Damp and mould - Dom Post today.
Mar 2nd 2008, 7:35 am
#31
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Re: Damp and mould - Dom Post today.
Well, I would imagine a troll to live in a damp and mouldy place so you must have plenty of experience of dealing with them
Enjoy that kiwi winter now......
Enjoy that kiwi winter now......
Mar 2nd 2008, 8:16 am
#32
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Location: Beachlands, East Auckland
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Re: Damp and mould - Dom Post today.
We lived in a very cold rental for 18 months..... there was a log burner upstairs but it only heated the one room and every other room was very cold in the winter. The bedrooms were all downstairs and were so cold. The downstairs bathroom was so cold in the winter that Id have to wait til midday/afternoon to give my toddler a bath as it was just too cold to sit in there for me. I used to go outside to warm up... Im sure many know that feeling!
We bought our own house here and first of all got loft insulation put in. We then spent months looking at every possible way of heating the house. In the end we got a company in Auckland to agree to put in full Central Heating for us. We waited months for the boiler and rads to be shipped from Italy, finally they got all the parts they needed and installed it for us. They had never put in CH in NZ before, it was a first for them. It didnt go 100% smoothly I have to say but in the end the job was done and it works well. We enjoyed a warm house for the last few weeks of last winter, and very nice it was too!
We had always kept back $15k for the CH but it ended up being a bit more.
So it is possible to have CH put in here. I'm not moving from this house now its warm thats for sure!
So I agree, allow in your budget for some heating. If the sun doesnt shine on winter days it can get a bit cold....even up here in mild Auckland.
We bought our own house here and first of all got loft insulation put in. We then spent months looking at every possible way of heating the house. In the end we got a company in Auckland to agree to put in full Central Heating for us. We waited months for the boiler and rads to be shipped from Italy, finally they got all the parts they needed and installed it for us. They had never put in CH in NZ before, it was a first for them. It didnt go 100% smoothly I have to say but in the end the job was done and it works well. We enjoyed a warm house for the last few weeks of last winter, and very nice it was too!
We had always kept back $15k for the CH but it ended up being a bit more. So it is possible to have CH put in here. I'm not moving from this house now its warm thats for sure!
So I agree, allow in your budget for some heating. If the sun doesnt shine on winter days it can get a bit cold....even up here in mild Auckland.
Mar 2nd 2008, 9:44 pm
#33
Here in Dunedin
Joined: May 2003
Location: Dunedin
Posts: 1,975
Re: Damp and mould - Dom Post today.
- using a dehumidifying system (a cheap one or a DVS/Moisture Master system)
- some form of ventilation (opening the windows and doors once a day works wonders)
- reducing moisture build up (no hanging washing inside, venting your clothesdryer, putting a lid on your cooking)
I suspect for most NZ homes these are more practical measures than trying to emulate European housing styles.
Mar 3rd 2008, 12:32 am
#34
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,225
Re: Damp and mould - Dom Post today.
Depends if by "most NZ homes" you mean uninsulated, wooden frame and wooden clad houses? if so there's no way central heating or double glazing will help (no more than they would in the average UK garden shed)
Many people in NZ live in brick/masonary houses that are insulated to some extent - our house had both heating and double glazing, I'm happy to report that we never had any issues at all with condensation, or damp of any form.
It is possible to insulate wooden houses in NZ and installing double glazing and central heating would seem a sensible idea if adequate draught proofing and DPMs have been done.
Many people in NZ live in brick/masonary houses that are insulated to some extent - our house had both heating and double glazing, I'm happy to report that we never had any issues at all with condensation, or damp of any form.
It is possible to insulate wooden houses in NZ and installing double glazing and central heating would seem a sensible idea if adequate draught proofing and DPMs have been done.
Mar 3rd 2008, 4:37 am
#35
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Location: noisy land, it's still noisy & crazy wrong
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Re: Damp and mould - Dom Post today.
I understood that neither of those two things would really affect overall humidity. You might have fewer symptoms such as "crying windows", but actually reducing humidity relies on one of:
- using a dehumidifying system (a cheap one or a DVS/Moisture Master system)
- some form of ventilation (opening the windows and doors once a day works wonders)
- reducing moisture build up (no hanging washing inside, venting your clothesdryer, putting a lid on your cooking)
I suspect for most NZ homes these are more practical measures than trying to emulate European housing styles.
- using a dehumidifying system (a cheap one or a DVS/Moisture Master system)
- some form of ventilation (opening the windows and doors once a day works wonders)
- reducing moisture build up (no hanging washing inside, venting your clothesdryer, putting a lid on your cooking)
I suspect for most NZ homes these are more practical measures than trying to emulate European housing styles.
Open your windows and doors, the last thing you want to do on a freezing cold day in a freezing cold 'shed' OMG!I stayed with a friend for a while in Wellington and it was freezing in his '$500,000 two bedroom shed.'
He would leave his windows open and I could never understand why and I thought it impolite to ask-but now I know!
Seriously, why
Mar 3rd 2008, 6:41 am
#36
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 733
Re: Damp and mould - Dom Post today.
- classicI love that Open your windows and doors, the last thing you want to do on a freezing cold day in a freezing cold 'shed' OMG!
I stayed with a friend for a while in Wellington and it was freezing in his '$500,000 two bedroom shed.'
He would leave his windows open and I could never understand why and I thought it impolite to ask-but now I know!
Seriously, why
Open your windows and doors, the last thing you want to do on a freezing cold day in a freezing cold 'shed' OMG!I stayed with a friend for a while in Wellington and it was freezing in his '$500,000 two bedroom shed.'
He would leave his windows open and I could never understand why and I thought it impolite to ask-but now I know!
Seriously, why
Mar 3rd 2008, 8:04 am
#37
you dewty owld maan!
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: is practically perfect in every way
Posts: 5,565
Re: Damp and mould - Dom Post today.
For condensation to form requires
humidity (ie water vapour in the air)
and
a cold surface
Reducing heat losses from a surface by adequate thermal insulation (such as double glazing) will help, as will removing the humidity (or better the source of the water vapour - for example with penetrating damp then a broken downpipe or blocked gutter). The thermal bridges that promote condensation formation are replete in NZ housing stock with metal window frames, single glazing and poor insulation.
Dealing with the humidity "problem" is one way to solve the condensation/mould issue but better insulation and background heating (eg central heating) will also aleviate some of the worst effects.
Now whether this is cost effective or environmentally responsible (in the case of PVC-u profiles) is a whole different debate.
Building Research Establishement (who produce some good books on condensation remediation BTW) have done research on the DVS-type of system and their results are summarised here:
http://projects.bre.co.uk/positivevent/body.html
BTW, anyone aware of a NZS equivalent of:
BS 5250: Code of Practice for the control of condensation in buildings, 2002
can't seem to find one...........I wonder why??
humidity (ie water vapour in the air)
and
a cold surface
Reducing heat losses from a surface by adequate thermal insulation (such as double glazing) will help, as will removing the humidity (or better the source of the water vapour - for example with penetrating damp then a broken downpipe or blocked gutter). The thermal bridges that promote condensation formation are replete in NZ housing stock with metal window frames, single glazing and poor insulation.
Dealing with the humidity "problem" is one way to solve the condensation/mould issue but better insulation and background heating (eg central heating) will also aleviate some of the worst effects.
Now whether this is cost effective or environmentally responsible (in the case of PVC-u profiles) is a whole different debate.
Building Research Establishement (who produce some good books on condensation remediation BTW) have done research on the DVS-type of system and their results are summarised here:
http://projects.bre.co.uk/positivevent/body.html
BTW, anyone aware of a NZS equivalent of:
BS 5250: Code of Practice for the control of condensation in buildings, 2002
can't seem to find one...........I wonder why??
Mar 3rd 2008, 8:13 am
#38
Here in Dunedin
Joined: May 2003
Location: Dunedin
Posts: 1,975
Re: Damp and mould - Dom Post today.
I love that Open your windows and doors, the last thing you want to do on a freezing cold day in a freezing cold 'shed' OMG!
I stayed with a friend for a while in Wellington and it was freezing in his '$500,000 two bedroom shed.'
He would leave his windows open and I could never understand why and I thought it impolite to ask-but now I know!
Seriously, why
Open your windows and doors, the last thing you want to do on a freezing cold day in a freezing cold 'shed' OMG!I stayed with a friend for a while in Wellington and it was freezing in his '$500,000 two bedroom shed.'
He would leave his windows open and I could never understand why and I thought it impolite to ask-but now I know!
Seriously, why
Mind you - if you live in a shed then that may be a different thing..
Mar 3rd 2008, 8:53 am
#39
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Joined: Jun 2003
Location: North of Auckland
Posts: 1,996
Re: Damp and mould - Dom Post today.
Article in today's Dominion Post likening NZ's damp and mould levels in the housing stock to levels found in Palestinian Refugee Camps...makes you think???
It also highlights the ignorance level about the mould and damp contributing to NZ's exceptionally high asthma rate.
One word to anyone not here yet: central heating, central heating, central heating.
It also highlights the ignorance level about the mould and damp contributing to NZ's exceptionally high asthma rate.
One word to anyone not here yet: central heating, central heating, central heating.
Mar 3rd 2008, 8:53 am
#40
you dewty owld maan!
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: is practically perfect in every way
Posts: 5,565
Re: Damp and mould - Dom Post today.
Actually, my local physics professor who specialises in thermal energy and building design swears by this method. He has humidity guages inside and outside his house, and the most effective method is to open the doors for about 2-3 minutes during the warmest part of the day. It only takes one flushing of the air every 24 hours to avoid the worst effects of humidity.
Mind you - if you live in a shed then that may be a different thing..
Mind you - if you live in a shed then that may be a different thing..
Mar 3rd 2008, 8:54 am
#41
Banned
Joined: Jun 2003
Location: North of Auckland
Posts: 1,996
Re: Damp and mould - Dom Post today.
Actually, my local physics professor who specialises in thermal energy and building design swears by this method. He has humidity guages inside and outside his house, and the most effective method is to open the doors for about 2-3 minutes during the warmest part of the day. It only takes one flushing of the air every 24 hours to avoid the worst effects of humidity.
Mind you - if you live in a shed then that may be a different thing..
Mind you - if you live in a shed then that may be a different thing..
Sounds totally efficient
Do the doors get pulled in winter and rain with No 8 wire ?
Sweet as
Mar 3rd 2008, 8:59 am
#42
you dewty owld maan!
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: is practically perfect in every way
Posts: 5,565
Re: Damp and mould - Dom Post today.
Also it ain't gonna work too well in the middle of winter when it is better to use an efficient heating system to get the moisture mobilised and then chuck it out via some extract fans, making sure that the make-up air is reasonably dry and warm!!
Mar 3rd 2008, 9:00 am
#43
Banned
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Location: North of Auckland
Posts: 1,996
Re: Damp and mould - Dom Post today.
Article in today's Dominion Post likening NZ's damp and mould levels in the housing stock to levels found in Palestinian Refugee Camps...makes you think???
It also highlights the ignorance level about the mould and damp contributing to NZ's exceptionally high asthma rate.
One word to anyone not here yet: central heating, central heating, central heating.
It also highlights the ignorance level about the mould and damp contributing to NZ's exceptionally high asthma rate.
One word to anyone not here yet: central heating, central heating, central heating.
ignorance level
Mar 3rd 2008, 9:10 am
#44
Banned
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Location: North of Auckland
Posts: 1,996
Re: Damp and mould - Dom Post today.
not sure how to begin my reply here. of course i havent experienced a winter here so maybe not in a position to comment.
BUT newspaper articles are meant to be damning - thats what helps the newspaper sell.
And a comment like this I feel is bit of an over generalisation.
Would I be wrong in assuming that the better quality housing (for instance in areas of better standards of living) are of a better build, have been looked after and maintained and as such will not experience these levels of mould and damp to the extent the article suggests. As a rule the better quality housing are in the more desirable areas, with sun?
Now the areas that are less desirable, are poorer areas, have poorly maintained houses and are GENERALLY situated in the the valleys, damper areas. (i can only comment on wellington as thats all i know). These houses dont get to see the sun all day and consequently have all these issues the article suggests.
So you see FORTUNATELY FOR US the majority of uk expats will be able to purchase a house in a better area and are unlikely to suffer these extremes of mould and damp that you suggest. And as long as we all realise that then this article is all but scaremongering.
I admit i dont have all the facts or the experience - I am just trying to apply a bit of logic to it.
I also accept the benefits of having a dehumidifier -we will be purchasing one soon. That almost contradicts what I have just said. The only mould we have in our house is in the shower because previous owner never opened her windows, so we need to strip that down. One thing i checked for was evidence of mould 'dust' collecting in the corner of the windows where you get condensation - I found nothing like that.
BEfore I came out here I had these worries (because of threads like this) that we would be living in houses knee deep in water. I just want people to know it doesnt have to be like that. Our house was surveyed and had excellent moisture tests.
Just apply a bit of common sense when you buy your house out here. Dont buy one in amongst bush, aim for one that wont be in shadow the winter months, and is north facing maximising sun.
BUT newspaper articles are meant to be damning - thats what helps the newspaper sell.
And a comment like this I feel is bit of an over generalisation.
Would I be wrong in assuming that the better quality housing (for instance in areas of better standards of living) are of a better build, have been looked after and maintained and as such will not experience these levels of mould and damp to the extent the article suggests. As a rule the better quality housing are in the more desirable areas, with sun?
Now the areas that are less desirable, are poorer areas, have poorly maintained houses and are GENERALLY situated in the the valleys, damper areas. (i can only comment on wellington as thats all i know). These houses dont get to see the sun all day and consequently have all these issues the article suggests.
So you see FORTUNATELY FOR US the majority of uk expats will be able to purchase a house in a better area and are unlikely to suffer these extremes of mould and damp that you suggest. And as long as we all realise that then this article is all but scaremongering.
I admit i dont have all the facts or the experience - I am just trying to apply a bit of logic to it.
I also accept the benefits of having a dehumidifier -we will be purchasing one soon. That almost contradicts what I have just said. The only mould we have in our house is in the shower because previous owner never opened her windows, so we need to strip that down. One thing i checked for was evidence of mould 'dust' collecting in the corner of the windows where you get condensation - I found nothing like that.
BEfore I came out here I had these worries (because of threads like this) that we would be living in houses knee deep in water. I just want people to know it doesnt have to be like that. Our house was surveyed and had excellent moisture tests.
Just apply a bit of common sense when you buy your house out here. Dont buy one in amongst bush, aim for one that wont be in shadow the winter months, and is north facing maximising sun.
Try explaining that one to the builders here
It is more like the lack of both are the real problem
You ever heard of leaky home syndrome?
I never did prior to NZ
We live in a house that is nearly 4 years old, valued at around 620k and it damp, we do not live in a valley blah blah.
We do live in New Zealand and experience the weather when it rains for four weeks you had better have a good de-humidifier going and they aint cheap to run.
Mar 3rd 2008, 9:15 am
#45
you dewty owld maan!
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: is practically perfect in every way
Posts: 5,565
Re: Damp and mould - Dom Post today.
Hey soupy,
damp is a problem in the UK too.....1 million homes or somehing like that, with health problems due to black mould....
just look at the BRE site and you will see the issues are being wrestled with in UK too.
having seen modrn timber construction going on in the UK with plastic facings to buildings and large voids around I'd not be suprised that interstitial damp is gonna hit a lot of those places hard in a few years, never mind the issues of fire spread up down and along the voids in the all the walls (if they stay dry of course!).
damp is a problem in the UK too.....1 million homes or somehing like that, with health problems due to black mould....
just look at the BRE site and you will see the issues are being wrestled with in UK too.
having seen modrn timber construction going on in the UK with plastic facings to buildings and large voids around I'd not be suprised that interstitial damp is gonna hit a lot of those places hard in a few years, never mind the issues of fire spread up down and along the voids in the all the walls (if they stay dry of course!).