Grandchildrens right to British Citezinship?
Dec 5th 2007, 1:46 am
#1
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Grandchildrens right to British Citezinship?
Hello there I am hopng that someone can help me with this query regarding my granchildren (all born in New Zealand) and if they can apply for British Citizenship.
They are as follows (I the grandma was born in the UK) All grandchildren are currently living in NZ
2 boys aged 8 weeks and 2.5yrs their Mum is a Kiwi and their dad (my son) was born in the UK and came with us to live in NZ when he was 1yr old.
1 Boy aged 6 months his mum is a kiwi but has British Citizenship from being resident in the Uk for 6yrs his dad (my son) was born in New Zealand but has British Citizenship from my being born in the UK. My ex husband is a Kiwi.
The daughter in law was told by imigration that the 6month old didnt qualify for British Citezinship amd we are unsure about the other 2.....I was wondering if anyone else has come across this.
Any help much appreciated.
Cheers, Cally (By the way if you happen to read this JAJ i finally got my NZ Citizenship Yeeha!
They are as follows (I the grandma was born in the UK) All grandchildren are currently living in NZ
2 boys aged 8 weeks and 2.5yrs their Mum is a Kiwi and their dad (my son) was born in the UK and came with us to live in NZ when he was 1yr old.
1 Boy aged 6 months his mum is a kiwi but has British Citizenship from being resident in the Uk for 6yrs his dad (my son) was born in New Zealand but has British Citizenship from my being born in the UK. My ex husband is a Kiwi.
The daughter in law was told by imigration that the 6month old didnt qualify for British Citezinship amd we are unsure about the other 2.....I was wondering if anyone else has come across this.
Any help much appreciated.
Cheers, Cally (By the way if you happen to read this JAJ i finally got my NZ Citizenship Yeeha!
Dec 5th 2007, 2:32 am
#3
Sleazy Dippin Doodle
Joined: May 2007
Location: wellington
Posts: 1,363
Re: Grandchildrens right to British Citezinship?
Hi, it is best to check www.ukvisas.gov.uk and particularly Right of abode (INF 12).
Assuming that the mother of the 8 week and 2.5yr old is a different mother to the mother of the 6 month old (but same father) this is how i have interpreted it:
It is a bit weird that they told you that the 6 month old would not be eligible as it appears (from the Home Office/UK Visa site) that, assuming the parent was a citizen at the time of the childrens birth then that child would be British citizens themselves.
[I]You will also be a British citizen if:
The key thing seems to be that their mother, as a naturalised citizen is able to pass on her citizenship but your son, as a citizen by descent is not.
But it kind of appears that the 2.5 year old and the 8 week old would not be citizens as it appears you can't pass on citizenship by descent.
However, if the laws don't change for another 17 years or so, when they reach 17 yrs they are entitled to apply for an Ancestral Visa based upon their grandparents (you!) citizenship. This basically means they aren't citizens but they can work in the UK.
Right of Abode stuff:
http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/servlet/Fr...=1018721067826
Ancestry Visa
http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/servlet/Fr...=1018721067684
Assuming that the mother of the 8 week and 2.5yr old is a different mother to the mother of the 6 month old (but same father) this is how i have interpreted it:
It is a bit weird that they told you that the 6 month old would not be eligible as it appears (from the Home Office/UK Visa site) that, assuming the parent was a citizen at the time of the childrens birth then that child would be British citizens themselves.
[I]You will also be a British citizen if:
- you were born in the United Kingdom after 31 December 1982 and one of your parents was then a British citizen or legally settled in the United Kingdom
- you were born outside the United Kingdom after 31 December 1982 and at the time of your birth one parent was a British citizen other than by descent (for example, by naturalisation, registration or birth), or
- you were registered or naturalised as a British citizen after 31 December 1982.[/I
The key thing seems to be that their mother, as a naturalised citizen is able to pass on her citizenship but your son, as a citizen by descent is not.
But it kind of appears that the 2.5 year old and the 8 week old would not be citizens as it appears you can't pass on citizenship by descent.
However, if the laws don't change for another 17 years or so, when they reach 17 yrs they are entitled to apply for an Ancestral Visa based upon their grandparents (you!) citizenship. This basically means they aren't citizens but they can work in the UK.
Right of Abode stuff:
http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/servlet/Fr...=1018721067826
Ancestry Visa
http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/servlet/Fr...=1018721067684
Dec 5th 2007, 2:38 am
#4
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Re: Grandchildrens right to British Citezinship?
I looked into this recently.
The only benefit from having a British born grandparent is an entitlement to stay in the UK for 5 years as opposed to the usual two years for Kiwi's in general.
There is no automatic British citizenship for grandchildren (there used to be through a grandfather).
Kip
The only benefit from having a British born grandparent is an entitlement to stay in the UK for 5 years as opposed to the usual two years for Kiwi's in general.
There is no automatic British citizenship for grandchildren (there used to be through a grandfather).
Kip
Dec 5th 2007, 2:40 am
#5
Sleazy Dippin Doodle
Joined: May 2007
Location: wellington
Posts: 1,363
Re: Grandchildrens right to British Citezinship?
Ok now I am very confused myself as I can't work out if your son is a British citizen by descent or by registration!!
Which makes a difference to his ability to pass it on.
Though it does appear as though, if your son isn't/wasn't married to either of the mothers then he can't pass it on regardless. In which case it would depend on the mother's ability to pass it on.
Which makes a difference to his ability to pass it on.
Though it does appear as though, if your son isn't/wasn't married to either of the mothers then he can't pass it on regardless. In which case it would depend on the mother's ability to pass it on.
Dec 5th 2007, 5:39 am
#6
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Re: Grandchildrens right to British Citezinship?
Ok now I am very confused myself as I can't work out if your son is a British citizen by descent or by registration!!
Which makes a difference to his ability to pass it on.
Though it does appear as though, if your son isn't/wasn't married to either of the mothers then he can't pass it on regardless. In which case it would depend on the mother's ability to pass it on.
Which makes a difference to his ability to pass it on.
Though it does appear as though, if your son isn't/wasn't married to either of the mothers then he can't pass it on regardless. In which case it would depend on the mother's ability to pass it on.
Blimey. I need to lie down and take stock.
where is your elves ?
Dec 5th 2007, 10:21 am
#7
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Re: Grandchildrens right to British Citezinship?
As I see it: 
The first two are entitled to British citizenship as their father is a British citizen by birth.
The other child is not entitled to citizenship as his father is a British citizen by descent (through you), and he can't pass that citizenship to his child. And the child's mother can't pass on her naturalized British citizenship either.
Kip
The first two are entitled to British citizenship as their father is a British citizen by birth.
The other child is not entitled to citizenship as his father is a British citizen by descent (through you), and he can't pass that citizenship to his child. And the child's mother can't pass on her naturalized British citizenship either.
Kip
Last edited by Kippers; Dec 5th 2007 at 10:30 am. Reason: s
Dec 5th 2007, 10:30 am
#8
you dewty owld maan!
Joined: Oct 2005
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Re: Grandchildrens right to British Citezinship?
yeah grandkids of two different sons.......
was confused too to begin with,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
was confused too to begin with,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Dec 5th 2007, 11:10 am
#9
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Location: Nelson Bays/Abel Tasman NZ- my Utopia
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Re: Grandchildrens right to British Citezinship?
The mind is boggled!
I thought it was one of those 'Brain Exercises' and mine's gone for a rest.
My grandchildren ( UK father and Kiwi Mom) have dual nationality. UK and NZ passports.
Is everything through the paternal line?
Would it have been........
Yeh- right ok!
Forget it.
Need some caffeine!
Dec 5th 2007, 12:00 pm
#10
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Re: Grandchildrens right to British Citezinship?
1 Boy aged 6 months his mum is a kiwi but has British Citizenship from being resident in the Uk for 6yrs his dad (my son) was born in New Zealand but has British Citizenship from my being born in the UK.
Also, did the father ever live in the U.K.?
Cheers, Cally (By the way if you happen to read this JAJ i finally got my NZ Citizenship Yeeha!
Dec 5th 2007, 7:22 pm
#11
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Re: Grandchildrens right to British Citezinship?
Oh dear im sorry i seem to have confused everyone...And to think there i was lying on my bed with a G&T watching coronation street relaxing and unaware i had caused such confusion.......Sorry about that.
Yes I am talking about 2 seperate familys with 2 different partners here I have 2 sons one was born in the UK in 1975 the other was born in NZ in 1977. Both have different partners.
New Zealand born son went to live in the UK for 6yrs (he had british citizenship before he left NZ) at the time he got Uk Citizenship it was difficult to get and seemed to take forever because at that time it was automaticly granted if the father was british but not me the mother! which i remember being very unimpressed with at the time.
It states on the letter he recieved from the British High Commisson in Wellington in 1995 I am pleased to inform you that your application for registration of Nicky as a British Citizen has been approved.
Kiwi son met a Kiwi girl in London and she stayed long enough in the UK to get British Citezinship they returned to NZ 2 yrs ago to get married and live and they have the 6month old baby boy.
British born son has 2 children the 8week old and 2.5yr old he has lived in NZ since he was 1yr old he is not married to the mother of his children although they have been together quite a few years (she is a kiwi)
Hope i have clarified the situation a bit better i tend to write like i talk lol (never making much sense!) Cheers and have a great day! Thanks so uch for your input everyone....... Hi Bev i see you are in Nelson so am I!
Yes I am talking about 2 seperate familys with 2 different partners here I have 2 sons one was born in the UK in 1975 the other was born in NZ in 1977. Both have different partners.
New Zealand born son went to live in the UK for 6yrs (he had british citizenship before he left NZ) at the time he got Uk Citizenship it was difficult to get and seemed to take forever because at that time it was automaticly granted if the father was british but not me the mother! which i remember being very unimpressed with at the time.
It states on the letter he recieved from the British High Commisson in Wellington in 1995 I am pleased to inform you that your application for registration of Nicky as a British Citizen has been approved.
Kiwi son met a Kiwi girl in London and she stayed long enough in the UK to get British Citezinship they returned to NZ 2 yrs ago to get married and live and they have the 6month old baby boy.
British born son has 2 children the 8week old and 2.5yr old he has lived in NZ since he was 1yr old he is not married to the mother of his children although they have been together quite a few years (she is a kiwi)
Hope i have clarified the situation a bit better i tend to write like i talk lol (never making much sense!) Cheers and have a great day! Thanks so uch for your input everyone....... Hi Bev i see you are in Nelson so am I!
Dec 5th 2007, 7:28 pm
#12
Sleazy Dippin Doodle
Joined: May 2007
Location: wellington
Posts: 1,363
Re: Grandchildrens right to British Citezinship?
Used to be through the paternal line when claiming an Ancestry Visa but then it was changed so now it is solely a matter of grandparents (friends did it this year).
I confess though, for some reason i did read that to say that the childrens father was born in NZ (not sure why).
If they are unmarried then no, the father can't pass on citizenship. In the case of the naturalised mother, then she can pass it on, regardless of where the children were born.
While you can't always trust wikipedia, it does say that if the parents marry after the birth of the children and legitimise the birth then the father could pass on his citizenship.
According to wiki, British Citizenship can be passed on in the following ways:
British Citizenship can be acquired in the following ways:
Personally, i would take that list and if it is wrong ask the home office or British High Commission to explain why it isn't correct.
I confess though, for some reason i did read that to say that the childrens father was born in NZ (not sure why).
If they are unmarried then no, the father can't pass on citizenship. In the case of the naturalised mother, then she can pass it on, regardless of where the children were born.
While you can't always trust wikipedia, it does say that if the parents marry after the birth of the children and legitimise the birth then the father could pass on his citizenship.
According to wiki, British Citizenship can be passed on in the following ways:
British Citizenship can be acquired in the following ways:
- lex soli: By birth in the United Kingdom to a parent who is a British citizen at the time of the birth, or to a parent who is settled in the United Kingdom
- lex sanguinis: By descent if one of the parents is a British citizen otherwise than by descent (for example by birth, adoption, registration or naturalisation in the United Kingdom). Thus, British actress Emma Watson, born in France to British parents, has British citizenship.
- By naturalisation
- By registration
- By adoption
Personally, i would take that list and if it is wrong ask the home office or British High Commission to explain why it isn't correct.
Dec 5th 2007, 7:40 pm
#13
Sleazy Dippin Doodle
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Re: Grandchildrens right to British Citezinship?
Oops that shows why when the little message pops up to say “new reply posted” I should have read that.
So confusing. Best I can work out if Kiwi Son who is a registered british citizen, and married, can definitely pass it on.
Unmarried son probably can’t. But they could get married apparently and pass it on if able to prove that he is the father.
They don’t make things easy do they?
So confusing. Best I can work out if Kiwi Son who is a registered british citizen, and married, can definitely pass it on.
Unmarried son probably can’t. But they could get married apparently and pass it on if able to prove that he is the father.
They don’t make things easy do they?
Dec 5th 2007, 7:45 pm
#14
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Re: Grandchildrens right to British Citezinship?
Hi there Kiwiprincess! No they dont seem to make these things easy do they the mum of the kiwi born 6month old baby made enquiries about all this you see and was given a flat NO! on the phone and was very dissapointed.
The others havent done any enquiring yet but i said to her i will ask my "friends" on the british expats site as i never trust information coming from someone that just tells me a flat out No! And i thought maybe someone had come across a similar situation......
Thanks once again i will pass all of this info on....Cheers,Cally
The others havent done any enquiring yet but i said to her i will ask my "friends" on the british expats site as i never trust information coming from someone that just tells me a flat out No! And i thought maybe someone had come across a similar situation......
Thanks once again i will pass all of this info on....Cheers,Cally
Dec 5th 2007, 8:13 pm
#15
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Re: Grandchildrens right to British Citezinship?
JAJ is your man on this one Cally.
Best answer his post and then see what he comes back with.
Once you have it straight from JAJ, then your family will know exactly where they stand re. obtaining UK passports .
Best answer his post and then see what he comes back with.
Once you have it straight from JAJ, then your family will know exactly where they stand re. obtaining UK passports .
Last edited by BEVS; Dec 5th 2007 at 8:16 pm.