Is it just me.....
Aug 2nd 2011, 1:14 pm
#1
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 269
Is it just me.....
Hi all, posted this on the Oz forum, but I know you lot better so value your input:
..or is this just insane.
We were given a talk today, on the legalities of how to deal (sic) with children you suspect of possessing drugs in school:
1. It is illegal to search a child.
2. It is illegal to search the bag of a child.
3. (and this is the killer) If you confiscate the drugs off the child, you can be charged with possession!
..or is this just insane.
We were given a talk today, on the legalities of how to deal (sic) with children you suspect of possessing drugs in school:
1. It is illegal to search a child.
2. It is illegal to search the bag of a child.
3. (and this is the killer) If you confiscate the drugs off the child, you can be charged with possession!
Aug 2nd 2011, 1:22 pm
#2
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Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 269
Re: Is it just me.....
Hi all, posted this on the Oz forum, but I know you lot better so value your input:
..or is this just insane.
We were given a talk today, on the legalities of how to deal (sic) with children you suspect of possessing drugs in school:
1. It is illegal to search a child.
2. It is illegal to search the bag of a child.
3. (and this is the killer) If you confiscate the drugs off the child, you can be charged with possession!
..or is this just insane.
We were given a talk today, on the legalities of how to deal (sic) with children you suspect of possessing drugs in school:
1. It is illegal to search a child.
2. It is illegal to search the bag of a child.
3. (and this is the killer) If you confiscate the drugs off the child, you can be charged with possession!
Aug 2nd 2011, 1:41 pm
#3
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 334
Re: Is it just me.....
Shocking...Teachers don't have enough clout these days. I think they do a tough job and should be given much more support, mainly by the parents. I certainly would not have a problem with a teacher searching bags...my daughter once had a friend over for a sleepover (age 13) the girl in question was taken home as she seemed to be getting drunk. When I questioned her if she had brought alcohol with her, I got a mouthful of cheek and told that I had no right to mistrust her and no she wouldn't tip out her bag! Thankfully that friendship did not last. Whatever happened to kids having a bit of respect?
Aug 2nd 2011, 1:46 pm
#4
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Joined: Jul 2011
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Re: Is it just me.....
Shocking...Teachers don't have enough clout these days. I think they do a tough job and should be given much more support, mainly by the parents. I certainly would not have a problem with a teacher searching bags...my daughter once had a friend over for a sleepover (age 13) the girl in question was taken home as she seemed to be getting drunk. When I questioned her if she had brought alcohol with her, I got a mouthful of cheek and told that I had no right to mistrust her and no she wouldn't tip out her bag! Thankfully that friendship did not last. Whatever happened to kids having a bit of respect?
Aug 2nd 2011, 4:48 pm
#5
Truth is the safest lie.
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: @ the beach.
Posts: 7,243
Re: Is it just me.....
For example a lot of amphetamines where available OTC form the 1920's onwards thanks to advance in chemical synthesis, in fact they where prescribed for all sorts of things from students struggling to study to soldiers at war. With changes in law in the 50's it went underground. Of course amphetamines in natural forms derived from plants, and often consumed as teas, had been used for more than 3000 years across China, India and the middle east.
Cocaine is relatively new to our society at just 150 years old (the crystallised form even newer) but use pre-dates this in South America...actually it's use pre-dates European arrival so probably thousands of years as well. Of course the freebased forms that made them more bio-available (crack cocaine) only came along in the 1980's.
The effects of LSD date back to antiquity (ergot poisoning) but it wasn't formally synthesised until the 1940's. Its effects seem to have been widely explored by the U.S. army but only in the 60's was it banned amongst people who where realising the interesting effects.
Opium used dates back at least 4000 years in Europe and was popular even in the U.S. since the 1850's when the Chinese came to escape famine and built railroads. Of course Heroin didn't catch on as a recreational drug until the 1950's.
Ecstasy was only purified in the 1920's but natural sources and similar compounds have been used for thousands of years.
Khat, Marajuana, Alcohol and Tobacco have been in use for most of human history.
So society's have been using drugs since time began, new derivatives are more addictive (particularly heroin, cocaine and meth amphetamine), but use has been widespread throughout history.
So...umm...drugs are bad mmm'kay?
Aug 2nd 2011, 5:13 pm
#6
Truth is the safest lie.
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: @ the beach.
Posts: 7,243
Re: Is it just me.....
...Portugal, which in 2001 became the first European country to officially abolish all criminal penalties for personal possession of drugs, including marijuana, cocaine, heroin and methamphetamine.
At the recommendation of a national commission charged with addressing Portugal's drug problem, jail time was replaced with the offer of therapy.
The question is, does the new policy work? At the time, critics in the poor, socially conservative and largely Catholic nation said decriminalizing drug possession would open the country to "drug tourists" and exacerbate Portugal's drug problem; the country had some of the highest levels of hard-drug use in Europe. But the recently released results of a report commissioned by the Cato Institute, a libertarian think tank, suggest otherwise.
The paper, published by Cato in April, found that in the five years after personal possession was decriminalized, illegal drug use among teens in Portugal declined and rates of new HIV infections caused by sharing of dirty needles dropped, while the number of people seeking treatment for drug addiction more than doubled.
"Judging by every metric, decriminalization in Portugal has been a resounding success," says Glenn Greenwald, an attorney, author and fluent Portuguese speaker, who conducted the research. "It has enabled the Portuguese government to manage and control the drug problem far better than virtually every other Western country does."
Compared to the European Union and the U.S., Portugal's drug use numbers are impressive. Following decriminalization, Portugal had the lowest rate of lifetime marijuana use in people over 15 in the E.U.: 10%. The most comparable figure in America is in people over 12: 39.8%. Proportionally, more Americans have used cocaine than Portuguese have used marijuana.
The Cato paper reports that between 2001 and 2006 in Portugal, rates of lifetime use of any illegal drug among seventh through ninth graders fell from 14.1% to 10.6%; drug use in older teens also declined. Lifetime heroin use among 16-to-18-year-olds fell from 2.5% to 1.8% (although there was a slight increase in marijuana use in that age group). New HIV infections in drug users fell by 17% between 1999 and 2003, and deaths related to heroin and similar drugs were cut by more than half. In addition, the number of people on methadone and buprenorphine treatment for drug addiction rose to 14,877 from 6,040, after decriminalization, and money saved on enforcement allowed for increased funding of drug-free treatment as well.
At the recommendation of a national commission charged with addressing Portugal's drug problem, jail time was replaced with the offer of therapy.
The question is, does the new policy work? At the time, critics in the poor, socially conservative and largely Catholic nation said decriminalizing drug possession would open the country to "drug tourists" and exacerbate Portugal's drug problem; the country had some of the highest levels of hard-drug use in Europe. But the recently released results of a report commissioned by the Cato Institute, a libertarian think tank, suggest otherwise.
The paper, published by Cato in April, found that in the five years after personal possession was decriminalized, illegal drug use among teens in Portugal declined and rates of new HIV infections caused by sharing of dirty needles dropped, while the number of people seeking treatment for drug addiction more than doubled.
"Judging by every metric, decriminalization in Portugal has been a resounding success," says Glenn Greenwald, an attorney, author and fluent Portuguese speaker, who conducted the research. "It has enabled the Portuguese government to manage and control the drug problem far better than virtually every other Western country does."
Compared to the European Union and the U.S., Portugal's drug use numbers are impressive. Following decriminalization, Portugal had the lowest rate of lifetime marijuana use in people over 15 in the E.U.: 10%. The most comparable figure in America is in people over 12: 39.8%. Proportionally, more Americans have used cocaine than Portuguese have used marijuana.
The Cato paper reports that between 2001 and 2006 in Portugal, rates of lifetime use of any illegal drug among seventh through ninth graders fell from 14.1% to 10.6%; drug use in older teens also declined. Lifetime heroin use among 16-to-18-year-olds fell from 2.5% to 1.8% (although there was a slight increase in marijuana use in that age group). New HIV infections in drug users fell by 17% between 1999 and 2003, and deaths related to heroin and similar drugs were cut by more than half. In addition, the number of people on methadone and buprenorphine treatment for drug addiction rose to 14,877 from 6,040, after decriminalization, and money saved on enforcement allowed for increased funding of drug-free treatment as well.
But drugs are still bad in New Zealand...mmm'kay?
Aug 2nd 2011, 6:11 pm
#7
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 334
Re: Is it just me.....
No! Having said that, I have managed to attain the grand old age of 40 and never knowingly met a real live drug dealer! I think it is horrific that people who have the potential to help in these situations ie teachers don't get the support. It must be difficult if you have gone into a job hoping to "Make a difference" only to have your hands tied.
Aug 2nd 2011, 11:51 pm
#8
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,208
Re: Is it just me.....
Bloody stupid.
If that was my teenager I'd want them confiscated and for me to be called immediately and then flog said teenager with a wet kipper ...
I remember some family friends who had a son at one of the top private schools in the UK. He was found in possession of cocaine at school (boarding) about the age of 15 I think and was ordered by the teacher to flush it down the loo, which he did in front of the teacher.
It was only about 10 years or so later, when the same son was in rehab for a cocaine and heroin addiction and alcoholism that he told them the story. They had known nothing about it. Not saying whether it would or wouldn't have made a difference to the outcome, but needless to say his parents were devastated and disappointed.
If that was my teenager I'd want them confiscated and for me to be called immediately and then flog said teenager with a wet kipper ...I remember some family friends who had a son at one of the top private schools in the UK. He was found in possession of cocaine at school (boarding) about the age of 15 I think and was ordered by the teacher to flush it down the loo, which he did in front of the teacher.
It was only about 10 years or so later, when the same son was in rehab for a cocaine and heroin addiction and alcoholism that he told them the story. They had known nothing about it. Not saying whether it would or wouldn't have made a difference to the outcome, but needless to say his parents were devastated and disappointed.
Aug 3rd 2011, 1:26 am
#9
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Joined: Jul 2009
Location: New Zealand!
Posts: 877
Re: Is it just me.....
Hi all, posted this on the Oz forum, but I know you lot better so value your input:
..or is this just insane.
We were given a talk today, on the legalities of how to deal (sic) with children you suspect of possessing drugs in school:
1. It is illegal to search a child.
2. It is illegal to search the bag of a child.
3. (and this is the killer) If you confiscate the drugs off the child, you can be charged with possession!
..or is this just insane.
We were given a talk today, on the legalities of how to deal (sic) with children you suspect of possessing drugs in school:
1. It is illegal to search a child.
2. It is illegal to search the bag of a child.
3. (and this is the killer) If you confiscate the drugs off the child, you can be charged with possession!
Worked with kindergarten and preschool kids so thankfully never had to deal with those sort of things, but who knows, maybe future generations will start early
Aug 3rd 2011, 1:35 am
#10
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Joined: Jul 2010
Location: Queensland, Australia
Posts: 1,010
Re: Is it just me.....
Hi all, posted this on the Oz forum, but I know you lot better so value your input:
..or is this just insane.
We were given a talk today, on the legalities of how to deal (sic) with children you suspect of possessing drugs in school:
1. It is illegal to search a child.
2. It is illegal to search the bag of a child.
3. (and this is the killer) If you confiscate the drugs off the child, you can be charged with possession!
..or is this just insane.
We were given a talk today, on the legalities of how to deal (sic) with children you suspect of possessing drugs in school:
1. It is illegal to search a child.
2. It is illegal to search the bag of a child.
3. (and this is the killer) If you confiscate the drugs off the child, you can be charged with possession!
Searches
If you freely agree to a teacher searching either you or your bag it will be lawful. So you must say if you don't agree
If you don't freely agree to the search, and the search seems unreasonable (e.g. teacher doesn't have good reason to think you have the item) it may be unlawful
Teachers can't search whole classes without each student's consent. if you do not agree and you think the search of yourself seems unreasonable, it may be unlawful
Teachers can't use physical force to search you or your bag
The police can search you for drugs at school even if you don't agree to it but they must either arrest you, have a search warrant or have reasonable grounds to believe you are carrying drugs, OR that these are on the school grounds
(s21 NZ Bill of Rights At 1990; s72 & 139A Education Act 1989; s18 Misuse of Drugs Act 1975; ss60 & 61 Arms Act 1983; s202B Crimes Act 1961; Common Law)
Confiscations
Teachers can confiscate items that disturb the class or are against school rules
If the item is not returned within a reasonable time ask the Dean or Principal for its return
Teachers should take care of the item until they give it back, though they may give weapons or drugs to the police
(ss20 & 21 Arms Act 1983; s7 Misuse of Drugs Act 1975; Common Law Principles; s72 Education Act 1989)
http://www.webhealth.co.nz/articles/...hts-at-school/
Aug 3rd 2011, 1:38 am
#11
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Joined: Jul 2010
Location: Queensland, Australia
Posts: 1,010
Re: Is it just me.....
Five 9-year-old boys have been caught doing drugs at school during lunchtime.
The Owhata Primary School students were stood down after being caught "taking puffs" of a joint and have since been given drug education.
The incident is described by city principals as unusual because the children are so young and happened at a primary school.
Owhata Primary officials say the matter was dealt with and they doubt it marks the start of an alarming trend.
The Owhata Primary School students were stood down after being caught "taking puffs" of a joint and have since been given drug education.
The incident is described by city principals as unusual because the children are so young and happened at a primary school.
Owhata Primary officials say the matter was dealt with and they doubt it marks the start of an alarming trend.
Last edited by Expat Kiwi; Aug 3rd 2011 at 1:40 am.
Aug 3rd 2011, 8:00 am
#12
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 269
Re: Is it just me.....
Here's the defnition, from a childrens' rights viewpoint.
Searches
If you freely agree to a teacher searching either you or your bag it will be lawful. So you must say if you don't agree
If you don't freely agree to the search, and the search seems unreasonable (e.g. teacher doesn't have good reason to think you have the item) it may be unlawful
Teachers can't search whole classes without each student's consent. if you do not agree and you think the search of yourself seems unreasonable, it may be unlawful
Teachers can't use physical force to search you or your bag
The police can search you for drugs at school even if you don't agree to it but they must either arrest you, have a search warrant or have reasonable grounds to believe you are carrying drugs, OR that these are on the school grounds
(s21 NZ Bill of Rights At 1990; s72 & 139A Education Act 1989; s18 Misuse of Drugs Act 1975; ss60 & 61 Arms Act 1983; s202B Crimes Act 1961; Common Law)
Confiscations
Teachers can confiscate items that disturb the class or are against school rules
If the item is not returned within a reasonable time ask the Dean or Principal for its return
Teachers should take care of the item until they give it back, though they may give weapons or drugs to the police
(ss20 & 21 Arms Act 1983; s7 Misuse of Drugs Act 1975; Common Law Principles; s72 Education Act 1989)
http://www.webhealth.co.nz/articles/...hts-at-school/
Searches
If you freely agree to a teacher searching either you or your bag it will be lawful. So you must say if you don't agree
If you don't freely agree to the search, and the search seems unreasonable (e.g. teacher doesn't have good reason to think you have the item) it may be unlawful
Teachers can't search whole classes without each student's consent. if you do not agree and you think the search of yourself seems unreasonable, it may be unlawful
Teachers can't use physical force to search you or your bag
The police can search you for drugs at school even if you don't agree to it but they must either arrest you, have a search warrant or have reasonable grounds to believe you are carrying drugs, OR that these are on the school grounds
(s21 NZ Bill of Rights At 1990; s72 & 139A Education Act 1989; s18 Misuse of Drugs Act 1975; ss60 & 61 Arms Act 1983; s202B Crimes Act 1961; Common Law)
Confiscations
Teachers can confiscate items that disturb the class or are against school rules
If the item is not returned within a reasonable time ask the Dean or Principal for its return
Teachers should take care of the item until they give it back, though they may give weapons or drugs to the police
(ss20 & 21 Arms Act 1983; s7 Misuse of Drugs Act 1975; Common Law Principles; s72 Education Act 1989)
http://www.webhealth.co.nz/articles/...hts-at-school/
Aug 3rd 2011, 8:13 am
#13
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 269
Re: Is it just me.....
Yes and no.
For example a lot of amphetamines where available OTC form the 1920's onwards thanks to advance in chemical synthesis, in fact they where prescribed for all sorts of things from students struggling to study to soldiers at war. With changes in law in the 50's it went underground. Of course amphetamines in natural forms derived from plants, and often consumed as teas, had been used for more than 3000 years across China, India and the middle east.
Cocaine is relatively new to our society at just 150 years old (the crystallised form even newer) but use pre-dates this in South America...actually it's use pre-dates European arrival so probably thousands of years as well. Of course the freebased forms that made them more bio-available (crack cocaine) only came along in the 1980's.
The effects of LSD date back to antiquity (ergot poisoning) but it wasn't formally synthesised until the 1940's. Its effects seem to have been widely explored by the U.S. army but only in the 60's was it banned amongst people who where realising the interesting effects.
Opium used dates back at least 4000 years in Europe and was popular even in the U.S. since the 1850's when the Chinese came to escape famine and built railroads. Of course Heroin didn't catch on as a recreational drug until the 1950's.
Ecstasy was only purified in the 1920's but natural sources and similar compounds have been used for thousands of years.
Khat, Marajuana, Alcohol and Tobacco have been in use for most of human history.
So society's have been using drugs since time began, new derivatives are more addictive (particularly heroin, cocaine and meth amphetamine), but use has been widespread throughout history.
So...umm...drugs are bad mmm'kay?
For example a lot of amphetamines where available OTC form the 1920's onwards thanks to advance in chemical synthesis, in fact they where prescribed for all sorts of things from students struggling to study to soldiers at war. With changes in law in the 50's it went underground. Of course amphetamines in natural forms derived from plants, and often consumed as teas, had been used for more than 3000 years across China, India and the middle east.
Cocaine is relatively new to our society at just 150 years old (the crystallised form even newer) but use pre-dates this in South America...actually it's use pre-dates European arrival so probably thousands of years as well. Of course the freebased forms that made them more bio-available (crack cocaine) only came along in the 1980's.
The effects of LSD date back to antiquity (ergot poisoning) but it wasn't formally synthesised until the 1940's. Its effects seem to have been widely explored by the U.S. army but only in the 60's was it banned amongst people who where realising the interesting effects.
Opium used dates back at least 4000 years in Europe and was popular even in the U.S. since the 1850's when the Chinese came to escape famine and built railroads. Of course Heroin didn't catch on as a recreational drug until the 1950's.
Ecstasy was only purified in the 1920's but natural sources and similar compounds have been used for thousands of years.
Khat, Marajuana, Alcohol and Tobacco have been in use for most of human history.
So society's have been using drugs since time began, new derivatives are more addictive (particularly heroin, cocaine and meth amphetamine), but use has been widespread throughout history.
So...umm...drugs are bad mmm'kay?
Aug 3rd 2011, 8:46 am
#14
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Joined: Jun 2005
Location: In a large village called Auckland
Posts: 5,249
Re: Is it just me.....
I do recall being made to watch some horrific schools program in Social Studies about heroin and drug addicts; I remember it terrified the life out of me and I decided there and then that I would never go there. At that time though it just seemed so out of our league and was something for rock stars.
Aug 3rd 2011, 9:47 am
#15
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Posts: 269
Re: Is it just me.....
Certainly there were none that I was aware of during my time at school, never even heard of anyone doing anything more dangerous than ten No.6 and a bottle of Lambrusco. However, later in life I did find out a couple of people I knew at school were into glue sniffing in a big way and smoking pot was more popular than I had ever imagined. I think though it's often a case of it takes one, to know one. You're either in those circles that do or you are not. If you're not, then I am sure the whole thing can completely pass you by. i.e. I don't know of and have never seen anyone smoking weed socially here in NZ, although many talk about it as if they do.
I do recall being made to watch some horrific schools program in Social Studies about heroin and drug addicts; I remember it terrified the life out of me and I decided there and then that I would never go there. At that time though it just seemed so out of our league and was something for rock stars.
I do recall being made to watch some horrific schools program in Social Studies about heroin and drug addicts; I remember it terrified the life out of me and I decided there and then that I would never go there. At that time though it just seemed so out of our league and was something for rock stars.