How backward is New Zealand
Feb 2nd 2010, 8:03 pm
#31
NZ ways is best ways :0)
Joined: Oct 2006
Location: Christchurch, NZ
Posts: 1,109
Re: How backward is New Zealand
Is it just me, or does HeavenlyScent have the whiff of troll about them? Whether that's true or not, it's made an entertaining read, and I hold this up as a great example of the happy clappy crowd in full indignant roar. Personal insults to the OP - veiled and otherwise - are a lovely finishing touch. Full marks.
Feb 2nd 2010, 8:42 pm
#32
Banned
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 50
Re: How backward is New Zealand
No choice in the supermarkets, if u want to home back u r ok, want a convenience meal forget it!
Education is appaling, my opinion of having 4 kids in the UK system then NZ
No expectations for kids to leave school and go to University
No expectations for kids to leave school and go to University
The people are NOT intelligent and to get an intelligent conversation is near on impossible
Health and Safety is a joke
Music is mostly american rap and NZ follow american culture
Most music is based on American music.
Wages are do not match expectations, therefore lifestyle you have previously had is no where in sight
The Kiwi's do not want progress especially in all the farms I visited
NZ is not safer than the UK in our experience
Drugs are a big acceptable part of their culture
The biggest suicide rate in teenagers is in NZ as the pressure on kids to go out and work to bring in money for the family, is a bigger pressure than getting a good education in the UK
which is cool dialog in a movie, but not cool in modern everyday conversation.
College courses are few and far between
I just wonder about the overall quality.
Being so far away from other countries, it has been left behind
The fact that there is no structure to society is very hard to work with, especially as the UK is so structured
Lots of Adults in NZ believe in being in gangs, which their kids follow.
This is not a england vs nz post, but I was asked my opinion and I am sure there are lots of people out there who can help me try to explain how lots of Brits find NZ backward 
Feb 2nd 2010, 8:56 pm
#33
`
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 38,627
Re: How backward is New Zealand
These people lived in NZ for 2 years. They have seen it and done it, from the inside out and they should be perfectly entitled to express their opinions without all the personal insults, slurs, jeering and baying.
They are a family that came to live here and subsequently returned to the UK. They have toyed with the idea of returning to NZ from the UK. The OP is a teacher and as far as I can see is using the modern day, txt type, writing that most all of you use at some time or other.
Further, the post may come via an i-phone or similar, so cut a little slack people. Some of your own posts wouldn't gain a gold star for grammar and punctuation.
It is as the OP states. This is a thread to respond to two posts made on another thread.
HS post.
this response
and this reasonable response ....
Y'all want to disagree with the OPs viewpoint on an assortment of subjects? That's fine. You are perfectly entitled to express your own opinions too. Perhaps read BE Rule 1.
Whether that's true or not, it's made an entertaining read, and I hold this up as a great example of the happy clappy crowd in full indignant roar. Personal insults to the OP - veiled and otherwise - are a lovely finishing touch..
Feb 2nd 2010, 9:16 pm
#34
Cow on the Beach
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: Seatoun, Wellington
Posts: 699
Re: How backward is New Zealand
Of course you are entitled to your opinion, and you have started an interesting thread. Here are my views
No choice in the supermarkets, if u want to home back u r ok, want a convenience meal forget it! – The choices are those supported by the size of the market, and the geographical and economic situation of New Zealand. Yes you are right that there is less choice and prices can be higher but using the ability to buy convenience foods, loaded with salt, sugars, fats trans fats etc. is not exactly a compelling argument
Education is appalling, my opinion of having 4 kids in the UK system then NZ - Not true. International studies show that the NZ system is rated as one of the best in the world.
No expectations for kids to leave school and go to University – Again wrong. A far higher proportion of the population in New Zealand have achieved a tertiary education qualification here (41%) in 2007 than in the UK (33%) and the rate of those doing so is increasing faster in NZ too.
Try this link http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/41/25/43636332.pdf
The people are NOT intelligent and to get an intelligent conversation is near on impossible - Although intelligence is subjective given that OECD figures indicate a substantial greater proportion of New Zealand population has upper secondary and tertiary education, I would suggest either this statement is incorrect, or your experience did not align with the NZ average (or the people you spoke to were deliberately keeping their conversations at a low level – for whatever reason)
Health and Safety is a joke – Although a 2006 report does show that deaths through injury are higher in New Zealand than the UK, they are much lower than those in the US and about the same level as Denmark (not a country known for being dangerous I would maintain) http://www.nzips.govt.nz/documents/I...on30.06.06.pdf
Music is mostly american rap and NZ follow american culture – Midnight Youth, Crowded House, Ladyhawke, Nathan King – all not very American – I hardly hear any rap music. OK there is a fair bit of rock music much of which belongs in the 70’s but that’s what people like….like a lot of Europe! (have you heard what the French and Germans listen to – Schlagermuisc!!!)
Wages are do not match expectations, therefore lifestyle you have previously had is no where in sight – That depends on what you expect. If you can measure the difference between desire and earnings as debt then the levels of household debt here is less than the UK (but admittedly rising fast however this data is before the credit crunch which has impacted the UK harder than NZ)
The Kiwi's do not want progress especially in all the farms I visited – As opposed to mad cow disease, foot and mouth, factory farming ?
NZ is not safer than the UK in our experience – You’re repeating yourself but NZ is statistically more dangerous than the UK but given the access to extreme sports being as safe as Denmark is not too bad.
Drugs are a big acceptable part of their culture – Yes the Kiwi drug use, especially cannabis is very high by international comparison. Interestingly however for teenagers, statistically there is no bigger issue here than in UK – so you could surmise it’s the older users causing the cultural problem.
The biggest suicide rate in teenagers is in NZ as the pressure on kids to go out and work to bring in money for the family, is a bigger pressure than getting a good education in the UK – Not sure I agree with the conclusion regarding pressures. Have you a report to back that up? Again whilst NZ does have a higher rate than the UK and US it’s rate is similar to Luxembourg and Switzerland.
http://www.who.int/mental_health/pre...iciderates/en/
College courses are few and far between.- and yet many more people go to tertiary education than the UK
Being so far away from other countries, it has been left behind – you could argue that ease of communicating ideas these days make distance less of a factor than say language.
The fact that there is no structure to society is very hard to work with, especially as the UK is so structured – never thought NZ was an anarchic society! What do you mean ’no structure’?
Lots of Adults in NZ believe in being in gangs, which their kids follow. – Again – wrong. In NZ there are about 4000 gang members in a population of over 4 million (1 in 1000). In the US it is 800000 out of 300 million (1 in 380), even in the UK there is an estimated 2800 gangs with a membership of 80,000 out of a population of 60 million (1 in 750)
In conclusion, whilst no-one can dispute your personal experience and observations and you have a right to your opinions, perhaps you should do some factual research to broaden your knowledge base before voicing those opinions.
No choice in the supermarkets, if u want to home back u r ok, want a convenience meal forget it! – The choices are those supported by the size of the market, and the geographical and economic situation of New Zealand. Yes you are right that there is less choice and prices can be higher but using the ability to buy convenience foods, loaded with salt, sugars, fats trans fats etc. is not exactly a compelling argument
Education is appalling, my opinion of having 4 kids in the UK system then NZ - Not true. International studies show that the NZ system is rated as one of the best in the world.
No expectations for kids to leave school and go to University – Again wrong. A far higher proportion of the population in New Zealand have achieved a tertiary education qualification here (41%) in 2007 than in the UK (33%) and the rate of those doing so is increasing faster in NZ too.
Try this link http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/41/25/43636332.pdf
The people are NOT intelligent and to get an intelligent conversation is near on impossible - Although intelligence is subjective given that OECD figures indicate a substantial greater proportion of New Zealand population has upper secondary and tertiary education, I would suggest either this statement is incorrect, or your experience did not align with the NZ average (or the people you spoke to were deliberately keeping their conversations at a low level – for whatever reason)
Health and Safety is a joke – Although a 2006 report does show that deaths through injury are higher in New Zealand than the UK, they are much lower than those in the US and about the same level as Denmark (not a country known for being dangerous I would maintain) http://www.nzips.govt.nz/documents/I...on30.06.06.pdf
Music is mostly american rap and NZ follow american culture – Midnight Youth, Crowded House, Ladyhawke, Nathan King – all not very American – I hardly hear any rap music. OK there is a fair bit of rock music much of which belongs in the 70’s but that’s what people like….like a lot of Europe! (have you heard what the French and Germans listen to – Schlagermuisc!!!)
Wages are do not match expectations, therefore lifestyle you have previously had is no where in sight – That depends on what you expect. If you can measure the difference between desire and earnings as debt then the levels of household debt here is less than the UK (but admittedly rising fast however this data is before the credit crunch which has impacted the UK harder than NZ)
The Kiwi's do not want progress especially in all the farms I visited – As opposed to mad cow disease, foot and mouth, factory farming ?
NZ is not safer than the UK in our experience – You’re repeating yourself but NZ is statistically more dangerous than the UK but given the access to extreme sports being as safe as Denmark is not too bad.
Drugs are a big acceptable part of their culture – Yes the Kiwi drug use, especially cannabis is very high by international comparison. Interestingly however for teenagers, statistically there is no bigger issue here than in UK – so you could surmise it’s the older users causing the cultural problem.
The biggest suicide rate in teenagers is in NZ as the pressure on kids to go out and work to bring in money for the family, is a bigger pressure than getting a good education in the UK – Not sure I agree with the conclusion regarding pressures. Have you a report to back that up? Again whilst NZ does have a higher rate than the UK and US it’s rate is similar to Luxembourg and Switzerland.
http://www.who.int/mental_health/pre...iciderates/en/
College courses are few and far between.- and yet many more people go to tertiary education than the UK
Being so far away from other countries, it has been left behind – you could argue that ease of communicating ideas these days make distance less of a factor than say language.
The fact that there is no structure to society is very hard to work with, especially as the UK is so structured – never thought NZ was an anarchic society! What do you mean ’no structure’?
Lots of Adults in NZ believe in being in gangs, which their kids follow. – Again – wrong. In NZ there are about 4000 gang members in a population of over 4 million (1 in 1000). In the US it is 800000 out of 300 million (1 in 380), even in the UK there is an estimated 2800 gangs with a membership of 80,000 out of a population of 60 million (1 in 750)
In conclusion, whilst no-one can dispute your personal experience and observations and you have a right to your opinions, perhaps you should do some factual research to broaden your knowledge base before voicing those opinions.
Feb 2nd 2010, 9:29 pm
#35
Scorchy legs
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: Kapiti coast
Posts: 2,069
Re: How backward is New Zealand
Of course you are entitled to your opinion, and you have started an interesting thread. Here are my views
No choice in the supermarkets, if u want to home back u r ok, want a convenience meal forget it! – The choices are those supported by the size of the market, and the geographical and economic situation of New Zealand. Yes you are right that there is less choice and prices can be higher but using the ability to buy convenience foods, loaded with salt, sugars, fats trans fats etc. is not exactly a compelling argument
Education is appalling, my opinion of having 4 kids in the UK system then NZ - Not true. International studies show that the NZ system is rated as one of the best in the world.
No expectations for kids to leave school and go to University – Again wrong. A far higher proportion of the population in New Zealand have achieved a tertiary education qualification here (41%) in 2007 than in the UK (33%) and the rate of those doing so is increasing faster in NZ too.
Try this link http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/41/25/43636332.pdf
The people are NOT intelligent and to get an intelligent conversation is near on impossible - Although intelligence is subjective given that OECD figures indicate a substantial greater proportion of New Zealand population has upper secondary and tertiary education, I would suggest either this statement is incorrect, or your experience did not align with the NZ average (or the people you spoke to were deliberately keeping their conversations at a low level – for whatever reason)
Health and Safety is a joke – Although a 2006 report does show that deaths through injury are higher in New Zealand than the UK, they are much lower than those in the US and about the same level as Denmark (not a country known for being dangerous I would maintain) http://www.nzips.govt.nz/documents/I...on30.06.06.pdf
Music is mostly american rap and NZ follow american culture – Midnight Youth, Crowded House, Ladyhawke, Nathan King – all not very American – I hardly hear any rap music. OK there is a fair bit of rock music much of which belongs in the 70’s but that’s what people like….like a lot of Europe! (have you heard what the French and Germans listen to – Schlagermuisc!!!)
Wages are do not match expectations, therefore lifestyle you have previously had is no where in sight – That depends on what you expect. If you can measure the difference between desire and earnings as debt then the levels of household debt here is less than the UK (but admittedly rising fast however this data is before the credit crunch which has impacted the UK harder than NZ)
The Kiwi's do not want progress especially in all the farms I visited – As opposed to mad cow disease, foot and mouth, factory farming ?
NZ is not safer than the UK in our experience – You’re repeating yourself but NZ is statistically more dangerous than the UK but given the access to extreme sports being as safe as Denmark is not too bad.
Drugs are a big acceptable part of their culture – Yes the Kiwi drug use, especially cannabis is very high by international comparison. Interestingly however for teenagers, statistically there is no bigger issue here than in UK – so you could surmise it’s the older users causing the cultural problem.
The biggest suicide rate in teenagers is in NZ as the pressure on kids to go out and work to bring in money for the family, is a bigger pressure than getting a good education in the UK – Not sure I agree with the conclusion regarding pressures. Have you a report to back that up? Again whilst NZ does have a higher rate than the UK and US it’s rate is similar to Luxembourg and Switzerland.
http://www.who.int/mental_health/pre...iciderates/en/
College courses are few and far between.- and yet many more people go to tertiary education than the UK
Being so far away from other countries, it has been left behind – you could argue that ease of communicating ideas these days make distance less of a factor than say language.
The fact that there is no structure to society is very hard to work with, especially as the UK is so structured – never thought NZ was an anarchic society! What do you mean ’no structure’?
Lots of Adults in NZ believe in being in gangs, which their kids follow. – Again – wrong. In NZ there are about 4000 gang members in a population of over 4 million (1 in 1000). In the US it is 800000 out of 300 million (1 in 380), even in the UK there is an estimated 2800 gangs with a membership of 80,000 out of a population of 60 million (1 in 750)
In conclusion, whilst no-one can dispute your personal experience and observations and you have a right to your opinions, perhaps you should do some factual research to broaden your knowledge base before voicing those opinions.
No choice in the supermarkets, if u want to home back u r ok, want a convenience meal forget it! – The choices are those supported by the size of the market, and the geographical and economic situation of New Zealand. Yes you are right that there is less choice and prices can be higher but using the ability to buy convenience foods, loaded with salt, sugars, fats trans fats etc. is not exactly a compelling argument
Education is appalling, my opinion of having 4 kids in the UK system then NZ - Not true. International studies show that the NZ system is rated as one of the best in the world.
No expectations for kids to leave school and go to University – Again wrong. A far higher proportion of the population in New Zealand have achieved a tertiary education qualification here (41%) in 2007 than in the UK (33%) and the rate of those doing so is increasing faster in NZ too.
Try this link http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/41/25/43636332.pdf
The people are NOT intelligent and to get an intelligent conversation is near on impossible - Although intelligence is subjective given that OECD figures indicate a substantial greater proportion of New Zealand population has upper secondary and tertiary education, I would suggest either this statement is incorrect, or your experience did not align with the NZ average (or the people you spoke to were deliberately keeping their conversations at a low level – for whatever reason)
Health and Safety is a joke – Although a 2006 report does show that deaths through injury are higher in New Zealand than the UK, they are much lower than those in the US and about the same level as Denmark (not a country known for being dangerous I would maintain) http://www.nzips.govt.nz/documents/I...on30.06.06.pdf
Music is mostly american rap and NZ follow american culture – Midnight Youth, Crowded House, Ladyhawke, Nathan King – all not very American – I hardly hear any rap music. OK there is a fair bit of rock music much of which belongs in the 70’s but that’s what people like….like a lot of Europe! (have you heard what the French and Germans listen to – Schlagermuisc!!!)
Wages are do not match expectations, therefore lifestyle you have previously had is no where in sight – That depends on what you expect. If you can measure the difference between desire and earnings as debt then the levels of household debt here is less than the UK (but admittedly rising fast however this data is before the credit crunch which has impacted the UK harder than NZ)
The Kiwi's do not want progress especially in all the farms I visited – As opposed to mad cow disease, foot and mouth, factory farming ?
NZ is not safer than the UK in our experience – You’re repeating yourself but NZ is statistically more dangerous than the UK but given the access to extreme sports being as safe as Denmark is not too bad.
Drugs are a big acceptable part of their culture – Yes the Kiwi drug use, especially cannabis is very high by international comparison. Interestingly however for teenagers, statistically there is no bigger issue here than in UK – so you could surmise it’s the older users causing the cultural problem.
The biggest suicide rate in teenagers is in NZ as the pressure on kids to go out and work to bring in money for the family, is a bigger pressure than getting a good education in the UK – Not sure I agree with the conclusion regarding pressures. Have you a report to back that up? Again whilst NZ does have a higher rate than the UK and US it’s rate is similar to Luxembourg and Switzerland.
http://www.who.int/mental_health/pre...iciderates/en/
College courses are few and far between.- and yet many more people go to tertiary education than the UK
Being so far away from other countries, it has been left behind – you could argue that ease of communicating ideas these days make distance less of a factor than say language.
The fact that there is no structure to society is very hard to work with, especially as the UK is so structured – never thought NZ was an anarchic society! What do you mean ’no structure’?
Lots of Adults in NZ believe in being in gangs, which their kids follow. – Again – wrong. In NZ there are about 4000 gang members in a population of over 4 million (1 in 1000). In the US it is 800000 out of 300 million (1 in 380), even in the UK there is an estimated 2800 gangs with a membership of 80,000 out of a population of 60 million (1 in 750)
In conclusion, whilst no-one can dispute your personal experience and observations and you have a right to your opinions, perhaps you should do some factual research to broaden your knowledge base before voicing those opinions.
so eloquently put, well done Wooly
Feb 2nd 2010, 9:35 pm
#36
---
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,994
Re: How backward is New Zealand
No, actually, Wiz'n'ton.
These people lived in NZ for 2 years. They have seen it and done it, from the inside out and they should be perfectly entitled to express their opinions without all the personal insults, slurs, jeering and baying.
They are a family that came to live here and subsequently returned to the UK. They have toyed with the idea of returning to NZ from the UK. The OP is a teacher and as far as I can see is using the modern day, txt type, writing that most all of you use at some time or other.
These people lived in NZ for 2 years. They have seen it and done it, from the inside out and they should be perfectly entitled to express their opinions without all the personal insults, slurs, jeering and baying.
They are a family that came to live here and subsequently returned to the UK. They have toyed with the idea of returning to NZ from the UK. The OP is a teacher and as far as I can see is using the modern day, txt type, writing that most all of you use at some time or other.
Also, wrt the laughter over the literacy of the post, I doubt anyone would have commented on it all but that the OP actually makes an offensive remark about the intellect of Kiwis!! "The people are NOT intelligent and to get an intelligent conversation is near on impossible" is just so offensive. It's quite possible to write about frustrations and disappointments and difficulties of living in NZ without descending to the level of the OP, who as you say isn't even living here anymore so can't claim to be suffering from culture shock/homesickness etc that can make people uncharacteristically agro and needing to be cut some slack. Has all the markings of deliberately posting inflammatory posts, but your call I guess. I'm surprised you feel so strongly about people reacting to an antagonistic, insulting post though.
Feb 2nd 2010, 9:54 pm
#37
NZ ways is best ways :0)
Joined: Oct 2006
Location: Christchurch, NZ
Posts: 1,109
Re: How backward is New Zealand
Then that's a good thing, it just seemed to be hitting too many buttons to be the real deal. I should get on here more eh?
Too true.
Too true.
Feb 2nd 2010, 9:56 pm
#38
`
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 38,627
Re: How backward is New Zealand
Originally Posted by BB
I understand what you're saying
My thought about personal slurs would be the same , be the subject matter about NZ or the UK .
The best way to respond to a post seen as deliberately inflammatory or trollish is to use the report button , not to further inflame and insult.
However, the thread was started in response to two posts requesting further explanation from the OP which they have done.
Feb 2nd 2010, 9:56 pm
#39
BE Enthusiast
Joined: May 2005
Location: Bay Of Plenty
Posts: 797
Re: How backward is New Zealand
I work with Kiwi's they seem pretty smart to me
Feb 2nd 2010, 10:46 pm
#41
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 445
Re: How backward is New Zealand
Well!!!!!!
Things never change on here, anyone has anything negative to say and the same old crowd start throwing personal insults. Must be down to your own insecurities and the need of some kind of self affirmation as to why you like it hear.
One thing I have noticed more & more in NZ (Canterbury) is the lack of manners and etiquette, whether it be driving or general stuff like holding doors open etc.
Must be catching. LOL
Things never change on here, anyone has anything negative to say and the same old crowd start throwing personal insults. Must be down to your own insecurities and the need of some kind of self affirmation as to why you like it hear.
One thing I have noticed more & more in NZ (Canterbury) is the lack of manners and etiquette, whether it be driving or general stuff like holding doors open etc.
Must be catching. LOL
Feb 2nd 2010, 11:17 pm
#42
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,208
Re: How backward is New Zealand
My comment was a joke, that's why I put "joke, joke ..." on the end of it Miss!
Didn't mean to cause offence. Shall take self off to naughty corner.
Didn't mean to cause offence. Shall take self off to naughty corner.
Feb 2nd 2010, 11:43 pm
#43
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: Wellington
Posts: 1,208
Re: How backward is New Zealand
Hi
Someone asked me this week in a post how I could describe New Zealand as Backward. Can people help me explain as I have pondered on the subject for days
No choice in the supermarkets, if u want to home back u r ok, want a convenience meal forget it!
Education is appaling, my opinion of having 4 kids in the UK system then NZ
No expectations for kids to leave school and go to University
The people are NOT intelligent and to get an intelligent conversation is near on impossible
Health and Safety is a joke
Music is mostly american rap and NZ follow american culture
Wages are do not match expectations, therefore lifestyle you have previously had is no where in sight
The Kiwi's do not want progress especially in all the farms I visited
NZ is not safer than the UK in our experience
Drugs are a big acceptable part of their culture
The biggest suicide rate in teenagers is in NZ as the pressure on kids to go out and work to bring in money for the family, is a bigger pressure than getting a good education in the UK
College courses are few and far between
Being so far away from other countries, it has been left behind
The fact that there is no structure to society is very hard to work with, especially as the UK is so structured
Lots of Adults in NZ believe in being in gangs, which their kids follow.
This is not a england vs nz post, but I was asked my opinion and I am sure there are lots of people out there who can help me try to explain how lots of Brits find NZ backward
Someone asked me this week in a post how I could describe New Zealand as Backward. Can people help me explain as I have pondered on the subject for days
No choice in the supermarkets, if u want to home back u r ok, want a convenience meal forget it!
Education is appaling, my opinion of having 4 kids in the UK system then NZ
No expectations for kids to leave school and go to University
The people are NOT intelligent and to get an intelligent conversation is near on impossible
Health and Safety is a joke
Music is mostly american rap and NZ follow american culture
Wages are do not match expectations, therefore lifestyle you have previously had is no where in sight
The Kiwi's do not want progress especially in all the farms I visited
NZ is not safer than the UK in our experience
Drugs are a big acceptable part of their culture
The biggest suicide rate in teenagers is in NZ as the pressure on kids to go out and work to bring in money for the family, is a bigger pressure than getting a good education in the UK
College courses are few and far between
Being so far away from other countries, it has been left behind
The fact that there is no structure to society is very hard to work with, especially as the UK is so structured
Lots of Adults in NZ believe in being in gangs, which their kids follow.
This is not a england vs nz post, but I was asked my opinion and I am sure there are lots of people out there who can help me try to explain how lots of Brits find NZ backward
Personally I think most of what you have added as proof of this "backwardness" is generic and vague, there are some issues with some parts of NZ culture but you have gone for a very broad brush approach and some of the items you have listed are quite insulting to NZ itself and quite parochial UK-centric attitudes.
Edit: Ok so this was written before reading most of the rest of the thread!!
But I still think generally sweeping generalisations are no way to describe a country, if they had given examples, such as the lack of GAP or the inability to get Potato Waffles then I may have been more inclined to not go off on one
Last edited by irnbru14; Feb 2nd 2010 at 11:51 pm.
