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Crime rate. Quite a long post, be warned.

Crime rate. Quite a long post, be warned.

Old Oct 18th 2005, 9:35 am
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Default Crime rate. Quite a long post, be warned.

Hi,
I keep reading in posts lines like "don't be using rose tinted spectacles because crime in NZ is on the rise”.

So, just how bad is the crime and what form does it take?

Example: in the last 2 weeks within a 15-mile radius of where I live there have been at least 6 shootings mainly drug or gang related. Shooting is now that common that only the ones where someone is killed or badly injured makes the local news.
Since the Labour party banned legally owned and licensed guns, gun crime in the UK has increased way over 1000%; we now have drive-by shootings, one happened last year within a mile of where I live (and I live in one of the better areas). Carrying a gun is now considered by many young people as a fashion accessory, one Manchester gang member being interviewed on the television a few weeks ago said “the more guns you possess the more respect you command and the more power you have”, apparently he had over a dozen. Manchester earned it new name of Gunchester some time ago, Liverpool doesn’t seem to be quite as bad, on the gun front anyway.

There are always at least 5 accounts of violent crime in the weekly local paper.
At least 2 people per week are beaten up and hospitalized by gangs of teenagers just to steal their mobile phones, or designer trainers.
Weekly accounts of people of all ages (including an 80 year old woman) being beaten up by gangs of youths “just for a laugh”.
Mindless vandalism is now so common as to be considered normal.
No self-respecting person is safe to walk the town centre after dark (on Friday or Saturday especially), on Saturday or Sunday morning round town you have to step around the sea of broken bottles and blood, pools of vomit and piles of chips and kebabs just thrown on the ground.
Using public transport at night is a no-go area.
“Road Rage” incidents are rife and getting more violent.
The above is just the level of violent crime.

Cars are being constantly stolen for “joy riding” or damaged by mindless wandering bands of Chavs (more of them later), if you have a reasonably powerful car it will be targeted to be stolen for use in robberies as a getaway vehicle, if you car is powerful and expensive it will be targeted for stealing to be broken down into parts and sold or to be shipped out of the country.

You have to have an alarm (visible) on your house or you will get burgled.
You really need movement detecting security lights all around your property.

The most alarming and appalling thing I read in the last 12 months was that when interviewed, 4 out of 10 eight year old children said they have taken some kind of illegal street drugs, 8 out of 10 of them had been offered drugs and over half of them regularly drank alcohol while “out playing” with their friends. I have a 6 year old and I find this prospect rather frightening, we both watch him like a hawk when he is out playing and he is never allowed out of sight of the house.

There is also no police presence on the streets at all, they are only seen in town centers at night to marshal the drunks and sweep up after the fights.

This is the latest thing that we are being subjected to all over the UK, Chavs:
http://www.chavscum.co.uk/
These scum have a neat little trick called “happy slapping” by which a gang of them beat some innocent person senseless and one of them videos it on his/her mobile then it gets sent to all their mates so they can have a good laugh(!!), very prevalent in schools.

I have only just scratched the surface, there is a lot more I could write on this subject i.e. the new anti-terrorism laws etc, but this will do for now.

So could someone give me an overview of just how bad the crime rate is in NZ please?
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Old Oct 18th 2005, 10:47 am
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Default Re: Crime rate. Quite a long post, be warned.

Just going back about 3 or 4 years when I was living in NZ..there were 9 murders in 7 days..

Then when I was over there a few months ago, some bloke tried to run me off the road because he didnt like the fact that I filtered into the traffic before him even though I was in front of him anyway..scared the crap out of me. He literally drove his car at me on the motorway. Now I now we have road rage in the UK, but I swear to God it is worse in NZ.

I have only had 1 car broken into and that was in NZ. I have owned cars in NZ, OZ and UK.

Drugs are quite a problem in NZ.. P seems to be a big problem at the moment.

Saying all that though, I still love the place and it wont stop me going there..
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Old Oct 18th 2005, 2:00 pm
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Default Re: Crime rate. Quite a long post, be warned.

Hi, Thanks for the reply.
Originally Posted by Carkedit
Drugs are quite a problem in NZ.. P seems to be a big problem at the moment.
What exactly is P ?
Heard about people being murdered in Oz, haven't heard about any in NZ though.

Found this site that calculates crime rates.
http://www.nationmaster.com/
This is interesting for comparison, but it only gives recorded and reported crimes.
http://www.nationmaster.com/country/nz/Crime
http://www.nationmaster.com/country/uk/Crime
http://www.nationmaster.com/country/as/Crime
In the UK most people I know don't report crimes because the police very rarely bother to turn up, if they can't make money out of it and end up having to do loads of paperwork then they don't bother (my wifes sister works for them in a civilian capacity so I know this to be true). When my brother-in-law got burgled, it took SOCO 5 days to get there and they were told to touch nothing until they had been, no way you can live in a ransacked house for a week and not touch anything.
My late mothers next-door neighbours son was severely beaten up on his way home from work and the cops took 6 days to turn up! So people have stopped reporting crimes 'cause nothing is ever done about it hence the lower crime figures and higher figures for solved crimes. I have had cars broken into and stolen, so had my father when he was alive, nothing was ever recovered, no one was ever caught or prosecuted, the police (when and if) they turn up made you feel like the criminal so what the hell is the point of reporting it? A guy broke into my friends house at 0200hrs one morning and my friend caught him and gave him a bit of a slapping told him to sit on the floor and not move then called the cops. My friend got done for assault and holding someone against his will and the rat-boy burglar wasn't even charged and didn't have to pay for the damage he had caused to my friends property, another good example of British Justice.
Drugs are freely available on any street corner, I know who is selling them so why don't the cops know and do something about it, they even have CCTV to help them.
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Old Oct 18th 2005, 2:00 pm
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Default Re: Crime rate. Quite a long post, be warned.

This got posted twice for some reason? So I have deleted the text from this one.

Last edited by Tech21; Oct 18th 2005 at 2:02 pm.
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Old Oct 18th 2005, 5:08 pm
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Default Re: Crime rate. Quite a long post, be warned.

Originally Posted by Tech21
Hi, Thanks for the reply.
What exactly is P ?
Heard about people being murdered in Oz, haven't heard about any in NZ though.

Found this site that calculates crime rates.
http://www.nationmaster.com/
This is interesting for comparison, but it only gives recorded and reported crimes.
http://www.nationmaster.com/country/nz/Crime
http://www.nationmaster.com/country/uk/Crime
http://www.nationmaster.com/country/as/Crime
In the UK most people I know don't report crimes because the police very rarely bother to turn up, if they can't make money out of it and end up having to do loads of paperwork then they don't bother (my wifes sister works for them in a civilian capacity so I know this to be true). When my brother-in-law got burgled, it took SOCO 5 days to get there and they were told to touch nothing until they had been, no way you can live in a ransacked house for a week and not touch anything.
My late mothers next-door neighbours son was severely beaten up on his way home from work and the cops took 6 days to turn up! So people have stopped reporting crimes 'cause nothing is ever done about it hence the lower crime figures and higher figures for solved crimes. I have had cars broken into and stolen, so had my father when he was alive, nothing was ever recovered, no one was ever caught or prosecuted, the police (when and if) they turn up made you feel like the criminal so what the hell is the point of reporting it? A guy broke into my friends house at 0200hrs one morning and my friend caught him and gave him a bit of a slapping told him to sit on the floor and not move then called the cops. My friend got done for assault and holding someone against his will and the rat-boy burglar wasn't even charged and didn't have to pay for the damage he had caused to my friends property, another good example of British Justice.
Drugs are freely available on any street corner, I know who is selling them so why don't the cops know and do something about it, they even have CCTV to help them.
P is pure methamphetamine. It seems to be the drug of choice at the moment. There was a case last year I think it was where a man killed his kid and then stepped out into traffic while high on P. Another well known case was Antonie Dixon who was high on P and then grabbed a samuri sword and went around slicing peoples hands off.

Everyone seems to think NZ is this little idyllic island that has low crime. Its just a case that you never hear about the crimes that HAVE happened if you live overseas as its not as big news as if it happened in OZ or USA. I still dont think crime is as bad as in the UK though, although I guess if the population was the same it probably would be. The other week a German backpacker was attacked and murdered when hitch hiking. No-one in their right mind should hitch hike but NZ does give off the impression that its safe.

I found there is a huge amount of racism in NZ. Maori v Pakeha v Islanders v Asians...everyone blames everyone else for crimes, bad driving etc etc. Again this is world wide. I lived in Jersey and the Portuguese were blamed for all the crime there.

I agree with not bothering in reporting crime..its pointless half the time unless you want to make an insurance claim as the police are just not interested or its not a high priority to them.

I think the law concerning people breaking into your house and then you getting charged for defending yourself/house is absolutely bloody ridiculous. Its basically telling criminals to go for their lives in breaking into a house as the owner will more than likely be the ones going to jail.

Are you planning on moving to NZ?
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Old Oct 18th 2005, 7:19 pm
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Default Re: Crime rate. Quite a long post, be warned.

Population wise the crime is just as bad here, just in proportion to the population that's all.
Car crime is here, murders are here, folk do get beaten up in the city streets here too, child abuse happens here, druggies all over the shop, I'm having severe problems with my eldest son right now because of the drugs here.
First thing I noticed on a very early morning walk around Christchurch when we first arrived was all the smashed glass everywhere.

I did the old seeing everything that was bad in the UK before I came too, because you want to reassure yourselves that moving to the other side of the planet will be beneficial to you.
It is lovely here but it's not paradise, we won't be returning to the UK though thats for sure but we lived in a huge city there ... I suppose if we'd lived somewhere more beautiful like Devon or some places in Scotland we might not have even thought about emigration.

When are you planning on coming over here?
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Old Oct 19th 2005, 5:46 am
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Default Re: Crime rate. Quite a long post, be warned.

Wherever there are people, there'll be crime.
No getting away from that is there?
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Old Oct 19th 2005, 10:45 am
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Default Re: Crime rate. Quite a long post, be warned.

Originally Posted by sky
Car crime is here, murders are here, folk do get beaten up in the city streets here too, child abuse happens here, druggies all over the shop, I'm having severe problems with my eldest son right now because of the drugs here.
First thing I noticed on a very early morning walk around Christchurch when we first arrived was all the smashed glass everywhere.
We were, and I now stress the word “were”, thinking of moving over ASAP probably to the north end of South Island definitely not Auckland or any large city.
We are looking to move away from all the crime and violence that is going on in the UK as we do not want to bring our 6 year old up in the unsafe, self centered, crime riddled, gang driven drug and gun culture that is now taking over the UK, and the cops are doing nothing about it. May be most are on back-handers from the pimps and pushers who knows, but one thing’s for sure they are doing zero about it.
The crime figure for a low populated place like NZ are very alarming. Where is the crime concentrated? Is it around Auckland and the cities? Mainly North Island? In some instances the NZ figure look worse than the USA figures and nearly all the NZ stats are worse than the UK stats some of them more than 3 times as high! I do find this very hard to believe that NZ is a worse and more crime riddled place than the UK is at present. There are more people living in Merseyside 1.37 million (10 miles West of Warrington), Grt Manchester 2.49 million (10 miles East of Warrington) and Warrington 200,000 than live in the whole of NZ so I do find this higher crime rate a bit of a mystery.
If you look at the Crime figures for Scotland you probably wouldn’t go there they are very high but 99% of it is from Glasgow and the other Cities, north of Lock Lomond there is virtually no crime at all, people leave doors open and don’t lock cars.
But if it really is that bad in NZ then we will not be moving over, we shall look else where.
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Old Oct 19th 2005, 11:12 am
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Default Re: Crime rate. Quite a long post, be warned.

[QUOTE=Tech21]We are looking to move away from all the crime and violence that is going on in the UK as we do not want to bring our 6 year old up in the unsafe, self centered, crime riddled, gang driven drug and gun culture that is now taking over the ...[/QUOTE

I am not one to labour over statistics such as these, but thought that on a per capita basis the crime in NZ wasn't any worse than it is in the UK. Do you know otherwise?

Also, I would say that like everywhere, you cannot generalise about the UK. I live in the South-East and have left windows, doors, cars open/unlocked on many occasions quite happily. Also generally feel safe. Family in the Lake District always leave their houses open, this appears to be the norm.

Inner cities late at night are the same the world over. However I don't believe NZ has the same obsession with being drunk to the state of passing out comas (see Daily Mail yesterday re: Bristol) and yob culture that is evident in the UK, albeit personally I've never seen it and I have not led some kind of warped sheltered life either. So not sure where you're living, but there are some very pleasant safe areas in the UK that may suit you. Just need to avoid the big cities and awful housing estates.

Personally I think NZ is probably a bit safer overall, although I don't think this should be the main reason to move out of the UK since you don't need to go that far unless you want to. If I had a son I would be much much more worried about them being able to drive at 15 in NZ!
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Old Oct 19th 2005, 12:31 pm
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Default Re: Crime rate. Quite a long post, be warned.

Originally Posted by uk+kiwi
So not sure where you're living, but there are some very pleasant safe areas in the UK that may suit you. Just need to avoid the big cities and awful housing estates.
I live on the outskirts of Warrington, Cheshire. I don't live in the centre and I certainly don't live on an awful housing estate but it doesn't stop the roaming bands of youths from wandering around drunk and shouting and swearing at 2.00am as now most of them drive from their council estates to decent places "just for a laugh", and the problem I always come back to is that there are NO POLICE ON THE STREETS to do anything about it!
They ride round on untaxed and uninsured motorbikes through parkland where there are people with children on push bikes and in prams and I have phoned the police on many occasions about them and they won't even come out to the area with out you giving them the registration number of the motorbike in question and when you say it doesn’t have any plates on it they say that without the registration there is nothing they can do and won't come out even when these people are putting children’s lives at risk, I don’t take my son out on his bike in the parks any more its too dangerous.

Not every one can live where they would like, I wouldn't mind living in the Lake District or around the Trough of Boland or on Arran but there is a little matter of a job and all the nice areas have no work unless you are a producer of arts and crafts for the tourists and as we don't have enough money in the bank to live off for the rest of our lives so one of us at least has to work.

NZ appears to have just what we were looking for but the crime figures worry me quite a lot.

This is why I am trying to establish if the majority of the crime that these figure relate to is in the cities or is evenly spread through the islands, are the figures like Scotland which has a very high crime rate but the 200 miles north of Helensborough up to Wick is virtually crime free?

And also do you ever see cops and cop cars patrolling the streets because it doesn’t happen where I am anymore, up to 15 years ago there were always cop cars patrolling the streets and we had our own community policeman who patrolled on his pushbike but that has all gone and the yobs are moving in.

When I was a kid in Warrington, there were always policemen on the beat, children were civil and polite to grown ups but now there appears to be no respect, I recently heard a 9 year old (looked 9 anyway), in earshot of his mother, tell a 90 year old woman to f-off back in yer house you f-ing old cow and his mother heard it and did nothing about it, the dispute appeared to be over a football that had been kicked into her garden. If I heard my son say that to some one I would kill him (but of course in the UK now you are not allowed to touch your children or you can be sent to jail..just got to love this country and its laws). All of my friends who are teachers will now not teach in the UK and they all teach aboard because there is no discipline in UK schools because the teaches are not allowed to do anything to enforce it so 1 unruly pupil can affect a whole class and the teachers can't do anything about it if they tell the pupil to leave the classroom and they say no then the teacher can't even remove them him self as touching the pupil is classed as assault so they just stay there and disrupt the class for every one, no one learns anything and this is now the stare of the education system in the UK.
Private schools are a real but expensive alternative but not every one can afford.

There has to be somewhere better than this country somewhere in the world, I did think that NZ was but now I am having serious doubts. The other stuff I can live with, lower salary etc but if the country is no safer for children than the UK then I need to re-think the whole deal.
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Old Oct 19th 2005, 12:58 pm
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Default Re: Crime rate. Quite a long post, be warned.

Originally Posted by Tech21
We were, and I now stress the word “were”, thinking of moving over ASAP probably to the north end of South Island definitely not Auckland or any large city.
But if it really is that bad in NZ then we will not be moving over, we shall look else where.

Obviously crime happens everywhere as I have posted lots of time the things that have happened in the UK to my boys. We live in one of the nicest parts of town but Nottingham has some pretty dodgy areas and those kids tend to come to us to do their petty crime and drug selling.
A lot of the crime is centered around Auckland but not only restricted to that area. We are from Wellington and apart from having a burgular chased through are back yard (by the police) we never had any trouble. My oldest son is returning to Welly to atend UNI (a trip back in Feb convinced him that is where he would rather be) He said that his friends in NZ went out to have fun and not just to get pissed and have a punch up.
I guess just to finish we have encountered far more youth and adult agression and crime in the UK then we ever encounted in NZ.
But hey! Think I'm on a roll this year non of the students have told me to 'f**k of and die yet, I'm doing well!
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Old Oct 19th 2005, 12:59 pm
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Default Re: Crime rate. Quite a long post, be warned.

Originally Posted by Tech21
I live on the outskirts of Warrington, Cheshire.
Doesn't sound good at all I must admit where you live. I used to travel to Warrington a lot to visit clients, and it always struck me as a very industrial place. That may of course just be since I spent my time in the industrial areas. But I just wanted to point out that everything you mention in your post is not the UK I am experiencing in the slightest, it could be a completely different country. I'm only trying to say this so you are aware that the UK is not all like you described at all and so the answer to your desires may be closer (& cheaper) than you have thought. So yes there are loads of police where I live - far too many - spending taxpayer's money giving out speeding tickets!

There are plenty of jobs in the Lake District unless you are very specialised, although that is no longer where I live incidentally. I am now in Surrey, commuter zone for London. Husband works ridiculously long hours for not very much pay in London (same as my family in the Lake District whose houses & living expenses are a fraction of ours), has far too long out the house every day (leaves at 5.45am!), but we live in a village with great people, fantastic schools and lots of countryside on the doorstep. In fact I think our village came out within the top 5 places to live in the country (can't remember which daily paper did the survey) but unless you are rich, you do pay for the priviledge of living here big time. We would be so much better off up North it's ridiculous, but then the accents & weather puts us off a lot lol! .

Anyhow we don't have any money left at the end of the month, no meals out, fancy haircuts or holidays etc etc, but the kids are polite and well educated. Our choice completely. And we are happy with it. So just move down here! There are loads of jobs, but the houses cost a fortune so it wouldn't surprise me one bit if you were worse off financially, although I know you mentioned that this could well be the case if you went to NZ.

Personally I appreciate having such choices in life though and do try to count my blessings on a daily basis!

Last edited by uk+kiwi; Oct 19th 2005 at 1:06 pm.
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Old Oct 19th 2005, 1:52 pm
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Default Re: Crime rate. Quite a long post, be warned.

Originally Posted by Tech21
We were, and I now stress the word “were”, thinking of moving over ASAP probably to the north end of South Island definitely not Auckland or any large city.
We are looking to move away from all the crime and violence that is going on in the UK as we do not want to bring our 6 year old up in the unsafe, self centered, crime riddled, gang driven drug and gun culture that is now taking over the UK, and the cops are doing nothing about it. May be most are on back-handers from the pimps and pushers who knows, but one thing’s for sure they are doing zero about it.
The crime figure for a low populated place like NZ are very alarming. Where is the crime concentrated? Is it around Auckland and the cities? Mainly North Island? In some instances the NZ figure look worse than the USA figures and nearly all the NZ stats are worse than the UK stats some of them more than 3 times as high! I do find this very hard to believe that NZ is a worse and more crime riddled place than the UK is at present. There are more people living in Merseyside 1.37 million (10 miles West of Warrington), Grt Manchester 2.49 million (10 miles East of Warrington) and Warrington 200,000 than live in the whole of NZ so I do find this higher crime rate a bit of a mystery.
If you look at the Crime figures for Scotland you probably wouldn’t go there they are very high but 99% of it is from Glasgow and the other Cities, north of Lock Lomond there is virtually no crime at all, people leave doors open and don’t lock cars.
But if it really is that bad in NZ then we will not be moving over, we shall look else where.
Move to Portsmouth there is no crime / rascism excellent football .....it is paradise on Earth..........trouble is Tony Blair is still Prime minister of Portsmouth

PS these are rose tinted glasses that i am wearing
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Old Oct 19th 2005, 2:07 pm
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Default Re: Crime rate. Quite a long post, be warned.

Here a link to todays NZ news on Google - you'll see there's still plenty of crime over here.

http://news.google.co.nz/nwshp?tab=wn&ned=nz&topic=n
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Old Oct 19th 2005, 8:13 pm
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Default Re: Crime rate. Quite a long post, be warned.

Originally Posted by Carkedit
There was a case last year I think it was where a man killed his kid and then stepped out into traffic while high on P.
Yep, there was. I nearly stopped for him to see if he needed any help cos he was stood with his bonnet up looking confused as I drove past. I decided not to in the end, something about it just didn't feel right, and I guess it was probably one of the better decisions I ever made...

As for the whole crime thing, here it is:

According to the statistics NZ site (www.stats.govt.nz):

"The recorded offence rate rose steadily from 55 per 1,000 population in 1970 to an all-time peak of 132 per 1,000 population in 1992. This rise may be due to a real change in the volume of crime in New Zealand, to changes in recording practices, or to a combination of the two. The offence rate remained fairly steady between 1992 and 1996, before decreasing to 111 per 1,000 population in 2000. However, it remained higher than it was at any stage prior to 1984."

In the UK (according to www.statistics.gov.uk):

"The rate of notifiable offences per 1,000 population in England and Wales tripled between 1971 and 1992, when it reached 109. It then decreased steadily to 86 in 1998-99, as measured under the ‘old’ counting rules."

So, in conclusion:

1. There's crime everywhere, worldwide.
2. The figures are similar for NZ and the UK when population size is negated by using the per 1000 stats.
3. I don't know what the 'old' counting rules were in the UK one.
4. I don't know if these two sets of statistics are even apples and apples in terms of what they count and what they don't (I don't have time to look right now).
5. I suspect that they aren't and I suspect that the instances of violent and/or armed crime are much much higher in the UK.

However, perception is a whole different ballgame. As many people have already said, the perception here is that it's safer here for kids, etc etc. And they're right. I wouldn't think twice about walking down a darkened street or catching a nightbus here, we've (accidentally) left the door to the house wide open all day and come home to miraculously find that everything's still there. Same goes for the car and the garage... Security on most houses here is laughable, single-glazed windows, ranch sliders that can be lifted off the runners, etc etc.

I feel that it's safer here than it is in the UK but the stats say that it isn't. Maybe I live in a nice area but I know that when I go to the mountain to go boarding, we can leave all our stuff in the car while we ride and it's all still there when we come to go home again. I know that I don't feel threatened by gangs of youths or by people that I think are going to mug me.

Admittedly, walking down the road towards people that look a bit dodgy sometimes, I do feel my fists clenching and my eyes scanning for places to run if it came to that and moving my rucksack to the other shoulder or whatever but then I guess that's what comes from having lived in London for you. It usually takes me a second or two to realise that i'm being a dumbass and that this is NZ, not Beirut and I feel like a bit of a fool.
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