Just been accused of being "culturally insensitive"!
Jun 16th 2011, 12:21 pm
#166
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Re: Just been accused of being "culturally insensitive"!
I disagree, sometimes you need to call a spade a spade. I don't 'forget' anything - I actually find your assumption pretty insulting. I'm just really tired of the "oh xyz <insert name of terrible event> happened so what the hell are the Maori complaining about" bs.
The Uk hasn't been invaded in any real sense for about 1000 years, hence any attempt to claim that British people know what it's like to be colonized is laughable in my eyes. As in, hahahahaha. I'm pretty sure I have a mix of all England's invaders in my veins, but do I remember anything from 1066? Nope. No one here can honestly say they, their grandparents or grandparents grandparents have experienced that...unless of course they were from a country that was colonized recently, like NZ.
And happily it's 2011 not 1011, so we all understand we can learn from the past, right?
The Uk hasn't been invaded in any real sense for about 1000 years, hence any attempt to claim that British people know what it's like to be colonized is laughable in my eyes. As in, hahahahaha. I'm pretty sure I have a mix of all England's invaders in my veins, but do I remember anything from 1066? Nope. No one here can honestly say they, their grandparents or grandparents grandparents have experienced that...unless of course they were from a country that was colonized recently, like NZ.
And happily it's 2011 not 1011, so we all understand we can learn from the past, right?
NZ hasnt been colonised whilst anyone alive was around to remember it so for all intents and purposes it may as well have also been 1000 years ago.
When I was studying, a Maori woman ran for student body president. She started rabbiting on about how she had post traumatic stress syndrome from colonisation (she would only be about 40 now)...WTF? Needless to say some investigation was done by a very curious student and it just turned out she was a racist who was hoping to get the presidency and then make sure all the maori students got everything. In the end, noone voted for her though she did start out quite strongly preaching equal rights LOL
Anyhoo, off on a tangent, but your comments kinda reminded me of her claiing PTSD, what a load of rubbish
Jun 16th 2011, 11:53 pm
#167
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Re: Just been accused of being "culturally insensitive"!
You've a chip on your shoulder a mile wide there.
You may be part Maori, but you clearly don't identify as Maori ("as far as I am concerned am a whitey") but even if you did your opinions don't have more weight by virtue of you being part Maori. You've misunderstood why it matters to "some twatty Euros" ... it's not about seeming cool and it's not about doing Maoris a favour, it's because for some people it really matters how equitable the society we live in is. It doesn't matter how long I've been here or what my heritage is; I have just as much right as the next person to care whether *MY* society is equitable, progressive and harmonious.
You've no more right to refer to Maori culture and customs you don't identify with as "some rubbish Maori crap" than anyone else.
You may be part Maori, but you clearly don't identify as Maori ("as far as I am concerned am a whitey") but even if you did your opinions don't have more weight by virtue of you being part Maori. You've misunderstood why it matters to "some twatty Euros" ... it's not about seeming cool and it's not about doing Maoris a favour, it's because for some people it really matters how equitable the society we live in is. It doesn't matter how long I've been here or what my heritage is; I have just as much right as the next person to care whether *MY* society is equitable, progressive and harmonious.
You've no more right to refer to Maori culture and customs you don't identify with as "some rubbish Maori crap" than anyone else.
I have only read the first page of responses because I am part maori, and therefore lazy (its genetic I swear)
LIke others have said, putting aside some rubbish maori crap about it being bad to sit on tables, shouldnt you be teaching your 20 month old daughter not to site on tables? In fact, shouldnt she already know?
Agree in that some euro looking people identify as Maori.
However, will also point out that some twatty euros also like to preach maori stuff because they think it makes them look all culturally sensitive and cool or something.
For the record, I am part Maori, I look white and as far as I am concerned am a whitey.
LIke others have said, putting aside some rubbish maori crap about it being bad to sit on tables, shouldnt you be teaching your 20 month old daughter not to site on tables? In fact, shouldnt she already know?
Agree in that some euro looking people identify as Maori.
However, will also point out that some twatty euros also like to preach maori stuff because they think it makes them look all culturally sensitive and cool or something.
For the record, I am part Maori, I look white and as far as I am concerned am a whitey.
Jun 17th 2011, 12:39 am
#168
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Re: Just been accused of being "culturally insensitive"!
Given that Maori culture is quite an oral tradition where stories are passed from generation to generation I'd have thought that even though the people who were here at the time of colonisation are no longer alive, it is still recent enough to affect some groups of people today.
Particularly as it's not just about the initial colonisation but the years of politics etc (land wars, lack of access to healthcare, not having a vote etc).
Jun 17th 2011, 1:43 am
#169
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Re: Just been accused of being "culturally insensitive"!
I recently heard on talk back radio a Maori "academic", proclaiming colonisation was to blame for the high numbers of Maori children, being beaten (some with tragic consequences as we all know).
The argument, was that pre colonisation, children were regarded as scared and never would have been physically disciplined, in order to preserve the child's spirit.
The along came the British and in particular the missionaries, who preached the whole corporal punishment way of bring up children.
So there you are, colonisation is the cause of all those kids being bashed to death. Nothing to do with crap parents, drugs, alcohol, blah blah.
It is utterly ridiculous of course, but unfortunately there are going to certain segments of society that will blame history for all their ills, rather than themselves.
The argument, was that pre colonisation, children were regarded as scared and never would have been physically disciplined, in order to preserve the child's spirit.
The along came the British and in particular the missionaries, who preached the whole corporal punishment way of bring up children.
So there you are, colonisation is the cause of all those kids being bashed to death. Nothing to do with crap parents, drugs, alcohol, blah blah.
It is utterly ridiculous of course, but unfortunately there are going to certain segments of society that will blame history for all their ills, rather than themselves.
Jun 17th 2011, 3:18 am
#170
---
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,994
Re: Just been accused of being "culturally insensitive"!
Bleurgh, bet you were seething. What a croc of shite.
I recently heard on talk back radio a Maori "academic", proclaiming colonisation was to blame for the high numbers of Maori children, being beaten (some with tragic consequences as we all know).
The argument, was that pre colonisation, children were regarded as scared and never would have been physically disciplined, in order to preserve the child's spirit.
The along came the British and in particular the missionaries, who preached the whole corporal punishment way of bring up children.
So there you are, colonisation is the cause of all those kids being bashed to death. Nothing to do with crap parents, drugs, alcohol, blah blah.
It is utterly ridiculous of course, but unfortunately there are going to certain segments of society that will blame history for all their ills, rather than themselves.
The argument, was that pre colonisation, children were regarded as scared and never would have been physically disciplined, in order to preserve the child's spirit.
The along came the British and in particular the missionaries, who preached the whole corporal punishment way of bring up children.
So there you are, colonisation is the cause of all those kids being bashed to death. Nothing to do with crap parents, drugs, alcohol, blah blah.
It is utterly ridiculous of course, but unfortunately there are going to certain segments of society that will blame history for all their ills, rather than themselves.
Jun 17th 2011, 3:41 am
#171
Banned
Joined: Jul 2010
Location: Queensland, Australia
Posts: 1,010
Re: Just been accused of being "culturally insensitive"!
because for some people it really matters how equitable the society we live in is. It doesn't matter how long I've been here or what my heritage is; I have just as much right as the next person to care whether *MY* society is equitable, progressive and harmonious.
Jun 18th 2011, 2:06 am
#173
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Re: Just been accused of being "culturally insensitive"!
I think the word you left out there was alleged illegal immigrants and overstayers.
This is the first time I've heard of what amounted to a form of ethnic cleansing as "progressive," I wouldn't care to hear what you think Bastion Point was.
The Dawn Raids was one of the darker, more shameful acts of the Muldoon government, who were happy to have Pacific Islanders provide cheap labour until the formation of the European market effectively shut out New Zealand from trade with Britain.
It lead to the formation of the Polynesian Panthers movement
Link to a documentary about the movement
http://www.ecasttv.co.nz/shop/public...me.php?id=6185
This is the first time I've heard of what amounted to a form of ethnic cleansing as "progressive," I wouldn't care to hear what you think Bastion Point was.
The Dawn Raids was one of the darker, more shameful acts of the Muldoon government, who were happy to have Pacific Islanders provide cheap labour until the formation of the European market effectively shut out New Zealand from trade with Britain.
It lead to the formation of the Polynesian Panthers movement
Link to a documentary about the movement
http://www.ecasttv.co.nz/shop/public...me.php?id=6185
Jun 18th 2011, 2:18 am
#174
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Location: Queensland, Australia
Posts: 1,010
Re: Just been accused of being "culturally insensitive"!
Jun 18th 2011, 10:46 pm
#175
slanderer of the innocent
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 6,695
Re: Just been accused of being "culturally insensitive"!
Interesting about Bastion point. I'm too young to remember that, it's good to learn some more about NZ history.
Jun 18th 2011, 11:02 pm
#176
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Joined: Dec 2008
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Re: Just been accused of being "culturally insensitive"!
You've a chip on your shoulder a mile wide there.
You may be part Maori, but you clearly don't identify as Maori ("as far as I am concerned am a whitey") but even if you did your opinions don't have more weight by virtue of you being part Maori. You've misunderstood why it matters to "some twatty Euros" ... it's not about seeming cool and it's not about doing Maoris a favour, it's because for some people it really matters how equitable the society we live in is. It doesn't matter how long I've been here or what my heritage is; I have just as much right as the next person to care whether *MY* society is equitable, progressive and harmonious.
You've no more right to refer to Maori culture and customs you don't identify with as "some rubbish Maori crap" than anyone else.
You may be part Maori, but you clearly don't identify as Maori ("as far as I am concerned am a whitey") but even if you did your opinions don't have more weight by virtue of you being part Maori. You've misunderstood why it matters to "some twatty Euros" ... it's not about seeming cool and it's not about doing Maoris a favour, it's because for some people it really matters how equitable the society we live in is. It doesn't matter how long I've been here or what my heritage is; I have just as much right as the next person to care whether *MY* society is equitable, progressive and harmonious.
You've no more right to refer to Maori culture and customs you don't identify with as "some rubbish Maori crap" than anyone else.
I think it's hilarious that he/she thinks it's about seeming cool..I really could not give a rat's arse how I 'seem'. haha. Mostly my feelings/observations come from having travelled and seeing for myself how colonization has effected different people. It's not just the Maori who have been badly affected by colonization. There's still a long way to go in Canada too.
One of the things that makes me sad/frustrated about this issue is the black & white thinking (
) that it seems to arouse in people: as in, They should all get over it and move on it's in the past vs We've been damaged by colonization irrevocably and it's all the colonizer's fault. Obviously it's not that black and white. There's a lot of grey. There's been a LOT of intermarriage between Maori and pakeha since colonization so there's a lot of people who have both POVs to contend with within their own families. I feel sad for anyone who feels they need to denigrate one side of their history (by calling half of it 'rubbish') or the other. I've certainly met Maori who both look very pakeha and totally denigrate the pakeha side of their culture and only identify with the Maori so it works both ways. That's not healthy because both sides have made them who they are, whether they care to admit it or not. While I'm pretty much European (as far as I know) I have Maori family as well. So I guess I'm saying...it should okay to feel ambivalent about the past in NZ, to be pissed off about colonization while respecting some of the positive things it brought (like democracy, rule of law, an international language) and at the same time recognise how Maori culture has influenced pakeha etc. It should be possible to allow all of these things in, because all of these things are part of what makes NZ, NZ. Personally I think it makes the country richer! But shit stirrers like Catchafire's Maori academic force the issue back into a black and white box again ("Maori all good, pakeha all bad") and it's totally unhelpful imo and it just puts everyone's back up again.When I say "don't run away from it, face it" that's all I mean. I'm sorry if I came across as preachy or seem to be telling brit expats they should feel guilty...I actually don't mean that at all. Guilt is a useless emotion in this case because obviously none of us personally colonized NZ. I just really believe we,you, us as people will make better decisions about our country if we recognize the bad parts of our history as well as the good. That goes for you too Maori academic, wherever you are.
Last edited by ExKiwilass; Jun 18th 2011 at 11:21 pm.
Jun 19th 2011, 6:33 am
#177
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Posts: 696
Re: Just been accused of being "culturally insensitive"!
Nice post. After all, a strong part of Western culture has always been concerned with justice, and that's what this is about too -justice.
I think it's hilarious that he/she thinks it's about seeming cool..I really could not give a rat's arse how I 'seem'. haha. Mostly my feelings/observations come from having travelled and seeing for myself how colonization has effected different people. It's not just the Maori who have been badly affected by colonization. There's still a long way to go in Canada too.
One of the things that makes me sad/frustrated about this issue is the black & white thinking ( ) that it seems to arouse in people: as in, They should all get over it and move on it's in the past vs We've been damaged by colonization irrevocably and it's all the colonizer's fault. Obviously it's not that black and white. There's a lot of grey. There's been a LOT of intermarriage between Maori and pakeha since colonization so there's a lot of people who have both POVs to contend with within their own families. I feel sad for anyone who feels they need to denigrate one side of their history (by calling half of it 'rubbish') or the other. I've certainly met Maori who both look very pakeha and totally denigrate the pakeha side of their culture and only identify with the Maori so it works both ways. That's not healthy because both sides have made them who they are, whether they care to admit it or not. While I'm pretty much European (as far as I know) I have Maori family as well. So I guess I'm saying...it should okay to feel ambivalent about the past in NZ, to be pissed off about colonization while respecting some of the positive things it brought (like democracy, rule of law, an international language) and at the same time recognise how Maori culture has influenced pakeha etc. It should be possible to allow all of these things in, because all of these things are part of what makes NZ, NZ. Personally I think it makes the country richer! But shit stirrers like Catchafire's Maori academic force the issue back into a black and white box again ("Maori all good, pakeha all bad") and it's totally unhelpful imo and it just puts everyone's back up again.
When I say "don't run away from it, face it" that's all I mean. I'm sorry if I came across as preachy or seem to be telling brit expats they should feel guilty...I actually don't mean that at all. Guilt is a useless emotion in this case because obviously none of us personally colonized NZ. I just really believe we,you, us as people will make better decisions about our country if we recognize the bad parts of our history as well as the good. That goes for you too Maori academic, wherever you are.
I think it's hilarious that he/she thinks it's about seeming cool..I really could not give a rat's arse how I 'seem'. haha. Mostly my feelings/observations come from having travelled and seeing for myself how colonization has effected different people. It's not just the Maori who have been badly affected by colonization. There's still a long way to go in Canada too.
One of the things that makes me sad/frustrated about this issue is the black & white thinking (
) that it seems to arouse in people: as in, They should all get over it and move on it's in the past vs We've been damaged by colonization irrevocably and it's all the colonizer's fault. Obviously it's not that black and white. There's a lot of grey. There's been a LOT of intermarriage between Maori and pakeha since colonization so there's a lot of people who have both POVs to contend with within their own families. I feel sad for anyone who feels they need to denigrate one side of their history (by calling half of it 'rubbish') or the other. I've certainly met Maori who both look very pakeha and totally denigrate the pakeha side of their culture and only identify with the Maori so it works both ways. That's not healthy because both sides have made them who they are, whether they care to admit it or not. While I'm pretty much European (as far as I know) I have Maori family as well. So I guess I'm saying...it should okay to feel ambivalent about the past in NZ, to be pissed off about colonization while respecting some of the positive things it brought (like democracy, rule of law, an international language) and at the same time recognise how Maori culture has influenced pakeha etc. It should be possible to allow all of these things in, because all of these things are part of what makes NZ, NZ. Personally I think it makes the country richer! But shit stirrers like Catchafire's Maori academic force the issue back into a black and white box again ("Maori all good, pakeha all bad") and it's totally unhelpful imo and it just puts everyone's back up again.When I say "don't run away from it, face it" that's all I mean. I'm sorry if I came across as preachy or seem to be telling brit expats they should feel guilty...I actually don't mean that at all. Guilt is a useless emotion in this case because obviously none of us personally colonized NZ. I just really believe we,you, us as people will make better decisions about our country if we recognize the bad parts of our history as well as the good. That goes for you too Maori academic, wherever you are.
Jun 19th 2011, 3:51 pm
#178
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Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 6,695
Re: Just been accused of being "culturally insensitive"!
thanks d. 
