How PC is N Zee
 

Just wondering how politically correct New Zealand is? I do think there is a place for it in society in small doses, but feel that it is out of control in the UK.
I'm am interested in your thoughts, observations and experiences
Lorraine

Re: How PC is N Zee
 

I would say it's getting there in terms of what is and is not considered socially acceptable. However, I was and still am suprised and saddened by the racism that seems to exist. There is quite a bit of anti-Maori from some Pakeha which I guess they have grown up with so see nothing wrong with. And also I have come across attitude towards Asians and Indians that I find unacceptable in today's society.

With regards to NZ being a "Nanny State" as I perceived the UK to be turning in to, I would say not at the moment. The kids still play in the playground and roam relatively free amongst the play equipment etc which I think is a good thing on the whole.:thumbsup:

Just my opinion ...

Re: How PC is N Zee
 

My dad, who is a born and bred kiwi, is always moaning about the PC brigade and encroaching health and safety zealots. Probably says more about him than how things are in NZ though :p Wouldn't say he is racist though. You get that here as well I think.

Re: How PC is N Zee
 

Absolutely agree that you get it in the UK and have for decades. Apologies if my post made it sound like I think ALL Kiwis are racist - I didn't mean that. Just some. Some is too many.:(

Re: How PC is N Zee
 

Gland you said that as a college at work last week was quite racist towards me in front of other staff:curse: but fair play a few of them went to the boss, he pull me and I did the Brit Thing :thumbsup:OVER THE HEAD:p so I can say also not All Kiwis are racist.

Re: How PC is N Zee
 

Its bloody marvellous. The main news refers to police vans as 'paddy wagons' (I am half irish and not offended) adverts offering prizes on the radio talk of conditons applying and also that 'legal bollocks apply'....how bloody marvellous is that!! Obviously there is an element of PC here and there and some factions are well known for it...but none of the old bollocks I suffered as a plod circa 1994-2005. I like calling a spade a spade and like calling women girls without fear of reprimand...enter PC Met madness. Being non PC does not mean you are racist or sexist. It just means that you can call Christmas Christmas, a black bin liner just that and you can say that we will all sing from the same hymn sheet. All the latter are banned so I understand in wonderous PC UK. Mind you Welly did chop down a big fir tree that was decorated come xmas time lest it offended muslims at said 'winter festival', and Palmy council loonies agreed that a cross atop our clock tower was a bit 'in your face' when the local muslim group raised eyebrows at said adornment. So we are to a lesser degree still a bit mental in the world of PC shite.

Re: How PC is N Zee
 

Not PC enough for my liking. I think PCness returns the pendulum swing. Obviously the sort of application Genesis mentions are nutty (although not the cross one imo, not because it might offend muslims but because I think faith should be a private matter), but then I would (and do) take offence at being called a 'girl'. It's disrespectful and derogatory- how would you like to be called a 'boy' Genesis? I think NZ needs to adopt a more PC culture because some of the things you hear on the radio etc are just totally unacceptable, also in the workplace and so on- mostly directed at Maori, pacific islanders etc but also at women. However, I do love the patriotism of NZ and Australia- it's sad that patriotic has become such a dirty word in the UK- kids oin this side of the world grow up to feel they live somewhere really awesome and are proud of being a Kiwi or Aussie. I don't think UK kids get that- unless it's all for the wrong reasons (thinking BNP style patriotism here, which NZ and Oz style is nothing like).

OTOH, the lack of nanny state with regards to children, schooling etc is awesome and a HUGE plus for NZ. Just across the ditch you lose that quintessentially Kiwi approach to child rearing and schooling and I miss it terribly. I love that the schools are played in by the kids out of school hours (even the pools swum in where I was), that kids are encouraged to take risks, to take leadership roles (genuine ones) etc. NZ is very good for kids, imo.

Re: How PC is N Zee
 

My mum reckons that society all started to fall apart with feminism -hold on, hear her out! She said that in the old days men were men blah blah and that everyone knew where they were. It wasn't expected of a woman to go out to work, people held doors open for them and they were treated with a degree of 'you can't do that to a woman' type of attitude, girls weren't expected to sleep with boys. I've taken the P out of her for years, but with age I sorta get where she's coming from in some respects.

Ref racism, Whilst I look back in horror at Rigsby in Rising Damp, the funny thing was that it was obvious he was a complete uneducated, unsophisticated arse and it was the black guy who was so funny because he just stood back, laughed at him and took the p. It's easy to get lost in the whole racist issue in comedy, but in so much of this type of humour, the laugh is on the racist and not the other way around. I do think that a lot of our problems are caused by perceived racism, rather than actual racism. An example being the old 'beds in hospitals being turned around to face Mecca' malarky. When interviewed, the leader of the local Mosque said he was fed up with this type of hyped up nonsense being made an issue of by the media and that it actually hadn't happened that way at all. He said that the media was breeding a lot of racism by putting words in their mouths and that it was incredibly unhelpful for their integration into the community. I do however remember the dark days of the names that black people in our area used to be given, and we can't go back to that, but there has to be sensible level of acceptance.

Just a few bits of opinion into the mix.

Re: How PC is N Zee
 

I think it is important to teach children the importance of religious acceptance and of being PC whatever PC does actually mean, political correctness has very little to do with politics and more to do with journalists having the need to report on stories they think people will be interested in.

There is cerntainly more acceptance of people in New Zealand last month I was in England and that was certainly an eye opener, the people that bang on about the perceived immigrant problem. Now if you weren't born in England does that automatically mean you are below someone who was born in England regardless of your circumstances.

Just my opinion and I find it hard to listen to being I was not born in England but spent my whole life there I consider myself English and also being an immigrant in NZ.

Re: How PC is N Zee
 

how would you like to be called a 'boy' Genesis?



No problems with that at all. But then I am rather irreverent with respect to things like that.

Re: How PC is N Zee
 

Boy? Bring it on!
I was drinking with the son of our local tribe's chief on Waitangi day, and my insistence that he sign his seat in the pub over to me was greeted with a handshake and a beer each.
PC, no, we don't need it to any degree. If you're offended, tell them, then accept the abuse and "HTFU" that will follow.
Still upset, go somewhere else.
Just my two centsworth.
Steve.

Re: How PC is N Zee
 

[QUOTE=hazeandsteve;7273451]Boy? Bring it on!



For me at 50 its a compliment..however I would not mind being called boy at ANY juncture in my life. I don't do PC either anymore..its a load of bollocks (in my humble opinion). I am polite and kind I believe. Do unto others etc, but I am half french and half eire..don't mind the froggy, paddy or brit/pom moniker!! Sticks and stones. However I do find paki and the such offensive..I guess its because my frame of reference is that knuckle scraping white trash (in the main) use such terminology and I hate racism and the small minded aforementioned. Hate someone for a good reason..not their colour, creed or nationality!!

Re: How PC is N Zee
 

mmm, a contradiction don't ya think?

So you don't like paki? me neither....I also find it offensive to hear maoris call islanders niggers quite openly...

I find the race relations here appalling:curse:

And I suppose you could call Charles and Harry 'white trash':cool:

Re: How PC is N Zee
 

I guess it is a contradiction and I am sure many an Irish person and many a French are offended by frog and paddy whereas I am not.

I reckon we all have our own personal limits of what is acceptable and what is not. I too find nigger very offensive. I guess it is all about how we conceive said 'nick names'. Paki and nigger for my part are words uttered (in my limited experience) by white supremacist types of morons..thus I have a VERY negative association with these terms.

Re: How PC is N Zee
 

I have never heard ANYONE use that word in NZ. Maybe it depends on who you associate with.

Re: How PC is N Zee
 

I work in manufacturing with ordinary blue collar kiwis.
They are racist but its not in a nasty way, the maoris get some stick but (ducks for cover at this point)
that is because they are huge problem and generally cause a lot of the problems (drugs, unemployment, child abuse, domestic violence,car crime. . etc)
Over here you can call a spade a spade and its ok.
This will change as more and more "middle managers" and do gooders come over from the uk.
They seem intent on changing nz into a little britain which it most certainly is not and is much better for it.

I AM NOT SAYING ALL MAORIS ARE TROUBLE MAKERS , DRUGGIES, ALCOHOLICS AND WIFE BEATERS.
SOME ARE VERY NICE OTHERS ARE NOT.

Re: How PC is N Zee
 

Not banned in my part of the UK and I work in a school which is pretty pc. Had a carol concert and 3 Christmas trees in our school this year. That is Daily Mail scare mongering. I would however draw the line at being called a girl and most of my friends feel the same way. It's not PC we just feel it is demeaning to call a 40 year old woman a girl.

My mum who is head teacher of school in NZ says the Maori/Islander kids will call each other black as an insult. Don't know about the word nigger. When my parents come over to the UK and hear someone described as black on the news they shudder in shock!

Re: How PC is N Zee
 

We can't be too PC Lorrielou. Most of us have had golliwog dolls as kids. ;)


Link to entire article HERE

Re: How PC is N Zee
 

And you live in....Cambridge:thumbsup: But I guess thats where the similarities end:cool:

I don't tend to socialize with these people but through my work our paths cross and I must say it's a pretty unpleasant experience:unsure:

Oh and I love the bit about "They are racist but its not in a nasty way"

God, this place is backward

Re: How PC is N Zee
 

Go & spend a day in a fruit packing warehouse, you won't believe your ears!!!

Re: How PC is N Zee
 

My dd made a golliwog at her primary and then wrote a speech on why they're considered unacceptable in the UK- her teachers were surprised :blink:

Re: How PC is N Zee
 

Sooo true. I used to love and cherish mine.


This is true of many of my friends also. However, I like it as it makes me feel young again - woman sounds so erm old to me!


Coming from the the West Country (Bristol) I was called a s@~t kicker at a place I worked at (better than a s@~t stirrer I guess!) and it didn't bother me in the slightest. I think as much as anything it's about the context it is used in, ie in jest or intended as an insult. Provided no offence is taken I don't think there is a problem.

Re: How PC is N Zee
 

A recall my next door neighbour, a retired teacher, referring to a West Indian as a 'darkie', which I found objectionable but realised there was no malice there, just a result of her age and upbringing.Other genteel ladies referred to blacks as 'coloured', because they found the word 'black' derogatory.
I know many of my Indian and Pakistani students objected to being called black, yet some did in fact request that they be 'grouped with their black Afro Brothers'.

It is difficult to encompass the world with six groups but the Metropolitan Police assign "white-skinned European types - English, Scottish, Welsh, Scandinavian and Russian" to IC1;
"dark-skinned European types - Sardinian, Spanish, Italian" to IC2;
"Negroid types - Caribbean, West Indian, African, Nigerian" to IC3;
Indians and Pakistanis to IC4;
"Chinese, Japanese, Mongolians, Siamese" to IC5;
and "Arabians, Egyptians, Algerians, Moroccans and North Africans" to IC6.

IC1 White - North European
IC2 White - South European
IC3 Black
IC4 Asian
IC5 Chinese, Japanese or any other South East Asian
IC6 Arabic or North African

So now we can all see where we belong-
(The Austronesians include today's Polynesian, Micronesian, Melanesian, and the indigenous people in Philippines, in the Southeast Asia archipelago, and in Taiwan.)
ABORIGINAL Australians are descended from the same small group of people who left Africa about 70,000 years ago and colonised the rest of the world, a large genetic study shows.
Pacific Islanders, or the Maori perhaps will be boxed in IC5 ...any other South East Asian!
Still now we know exactly which little pathetic box someone will put us in!

The world is just one great big onion! And hate and fear are the spices That make you cry!

Re: How PC is N Zee
 

:thumbup: Love that!

On the girl vs wimmin thing - I'd rather be called a girl any day and the older I get the more I like to be called it :thumbsup:

Re: How PC is N Zee
 

oh me too!
trouble is its usually octogenarians with a twinkle in their eye that would be likely to call me that. I really don't mind. As long as they keep their white stick to themselves.

Could never understand those women who felt insulted when a man offered them a seat or held a door open. I was flattered.
Sad I know!
Much preferred being a girl/young woman in the 50/60s.
Often look at the loutish behavior of the drunken laddites, the lack of respect shown them by their male counterparts and the lack of respect they have for themselves- is this what women's rights was aiming for - Equality in the gutter?
Women can now command equal pay and apply for the same job/positions as men- but at what price?
Sad really!

Women of my generation were treated not as inferior beings but were shown respect. Men were 'strong and protective' women acted feminine and demure and got just what they wanted!
A lot of men today have been emasculated by the aggressive attitudes of a lot of women .
Sad really!
I know there were a lot of injustices towards women both in the home and the work place, but there were towards men also and those injustices still remain- just in different forms.
I'd hate to be young in todays modern society.
Sad really!

Re: How PC is N Zee
 

I'm not sure I would want to be a woman in the 50's. The only job my mother was allowed to do was be a teacher because there weren't any other opportunities for women, except nursing, and decent girls didn't do that. Of course is was assumed she would give it up to have kids, which she did and so began 11 years of misery until she was able to escape back into the workforce. If a life being provided for and protected by a man suited you that would be fine, but many women find it difficult coping with the mind numbing tedium. Women still have to learn to live the life they want, and not the life other people think they should have. It will come in time. I work with teenagers and it is exciting to see these wonderful girls achieving so much and with such an exciting future ahead of them.

By the way, women don't get equal pay yet.

Re: How PC is N Zee
 

[QUOTE=Genesis;7273478]:thumbsup:

Why is it I ramble and you say everything I want to so succinctly?
Age.;)

Re: How PC is N Zee
 

Top post :thumbup: I think at current speed we should expect equal pay sometime next century :blink:

Re: How PC is N Zee
 

Sorry but there were opportunities of careers in other fields besides teaching and nursing. That's the old cherry dragged out by many who went into those two callings at that time. If I remember correctly neither were a graduate profession in those days, but many girls did go to university in the late 50s and early 60's. Others went into more interesting careers for women.
assumed she would give it up to have kids
Some preferred having a career to raising a family. Some enjoyed being full time mothers and all the joy and memories it brought.
Must admit that the morning coffee discussions centred on which powder produced the whitest nappies did become brain numbing, so I went back to university.
The Uni was extremely supportive of 'mature mum' students -provided fabulous child care centre which my son still recalls 30years later.
Yet again I consider I was lucky. Not much money-certainly none of the latest household gadgets but two fantastic lads and the start of a good career which fitted in with them- rather than them fitting in with me and my wants, needs, demands.
that sentence made me want to reply. I felt it was so so sad, but I guess I look at things from a different perspective, not necessarily correct but mine.
Jennie

Re: How PC is N Zee
 

I'm sure they did- but how many compared with men? That's the real question. BTW, both nursing and teaching are interesting careers.

Yes, it sounds as though you were, good for you :thumbup:



It's marvellous that you got to raise a family and have a career :)

The playing field isn't level though until either both parents are having careers that fit in around the family and kids, or society no longer cold shoulders women who choose to have careers that their families fit around.

For the record I'm coming to the end of ten years of SAH parenting- only interspersed with very part time work that was flexible around my family's needs, but I am off to uni next year and I expect my husband to adjust his career to suit and I have no issue with women who choose careers that their families have to fit around (within reason- parenting comes with sacrifice, that is unavoidable, imo), why should I when girls still outperform boys in school and yet 20 years later earn less in the workplace.

Re: How PC is N Zee
 

I gave up, what would have been a very lucrative career in law, when I became pregnant with my first child. I felt it just wasn't compatable with raising a family. I stayed at home until my first child started school because I wanted to be with my children as much as I could be and was quite content with my old washer/cooker/suite/TV. They worked fine, just like me.:)Extra money which we desperately needed was earned by 'party plan' and private tuition.
When I opted for a new career path which would fit in with school holidays- there was only one choice- Education. 4years later both children were now in school-I chose part time-mornings only.This was fine as I was a specialist teacher and my courses only ran in a morning.
Not until they reached upper school age did I take on extra responsibilities and begin to work full time.
None of what I have achieved could have been done without the help and support of my other half. Regards salaries, some male colleagues having greater responsibility, earned more than me but then I earned more than a lot of male colleagues, who had less responsibility.
I say that I was lucky- not to get to raise a family and have a career. but to have a husband who supported my efforts and stepped in when ever he could.
The men of past generations put up with a lot of injustices. My husband was not allowed to leave his night shift on the night our first son was born-even though we both nearly died. He wasn't entitled to paternity leave but took his annual holiday instead.
I am not saying everything was rosy in the 60s just that I preferred motherhood in the early 70's than to today.
I had a very ambitious female colleague, who had literally mapped her life out into stages where she would achieve each of her goals.
A Levels/ Degree/ career/ promotion and Engaged by 24/
further promotion by26/
further promotion and marriage by 28/
deputy headship by 30/
Headship by 34 followed by children.
When asked why children came last in her goals- "nothing else left to achieve".
BB
It's marvellous that you are going to Uni next year- You will have a ball. :thumbup:
All of a sudden you become a REAL PERSON. I'm sure your husband and the rest of your family will support you and be so proud of your achievements.
Even at my age I envy your journey!:D
Jennie

Re: How PC is N Zee
 

Remember 2 -3 years ago Paul Holmes, well known NZ presenter and at the time the highest paid TV personality in NZ opened his breakfast show by saying "Have you heard what Kofi Anan has been up to overnight, been a bit of a cheeky darkie hasnt he?" ..... To be fair he did get some stick for it but still....

Re: How PC is N Zee
 

The cheeky darkie commment was an interesting one though. I am no fan of the speaking gnome but even I thought he very deliberately used that expression. It was a deliberate ploy to get people to consider how that wasn't an acceptable way of referring to peole. I really doubt that he genuinely would have thought of him as a 'darkie'.

Like I said, Paul Holmes irritates the hell out of me. But I do think the use of that word was very very deliberate.

Re: How PC is N Zee
 

I'm pleased you posted - this thread looked like it was going the way of women chaining themselves to the kitchen sink :blink: Looks like it will be another generation before some women value equality over a door being opened for them.

However I don't agree with the comment about women not getting equal pay (in the UK) - if numbers are corrected for age, qualifications, work sector and duration in sector then I believe they are.

Frequently reports compare, for example a 35 yr old woman with a 35yr old man in the same job - but do not take into account that typically the woman has not worked as many years due to child rearing (far higher percent of women take time off for birth and early years than men) and has less years of work exp.

Or they compare a degree qualified woman with a degree qualified man - but not with the same degree and women historically have chosen subjects that do not pay as well as those the men have chosen.

Or they compare jobs which aren't really comparable - i.e. male coal miner with female cleaner.

Or they do not take into account that frequently women are more balanced and manage their work:life balance better - great for their sanity but not as good for the company as the blokes who work 60+ hrs pw (at least in the short-term, and short-term seems to be the way).

I think you'll find that in a direct comparison women are paid the same (within a margin if error tolerance).

Re: How PC is N Zee
 

Yep, ok...sure it was deliberate.

Not sure who Mr. Holmes is but I think he's the one with the lovely, smart and intelligent daughter, correct?

How could a doof like him not naturally make a comment like that???

Back to PC. Heard a chap on national radio talking today about a serious incident to which his final words were 'shut happens.' This was at 8.30am.
My friends youngest was in the car with us, I was dumbfounded :thumbdown:

Re: How PC is N Zee
 

I think that's the point!!! Women bear the brunt of the early childcare that cripples their career and pay prospects- why should that be so for the majority? The stats that make that comparison show that it is still women who make that sacrifice is the huge majority and there is no reason for that to be so.

As an aside, I've no idea whether it was representative but in NZ I knew three families where the female was the wage earner and the male was the SAH parent for years. I envied those kids at times- men and children also suffer from historical rigid roles. Men have so much to offer kids and families beyond a wage and the bath and bed routine.

Re: How PC is N Zee
 

You beat me to it..this is the first weird un pc thing I noticed...golliwog dolls on sale in Kirks in Wellington and elsewhere :blink:iu.
At the moment there is also a strange exhibition on in Lower Hutt at the New Dowse (council owned I think) of a display of rag dolls which all have uniform black features and curly hair and the artist is/was a middleaged white guy...maybe it is totally cool and PC but I couldn't be bothered to stay and look..it felt creepy like the golliwogs in Kirks. http://www.dowse.org.nz/en/Exhibitio...mily-Occasion/
Yes and I grew up with the Robertsons jam badges/pot golliwog figures etc but it was my Grandma who saved the labels for me from the jam jars not my PC parents!

Re: How PC is N Zee
 

Spare a thought for all the men chained to the kitchen sink!
Dare I dare to say that some men are actually better at some things than women and visa versa! My son's and my husband are fantastic cooks- early training works wonders- ;)
As for equality or having a gentleman; man; lad; boy
open a door for me -I would choose both any day- and get it.:D
No-one says we have to have children. It really isn't a pre-requisite of 'success'. If the thought of everything children bring to a mother or father's life is viewed as an incumbrance, a nuisance, something to tolerate or endure, then for goodness sake opt out! They really don't belong on a list of acquisitions or achievements.
Until men can be altered so that they carry and deliver babies, then women just have to accept the 'burden' of motherhood and all the terrible injustices and career path suspension or changes it inevitably brings.
There are plenty of men out there who do more than a full days work and come home to face a full evening of baby/toddler chores and nighttime calming.
I sometimes think that my generation has created some moddle-coddled demanding women, who site child minding/rearing as the most tiresome, stressful, demanding, unfulfilling JOB in the world and woe betide the poor man who dares to complain about his lot!
Ah- that's nice!
Hubby has just arrived with my first drink of the evening on a tray with some nibbles.:)
He's prepared the evening meal and asks when I would like it.
Depends how many of you begin to attack me!:unsure:
jennie

Re: How PC is N Zee
 

No one's going to attack you Jennifer - we just grew up at different times with different values. It doesn't mean one is better than the other, we all have a valid point of view.



I don't think it is the fact that the doll is black that makes it racist. It is the use of the term 'golliwog' as a racist insult that has led people feel uncomfortable about black dolls that look like the Enid Blyton character of that name. Black dolls are often found in countries where there is a dark skinned native population. It would be questionable if the only dolls permitted were of the fair skinned variety. I think the discomfort over the 'golliwog' is particularly British, but I am happy be corrected on this.

Re: How PC is N Zee
 

Thanks,
one thing I have learnt over the past few years is to consider very carefully how 'what one says' might be interpreted. My dear mother used to say the one thing that she enjoyed about growing old, was being able to be totally honest and speak one's mind and people accepted that it was all due to 'age'!;)
I am relieved that you realise that different generations see things differently.
I know there are lots of injustices and inequalities in today's world and I do admire the steps taken to adjust them.
I'm amidst the injustices perpetrated on your senior citizens at the mo, so I guess we all have a cross to bear.[please don't read christian connotations into that last sentence.]:unsure:
I am experiencing genuine injustice at the mo. For my Green credentials!
I sold my beautiful 1.8is MX5!
The one thing I really, really miss is my own car! Independence!
Also it was an absolute gem! but insurance, tax and cost of laying her up 6 months of the year + imminent emigration, meant she had to go, especially when offered 1500 above list price!
I missssssssssssss!
I hate sharing a CAR!
Never shared a bank account never shared a car!
My own car was a sign of total independence!
A car was far more important than equal pay in the 60's.
You were able to take yourself home!!!