lardyl

well my folks had (and still have very little) other than property that they inherited early on in their married life, what with pension funds being syphoned and low rates of pay
they didn't subsidise our house in UK quite as much as some, but they helped with the deposit so we could get a cheaper mortgage - we payed them back as we earned and they have been there when needed and did help me to get through university (making a cobntribution when there were "parental contributions" to your LEA grant). This helped even though I worked throughout each summer for ICI,etc and did not do the big Inter-rail/Bunac/world travel thing (which I now regret).....and then had two jobs concurrently going in between uni courses
At the moment there is no way we could do that for our kids (they are 6 and 2 mind!).
Maybe everyone who is happy in NZ is a self-starter and those who are not need more of an impetus to move in the right (???) direction??

is vic there...

it was the herald or press on-line a fews day ago..........

CharlesMacLeod

Under those circumstances I can't understand how you can describe NZ as "third world" . Having been to Yemen, Pakistan and Egypt my definition of "third world" is somewhat different. Also, comparing the areas of Wellington I can afford to live with the areas of SE England I could afford, I can assure you that bits of the Medway towns are closer to "third world" than Tawa or Karori.

The place has its problems, but where hasn't?

The question of what to do with regard to children's future. Yes, it may be hard for my son to buy his own place in NZ when he grows up if things stay the same. He would find it just as hard to buy somewhere in the SE of England if we stayed here.

I have no doubt that when he grows up my son is likely to do his OE. He may not come back to NZ. What is so wrong about that? Most of us on this site have either chosen to move countries to better ourselves or are seriously considering it. To complain about my son possibly having move country to do the same would be hypocritical on my part.

Also, I know that this is a controversial topic, but I honestly think my son has a chance of a better education in Wellington than in Gillingham and that has to be factored in. After all, he will stand a better chance of buying a property as a systems analyst in NZ than stacking shelves in the UK (and yes I do know that not all IT staff earn loads in NZ or the UK (although looking at how much my company pays contractors it occasionally feels that way!)

is vic there...

hey,i have no doubt that weelington is a better place than gillingham...having lived in NZ twice over the last few years i understand a little about the country....there are good schools in wellington and the ffe's are blody cheap compared to cost in the UK.........but still why is home ownership falling off so badly something like from 73% down to 67%....huge drop over last few years....this hasn't happened in the UK.........

bourbon-biscuit

No, but it doesn't make it a third world country. In what way is it?

southerner

Lets face it, until a few years ago NZ property was relatively cheap, and home ownership was high by international standards. I suspect that in part of the catching up with the rest of the world, we are not immune to the same trends as overseas, and more (probably young) people are flatting than before. Student debt may be another contributing factor, along with the well publicised affordability issues.

Like some others have said, and from a bit of a selfish viewpoint, our kids probably have the best of both worlds. They can grow up and be educated in one of the best countries in the world for kids, and they will always have the opportunity to travel and work abroad (and particularly in Oz, UK and Europe). Maybe I'm just seeing the glass as half full in this case.

So long as the s**t doesn't hit the fan, the world will continue to be their oyster.

is vic there...

.........for kids............v high infant mortality.......v high child neglect/mortality/abuse...world highest teen suicide rate.....damp houses & high asmatic issue's high rates of poorly fed children....no shoes,going to school with empty bellies.........3d world ?!?!........maybe tonue in cheek,but definitely not 1st world........

CharlesMacLeod

I have no doubt that all of the above is true. I have no doubt that on average these stats are all worse in NZ than in the UK for example, BUT if you were to compare these stats for the areas I can afford to live in in the UK (the nearest schools to where I currently live are described as "being in as area of significant urban deprivation")against the stats for the area in Wellington I hope to move to (Tawa for example) and I would imagine things are somewhat different.

In the end we all move to NZ with a real desire to live a better life, and have a better upbringing for our children (if we have any). The chances of achieving that are affected by a number of factors, one of the most important of which is how crappy your situation is in the UK!!

is vic there...

fair enough.......

southerner

Definitely is too....NZ is about mid table on most stats on OECD league tables (generally accepted as the definitive list of first world countries). That doesn't mean it doesn't have problems, in fact all countries on that list have problems. Look at some of the scandi countries, often near the top of the leagues for most measures, but also suffer poorly on other measures; eg. the rate of suicides in Sweden.

And I'll stand by my comments about kids - for me, there is no better place to bring up my kids that I am aware of.

bourbon-biscuit

But you could apply all those to kids in the UK too- you're taking a snap shot of the poorest people in NZs lives and concluding it's a third world nation. Having a huge wealth-poverty gap doesn't make it third world- it means there is a huge underbelly to NZ and I doubt anyone would deny or dispute that. Have you looked at poverty and the wealth-poverty gap in America or in the UK?

PS no shoes is a cultural thing and it does show a lack of cultural understanding to declare it an indicator of poverty. Even wealthy kids go barefoot in winter here- although locals tell me less and less so.


You're right. My kids are having the childhood here I could only of dreamed about for them in the UK.

Nerine

Kids in NZ do have a pretty good childhood, for the younger ones it's probably a lot safer and more free than it would be for them in most developed countries.

NZBee

Dammit! I didn't know about that restaurant in London, and lived there for years!! Don't forget Peter Gordon's Providores though...the Tapas room on the ground floor serves Kiwi classics on Marylebone High Street! They even have L and P!