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Dilemma 2020 - I want to leave NZ but my partner wants to stay 2020

Dilemma 2020 - I want to leave NZ but my partner wants to stay 2020

Old Jan 9th 2020, 10:42 pm
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Default Dilemma 2020 - I want to leave NZ but my partner wants to stay 2020

I'm in a really tricky situation and wanted to see if anyone else has been in the same situation. I have been living in Auckland for 5 years and met my partner who is Brazilian 3 years ago. We now have a baby ( who is a NZ citizen and UK citizen) I have a perm residence and my partner has a work to residence Visa which has just started so 4 years to become perm from now. ( was not able to sponsor him as I originally sponsored and ex)

So my situation is that I really want to go back to the UK. Especially after having my baby i feel so lonely lost and unhappy in New Zealand. Figures wise we are not able to buy a house in Auckland anytime soon and I really don't want to have to move outside of Auckland as I already find it too quiet for my liking. I have some friends here but still feel like I am in the middle of no where draining all my money. The fact I have no family and support is really draining me and yes I know I knew this before the baby came but obviously feelings change and now I really want to be closer to my own family and also not have to rent a house for the rest of my life.

I have spoke to my partner about going to the UK as it would take him around the same time to get residency here. He has also said on many occasions that he is bored in NZ and doesn't see himself living there for the rest of his life. So seems obvious let's give UK a try he really likes it there and knows I will be so much happier. However this isn't how the conversation went
He has straight up said to me no that he needs to get his residence in NZ and thinks that waiting 4 to 5 years is reasonable.
I can't do it the thought makes me feel so sick and depressed and leads me to tears.
I have had conversations with my own parents who make me feel like a real scumbag for thinking of moving to UK without him. That its unfair on our baby ( note he also has children in brazil) he would be able to visit easier if we were in UK.

He told me bluntly that he was staying in NZ and it's up to me what I chose. Which in not a team decision i always think of we not I.

I am now stuck in a situation of do I stay in NZ and continue to be very unhappy and stay as a family unit or do I return back to the UK and make a new life. He doesn't seem set on changing his mind and I do feel that he is being quite stubborn to want to get residency but not actually want to live there.



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Old Jan 9th 2020, 11:53 pm
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Default Re: Dilemma 2020 - I want to leave NZ but my partner wants to stay 2020

Do whats best for you and your child.

Speaking as a Father, your partner seems very selfish.
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Old Jan 10th 2020, 3:50 am
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Default Re: Dilemma 2020 - I want to leave NZ but my partner wants to stay 2020

Sorry, I can understand where he might want to get his NZ residency .................... what if he leaves with you, doesn't settle in the UK, where does that leave him?

Getting NZ residency gives him another option, and that is something that is often advised to people who haven't settled in Canada.

What if you don't settle in the UK?? That's always possible!

Can you afford to go back to the UK with your baby for a 4-6 week vacation, see if you still want to go back.

I knew when we went back to the UK after 5 years in Canada that I could not live in the UK again. Everything had changed, friends had moved on, family were OK-ish, as long as we visited them.

You might well be suffering for post-partum depression ...... been there, done that. It can turn your life upside down.
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Old Jan 10th 2020, 7:19 am
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Default Re: Dilemma 2020 - I want to leave NZ but my partner wants to stay 2020

Thanks for your replys.
Currently in the UK have been here for 7 weeks and leave to go back to NZ next week. My partner is also here and said how much he likes it. Yes I could easily settle back here.
in terms of it not working unfortuantely it's not something I think about. It could not work in NZ and then I am left as a single mother with no one in NZ.
if the shoe was on the other foot I would do it for him. Plus he has stated how he does not want to live in Auckland so living in the UK would be exactly the same.
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Old Jan 10th 2020, 7:40 am
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Default Re: Dilemma 2020 - I want to leave NZ but my partner wants to stay 2020

Thanks for your replys.
Currently in the UK have been here for 7 weeks and leave to go back to NZ next week. My partner is also here and said how much he likes it. Yes I could easily settle back here.
in terms of it not working unfortuantely it's not something I think about. It could not work in NZ and then I am left as a single mother with no one in NZ.
if the shoe was on the other foot I would do it for him. Plus he has stated how he does not want to live in Auckland so living in the UK would be exactly the same.

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Old Jan 10th 2020, 9:28 am
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Default Re: Dilemma 2020 - I want to leave NZ but my partner wants to stay 2020

Personally from someone who moved on the proviso that if either one of us didn't settle we would leave after getting Citizenship, I would say just don't come back.

We got Citizenship 2 years ago, I have been wanting to leave for at least 4 years but still here because of many factors, money, schooling etc & life in general gets in the way

Sounds like your partner does not need you to be in NZ to gain his perm residency so let him come back and see how he gets on, you need to be thinking about your health, mental and physical to enable you to look after your baby as best you can and if that means you stay in the UK then so be it.
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Old Jan 10th 2020, 9:45 am
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Default Re: Dilemma 2020 - I want to leave NZ but my partner wants to stay 2020

A few questions.

One, what are the financial implications of the move? What are his projected earnings in the UK, what are yours, and how does that stack up to NZ?

Second, what are the legal implications of taking a child out of NZ, ie if you want to move back to the UK with the child does the father there have to give consent because it's a minor, and therefore can block it? In that case if you are sure you don't want to go back, since you are already in the UK maybe don't get on the plane.

Consult a lawyer to discuss options.
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Old Jan 10th 2020, 10:10 am
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Default Re: Dilemma 2020 - I want to leave NZ but my partner wants to stay 2020

Financially wise we would be on very similar wages in the UK plus I would have more flexibilty in my role also we would have a deposit for a house as not as much needed as NZ.

For him he has stated that he is going to New Zealand and that's final.
This screams to me now that the residency is more important than his family as there is no meet in the middle for anything.

I think maybe I need to be selfish for my own needs now as trying to me a team and work together doesn't seem to be working on his part.
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Old Jan 10th 2020, 11:12 am
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Default Re: Dilemma 2020 - I want to leave NZ but my partner wants to stay 2020

Originally Posted by Dilemma2020 View Post
Financially wise we would be on very similar wages in the UK plus I would have more flexibilty in my role also we would have a deposit for a house as not as much needed as NZ.

For him he has stated that he is going to New Zealand and that's final.
This screams to me now that the residency is more important than his family as there is no meet in the middle for anything.

I think maybe I need to be selfish for my own needs now as trying to me a team and work together doesn't seem to be working on his part.
I think you have arrived at the correct conclusion, you need to think for yourself and your child as he is evidently focused on doing his own thing !
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Old Jan 10th 2020, 11:13 am
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Default Re: Dilemma 2020 - I want to leave NZ but my partner wants to stay 2020

Originally Posted by Dilemma2020 View Post
I think maybe I need to be selfish for my own needs now as trying to me a team and work together doesn't seem to be working on his part.
But as above, will he give permission for you to remove his child from NZ? I'm assuming that if you just stay in the UK with the baby rather than returning next week he can't take any action, but you'd need to check that with a solicitor. If you return to NZ and are under jurisdiction there it's much tricker, you'd need his permission or a court order to take the baby back out of NZ. I think you need to try and get this sorted asap before you're due to return, otherwise you could find yourself stuck in NZ with the only way you can leave being to leave the child behind.

I'm sorry to hear you're so unhappy, having a baby is a very tough time and being so far away from friends/family can't be easy. I hope you can find a solution.

Last edited by christmasoompa; Jan 10th 2020 at 11:15 am.
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Old Jan 10th 2020, 8:03 pm
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Default Re: Dilemma 2020 - I want to leave NZ but my partner wants to stay 2020

I'm throwing something else into this conversation.

How is the British wife going to sponsor her husband for a spouse visa to live in the UK? Sounds like she does not work and we all know there are financial requirements to fulfill.

She is hoping that he will agree to living in the UK, but this might not be a goal she can achieve. This could lead her to think of other options.
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Old Jan 11th 2020, 7:55 am
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Default Re: Dilemma 2020 - I want to leave NZ but my partner wants to stay 2020

the baby has duel nationality, the father does not have a permanent visa to remain in NZ so taking/not returning the child to NZ may not be such a major problem??? (thinking out loud)
As stated speak to a family lawyer but I still stay dont return to NZ just yet as its just an added to cost if you then decide that you are not going to stay there.
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Old Jan 11th 2020, 11:15 am
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Default Re: Dilemma 2020 - I want to leave NZ but my partner wants to stay 2020

Originally Posted by Dilemma2020 View Post
Financially wise we would be on very similar wages in the UK plus I would have more flexibilty in my role also we would have a deposit for a house as not as much needed as NZ.

For him he has stated that he is going to New Zealand and that's final.
This screams to me now that the residency is more important than his family as there is no meet in the middle for anything.

I think maybe I need to be selfish for my own needs now as trying to me a team and work together doesn't seem to be working on his part.
I sympathise with your predicament.
However I am struggling with the concept of "not working as a team" meaning "he won't do what I want".
Teamwork goes both ways.

I also have some sympathy for his position.
He apparently has a clear route to obtaining NZ citizenship which is a very valuable thing. It gives him the long term right to live in NZ, and also to leave and then come back.
Conversely it is not clear that he will have the same guaranteed route to obtaining UK citizenship.
Even if such a route is available he is being asked to write off all the time he has invested in NZ and start again in the UK, with a partner who may not (with all due respect) provide long term stability.

Do what is in your own best interest.

However please don't try to blame your partner because you have changed your mind about your commitment to NZ shortly after starting a family.
You were committed (apparently) to becoming an NZ citizen. So much so that you married and started a family in NZ. Married another immigrant also working towards NZ citizenship.
You are now finding that you have an emotional need to be back in the UK near to your UK family, tied in with the emotions around having a child.

Have some thought for your partner who (as far as I can tell) married another potential Kiwi and started a family only to be told that his new family were now moving to another country and he was expected to follow or give up his child.
You have UK citizenship and family, which makes returning to the UK a very low risk.
As far as I can tell he has neither of these things which makes moving to the UK very high risk.
Immigrating to NZ may be a once in a lifetime chance for him. He appears to be under pressure to accept a far higher risk and to also give up far more than you, with no long term guarantees.

My personal very biased view is that you should tough it out for another couple of years until you both have citizenship and not make any irrevocable decisions until then.
At least your partner will then know that if it all goes horribly wrong he will have the option to return to NZ.
Who knows, with one major pressure removed he may then be happy to go with you to the UK, if you still want to go.

Those advising that the mother, who has flown to the UK as part of a family unit on a tourist visa for the partner (I assume) that they should stay in the UK with the child as it might be illegal to remove the child from NZ without the father's consent.
This might be a practical approach but suggesting flouting the law in NZ and denying the father his parental rights is not strictly a moral position.
In the UK we have situations from time to time where a father has taken (or retained) a UK child abroad without permission from the mother or the courts and there is general condemnation on behalf of the mother.
I personally think that more consideration should be given to the father's rights to the child. NZ is, I understand, very even handed in this as in many other things.
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Old Jan 11th 2020, 11:27 am
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Default Re: Dilemma 2020 - I want to leave NZ but my partner wants to stay 2020

He's shown he couldn't care less about his kids by leaving them in Brazil. Yours will be just another he doesn't see anymore.Stay in blighty, send him packing and start over.
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Old Jan 11th 2020, 2:01 pm
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Default Re: Dilemma 2020 - I want to leave NZ but my partner wants to stay 2020

Do not step one foot back onto NZ soil without consulting a lawyer and fully understanding the legal aspects of your situation. I would recommend finding one in the UK that has dealt with these types of issues specifically with NZ experience. The focus is actually on the habitual residence of the child, a lawyer can explain more around this.

Check out www.globalarrk.org to
learn about the situation you must avoid - getting stuck in NZ, and also the Hague Convention laws against child ‘abduction’ that come into play. This is a vicious outdated law that you must educate yourself about and protect yourself from. Globalarrk are UK based and have a list of recommended UK based lawyers to speak to - any consultation fee will be worth it.

Speaking from experience, being a ‘stuck’ single parent in NZ is horrific. Being stuck anywhere is horrible but NZ is one of the worst places to get stuck because it is isolated and the cost of living and travel is high. The NZ Family courts are anti-relocation of children, even within NZ. Very few win child relocation cases, even where there is proven physical violence and abuse.

NZers may be friendly, but there is no empathy for a foreigner in this situation. The ‘harden up’ mentality comes into play and this will impact your mental health and you will feel very alone and powerless against the NZ family legal system.

There are many stuck parents in NZ, mainly women. Many report suicidal feelings and all say the same about lack of support/understanding from Kiwis, from formal services, NZ lawyers and mental health services. “You chose to come here.....” etc.

Get legal advice......NOW! All the very best.
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