Woodpigeon

Yes they were international tertiary students, so not minors.

Sorry, I rambled and missed out the point that I was wanting to make

With the student whose application was declined because he hadn't declared his most recent conviction, his 'defence' was that since at the time he submitted his application to INZ he was waiting to go to court, and hadn't been convicted at that time he didn't think he needed to declare it. The conviction happened whilst INZ were processing his application, and they found out about it, hence they declined him for not declaring that he had, at the time of application, been charged with an offence.

BEVS

Good post Woodpigeon. Some information based on factual experience.

simonsi

Didn´t intend to mean you would deliberately do that, more referring to the catch-22 circumstances would push you towards with the permits expiring before the court process would complete.

I would push to renew YOUR permits in any case, even if, worst case, you wouldn´t stay if her case had a poor outcome. It would then be more straightforward for her to remain (if it came to that), on a visitors visa rather than you unable to work and heaping worry on worry.

I also don´t think she can be summoned to court without charge(s) being formally laid. For charge(s) to be laid against a minor I would expect her lawyer or guardian would have to be present so if you are at all unsure if she has been charged then check that out. Many cases fall on failure to follow correct process.

simonsi

A diversion involves an admission of guilt and hence may be taken as such by NZIS, as with receiving a caution in the UK. JAJ has correctly guided that professional immigration advice should be sought before any plea of guilty is entered. OP states she will defend the case and plead not guilty so this option may not be available in any case.

Treyarna

Thanks for all your reply's guys....

We went see immigration to explain things & get their views on it but couldn't get past the front desk as they wouldn't let us speak to an advisor until we had our renewal forms in. We were told just to send in our renewal forms with a covering note & they will make their decission. So I guess whatever will be will be, I hate to think of it like that but I don't think I've got much option....

Theyes

I really hope that it all goes well for you

Tina

p.s. Know i'm in Australia but i read the NZ forums

Treyarna

Thanks Tina

BEVS

I took it that this young lady had already stated she was not guilty at the status hearings , hence the date set for a defended hearing.

What happened to the other youngsters in the car and in particular, the lad that nicked his parents car, out of interest.

Pretty poor show that you couldn't get to speak with someone at NZIS. I'm not impressed at all.

I take it you will mitigate for your daughter at the hearing and also present good character refs from her school etc. I know that it is possible to do this through a friend of mine.

simonsi

Yes but there seemed some doubt as to the position re formal charges - which must precede a plea AFAIK.

I was trying to be less blunt but ended up a bit vague I think

Treyarna

I have to give evidence at the hearing anyway as the lad has made something else up but I know that part wasn't true because it involves my house & I was there all day (can't say anymore than that at this point that needs to be done in court). Character refs are already on their way to me also have her school reports if they need them.

Treyarna

Thank you both

BEVS

Karma for giving me a giggle .

BEVS

Find out. Ask the parents.

Quote:

The police only took notes from the lad my daughter knew more, no statement from my daughter & yet multiple statements from the other lad.

Mention that in court or have the duty lawyer do so. I'm sure you will.

Treyarna

Hi all,

I thought I would just update this thread & let you know how things turned out.....

We put in our visa renewal forms with immigration with a cover note detailing our daughters situation, we all got our visa’s straight away except for our daughters who they said they needed to wait for more details to be able to process hers fully, they never told us what details exactly but it seemed like they were waiting for the outcome of the court case.

We went to the court hearing which proved very interesting. The son (the boy who stole the car) admitted our daughter had no idea the car had been taken without consent until after he was already driving. The dad (owner of the car) of the boy who had taken the car was asked to give evidence & said that our daughter would have been unable to get out of the car until she was let out as it had child locks enabled which confirmed what our daughter had said all along.

So the judge totally dismissed the charge of unlawfully gets into a motor vehicle as he said it was clear that she didn’t know it was stolen when she got into it & got out as soon as it was stationery (when the other boy involved opened the door from the outside & let her out).

So they moved on to the second charge of arson. Our daughter’s lawyer (a lovely lady) noticed that the police had failed to disclose some of their notebook entries & asked the judge for them to be disclosed, which he agreed to. We couldn’t believe what they showed....there had been a witness to the whole thing from when the car had stopped to after it was set on fire it was the person who called the fire brigade. The court took a break for lunch.

Our lawyer phoned the witness who was adamant that after the others walked away from the car no one else approached the car only one boy & the description matched the boy who had stolen the car. The witness said they had been very clear on this to the police (on the day of the incident) & had said they were happy to appear in court. Back in court our lawyer pointed all this out...the judge wasn’t happy he adjourned the case & said the police had to go back & see the witness & take a proper statement. The police said it was a simple error on their part. The witness again confirmed our daughter was definitely not involved & the police withdrew their case against her.

Right from the beginning our daughter’s lawyer said something was very wrong with this case. She suspected the police may have not have wanted to reveal the witness as if it was only the boy who took the car who lit it, then his parents would not have been able to get a pay out on it but I suppose we’ll never know why (I bet if there had been a witness saying she did it they wouldn’t have ‘forgot’ to mention them or forget to put in the two notebook entries). It does explain why the police were trying so hard to make her say she did it before the court case .

It really upsets me how close we came to losing everything when the police knew all along it wasn’t her. Our lawyer said if this witness had been mentioned at the beginning it would never had got to court, & nor should it have. Our daughter now has her visa thank goodness.

Thank you guys for the help & support you offered through this we really appreciated it.

BEVS

Good grief. That's a disgraceful shoddy bit of police work & you have to wonder at the reasons behind that. I'd want an apology.

Thank goodness it's all come right in the end and you all have your visas.

So very pleased for you & thank you so much for taking the time to update .

Karma your way.