Can't comment on the reading and writing thing at all.
Haven't seen any violence at all.
Housing! that old chestnut! Not saying our house is the warmest thing in the world in the winter - but a good wood burner makes it totally cosy. You can insulate them and think of all the positives of having a wooden house - if you want a new window you just cut a hole in the wall and stick it in! Voila - new window! Piece of piss I wouldn't change my old tiny villa for anything.
and the work ethic one - well thats how I used to work in the UK! more fool me - its not a kiwi thing, I'm sure it happens all over the world if you let yourself be bullied into it ( like I did) - thats why I have a farm now - I answer to me!! heehee
I'm not saying I disagree with your post - I thought it was great - but NZ is a big place - there are huge differences - it would be like saying Islay and London would be the same to live in - it's just not the case!!!
I can only comment on where we are so I'm not doing a sweeping generalisation of this is what you will see in New Zealand and this is what you wont! All I'm saying is this is what I see in the tiny area of New Zealand that I live in
We are up in the far north outside a tiny village - our nearest city is just over an hour away and its not that big!
We have not come across any religious element at all - if anyone we have met has been a member of a certain religion or had any religious ideas we weren't made aware of them. We have just met a lot of very down to earth, friendly generous folk - and to be honest I couldn't care less what religion they are/were if any. I would if it was rammed down my throat though - but it hasn't been.
There is definitely poverty up here - but again it depends on how you want to see it - are the people with not a lot of money ( as we would see it) unhappy? Honestly I have seen very little evidence of unhappiness - our village is full of super happy smiley people!! I think some of us may have to revise our opinion on what poverty actually means - I used to think that people who were on the breadline couldn't be that happy - because everything would be a struggle - ( and one person's idea of 'poor' is another's idea of well off) I think I was wrong to believe this. I've completely revised my opinion - its not terrible - its just different to what we may be used to. Yes, I'm sure everyone would like to have a bit more money - its human nature, but people up here are proud of their village, their homes - and everything is pretty immaculate. Then again, I used to live in the east end of Glasgow.....
Can't comment on the reading and writing thing at all.
Haven't seen any violence at all.
Housing! that old chestnut! Not saying our house is the warmest thing in the world in the winter - but a good wood burner makes it totally cosy. You can insulate them and think of all the positives of having a wooden house - if you want a new window you just cut a hole in the wall and stick it in! Voila - new window! Piece of piss
I wouldn't change my old tiny villa for anything.and the work ethic one - well thats how I used to work in the UK! more fool me - its not a kiwi thing, I'm sure it happens all over the world if you let yourself be bullied into it ( like I did) - thats why I have a farm now - I answer to me!! heehee
I'm not saying I disagree with your post - I thought it was great - but NZ is a big place - there are huge differences - it would be like saying Islay and London would be the same to live in - it's just not the case!!!
Aug 28th 2006, 6:46 am
#14
BE Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 493
Re: not all it seems, (no bitchy comments pls)
Originally Posted by P18PPS
Reading all these points, I'd be interested to know where you would choose to live given the opportunity??? And, what would you change if you had a magic wand???
Is there anywhere in the world that would give you all that you seek?? if so please tell.....
Several of the points you listed to start with definately do exist in NZ, however you imply that they are the norm, and this certainly is not the case, I also would applaud all those volunteers in NZ and suggest that every person should contribute something back into their community - whether it be healthcare, emergency services, or just helping old folk play backgammon on a Sunday afternoon - these are the areas the UK has lost the plot and NZ has perserved some old-fashioned values in life....... really, when the kids are outdoors all day playing in a muddy field or on a beach who the hell cares if they've not had a bath all day?????... And what country in this world actually educates their children to the whole world... NZ is at the bottom of the world, it's nearest neighbours are a barran desert conalised by convicts with oceans surrounding it - who cares about the french revolution?????????? (no offence to the aussies over the ditch who LOST the Bledisloe Cup last week) !!!!
MMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmm.....
Is there anywhere in the world that would give you all that you seek?? if so please tell.....
Several of the points you listed to start with definately do exist in NZ, however you imply that they are the norm, and this certainly is not the case, I also would applaud all those volunteers in NZ and suggest that every person should contribute something back into their community - whether it be healthcare, emergency services, or just helping old folk play backgammon on a Sunday afternoon - these are the areas the UK has lost the plot and NZ has perserved some old-fashioned values in life....... really, when the kids are outdoors all day playing in a muddy field or on a beach who the hell cares if they've not had a bath all day?????... And what country in this world actually educates their children to the whole world... NZ is at the bottom of the world, it's nearest neighbours are a barran desert conalised by convicts with oceans surrounding it - who cares about the french revolution?????????? (no offence to the aussies over the ditch who LOST the Bledisloe Cup last week) !!!!
MMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmm.....
when it comes to muddy kids i dont mean the ones who wear clean clothes in the morning then after 20 mins they are filthy, thats normal, what i see at work is kids who in the UK would be referred to social services for neglect. they smell bad, clothes are filthy and its not healthy.
as for the drink that explains my poor spelling and grammar, (explain see excuse)
You right it depends where you are, some areas better than none, i like wellington alot but just the point of the post is to say to newbies or those who dont live here that its not like the lovely holiday in rotorua, or what you read in the guide books.
its not a 'lets knock NZ cos its shite' thread, it just points out some of the negatives
oh and i doubt there is anywhere in the world that is perfect for me, and life is a continuum for a few years will live here, then Melbourne, maybe canada then might settle down in the south of the island.
Aug 28th 2006, 7:08 am
#15
`
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 38,613
Re: not all it seems, (no bitchy comments pls)
FWIW Sugo, your thread and inital post are a breath of fresh air. It just gives some balance to life elsewhere. Very brave given that many of the migrant forums including this one have members waiting in the wings to bring such a post down by fair means or foul. Mostly such posts used to be flamed . Its good to see that your views are not being rubbished.
New Zealand is a country all of its own, with its own ways of being. Its not the same as anywhere else. Its New Zealand.
I feel your post, sugo, highlighted this. It is a very honest but more importantly an open-viewed post. There is no slant to it.
To anyone hoping to come out to Nz I would say that Sugos is not what, in forum life, is termed a 'negative post' . Its simply a statement of how life can be here & for many how it is.
People can twist , turn or have one of those 'takes' on your comments and observations all they like. The facts of your posts remain.
New Zealand look lovely. It is not perfect. for many Pakeka and Pasifika , it has its very real problems.
I'm impressed Sugo. Karma coming your way.
New Zealand is a country all of its own, with its own ways of being. Its not the same as anywhere else. Its New Zealand.
I feel your post, sugo, highlighted this. It is a very honest but more importantly an open-viewed post. There is no slant to it.
To anyone hoping to come out to Nz I would say that Sugos is not what, in forum life, is termed a 'negative post' . Its simply a statement of how life can be here & for many how it is.
People can twist , turn or have one of those 'takes' on your comments and observations all they like. The facts of your posts remain.
New Zealand look lovely. It is not perfect. for many Pakeka and Pasifika , it has its very real problems.
I'm impressed Sugo. Karma coming your way.