TommyLuck

Hi there,

I've been reading this forum for a while as I've been thinking about moving to New Zealand for some time.

Whilst my arrival is NZ is going to be July 2013, I actually leave the UK in the first week of May 2013 travelling through North America and Australia on my way. I thought this might be an opportune moment to see the British Lions in Australia


Let me open up by saying that I'm hugely looking forward to New Zealand, but naturally there is some trepidation, and I'd appreciate the opportunity to pick your brains, as ex-pats in New Zealand;

My wife is a Kiwi, we met in London in 2006 and have since got married and had a daughter here. However the time has come that my wife doesn't really have anybody in London anymore. Her friends who are here are still single, let alone married and are certainly not mothers.

All her friends of that ilk are in NZ.

I've visited NZ on 4 occasions, the 3rd of which we got married in the Waitakere Ranges, I'm a huge fan of NZ. I have been since my first visit in 2003.

Naturally every time we visit her family ask 'so when are you moving over here', each and every time I've responded to the tune of whilst I'm making hay while the sun shines in London, there's no reason to cut my nose off to spite my face, in the back of my mind thinking I would have stayed there and then if it was that easy.

But the situation is that I've still got a pretty full life in London. I play sport regularly, I've got mates I can hook up with regularly. My job is going well. My wife doesn't have all of this, she's not enjoying her job so much and doesn't have the social opportunities that I've got. She does have her sport however (saving grace).

I figure that I can have all of what I've got in London, in NZ, and my wife can IMPROVE her lifestyle offering ... So it's the logical move to take.


But then there's my family. I'm not a born and bred Londoner, my family are from Hampshire, but I took the plunge to move to the smoke and though I do enjoy it, I'm a country lad at heart, which partly explains my attraction to NZ.


My family are very close knit, so my first question;

1. How an earth do you go about breaking news about your impending departure to your very close and reasonably large family?


I'm sure it won’t come as a surprise to them, per se. After all it's not like they don't know my wife is a Kiwi. But how do I approach it in terms of timing? Clearly I'm not going to tell them before I have my visa fully sorted, but with Christmas approaching, do I tell them that it'll be our last Christmas with them for a while? If so, how close to Christmas do I 'surprise' them with the news?


Our daughter turns 2 in October, I'm taking her away from her only living grandparents (my Ma and Pa) and all of her 5 cousins, the oldest of which is only 6.

You can see why it's taken me ages to actually commit to NZ. My head knows that NZ will be a fantastic place to raise a family, no question. But my heart questions what detriment is caused by having my daughters family on the other side of the planet?

My wife's family on the other hand are much smaller, with her sister working out in the mines in Western Australia and my wife's Grandmother still alive and kicking in Auckland. Then a smattering of uncles and aunts.

Of course there are her bestest friends too, in Auckland, Wellywood and Dunners.

(Never heard of a slang name for Auckland ... ?)


2. How do I go about fielding questions about how long I'm going for?

I don't have an answer, it might be forever. It'll certainly be until I get my citizenship (5 years, or so?). This seems to make sense for the long term. My wife and child are both dual NZ/British passport holders, and as it stands, so will any more children. I'm a Brit only, so it's seems reasonable to aim to become an NZ citizen myself so all of the family is singing from the same hymn sheet, in that respect.

Ultimately I have no plan to return to the UK, although that's not to say I wont. Has anyone else dealt with this quandary? What was your experience?

3. How do you find is the best way to keep in touch with family and friends back in Blightly?

Of course email/phone are easy ways when you know you can ultimately decide to go and actually see them with not much notice, or planning.

I'm mainly think of my daughter continuing to recognise people from home. Is skype (or equivalent) a successful method of communication?



For a country the prides itself on how green it is, I'm astounded how much physical paper is required to apply for a visa. I can't believe you can do a lot of what is required online.

Given my wife and I have lived together for over 5 years and she's been over here for over 9 years - I'm eligible for a residency visa, which is good news.

But here's the not so much bad, but disconcerting news. I have a blemish on my criminal record; Cycling without due care an attention.

A stupid moment on Oxford Street in July 2009, which I (begrudgingly) accepted was my fault in court - a story for another time perhaps.

Anyway, I went to NZ house yesterday to go over my visa application with an advisor and whilst she couldn't promise anything, understandably, she didn't think this would be a problem. She went so far to say that she'd never come across a cycling offence in a visa application.

So my next question;

4. I know that drink driving, whilst rife certainly in rural NZ, is rightly highly frowned upon in NZ. I wasn't drunk on my bike. And motoring offences in general do shed you in bad light when applying for a visa - but what about cycling offences?

I accept this is probably rare, but does anyone know of anyone who was affected by such a minor offence? Could this actually lead to a being seen as 'not of good character'?



Aside from the above, I'm massively looking forward to NZ. I've read post with interest about homesickness. And whilst I'm sure that I will feel it at times, I ultimately left home at 9 years old to go to boarding school so the sense being 'away from home' isn't a new feeling to me at all.

I know I enjoy the food and drink that NZ has to offer, although I've never found a decent sausage in NZ. And I'm not in to fashion, so the lack of decent clothing at a reasonable price doesn't bother me, though I do like a good Kathmandu sale!!!!!!

I consider myself and my family well travelled, even the little one has been to several countries in her short life, and I don't think I'll miss a great deal about the UK, except for people


Finally, is there anything you think I should be aware of? Any surprises as an ex-pat in New Zealand? Any major challenges to overcome? Anything that you would have done differently when you turned up there?


If you got this far, thanks for reading my diatribe, I'd hugely appreciate any advice that you can give.


Wish me luck

thepinkone

Wow TommyLuck, nice and detailed OP, really get a picture of you/family.

While I can't offer advice on being in NZ (we plan to move November), I can share where we're at.

My partner broke the news to his family really early in the process (they've always known it was an aim, but they realised it could be a reality when I had a job interview); he and my daughter are very close to his side of the family. I am very aware that it will be hard for both of them when we move so for us it worked well giving them plenty of time to get used to the idea. My partner and his father are also cramming in all the bike riding excursions they can before the move!

I've only just told my family - once again they knew it was a possibility, but I waited until after I'd signed my contract (although before we have the visa's as we plan to go as soon as they are through - fingers crossed). I'm a terrible cousin/niece/grandaughter because I only visit about twice a year anyway, so it's going to be no great loss on my side. I will however miss my eldest (he's 22) who's staying.

My partner had a previous driving offence (speeding), since taken off his record and didn't show on the ACRO, so maybe you will be fine with that.

Good luck with it all and keep us updated; oh yes, and welcome

TommyLuck

Thanks, thepinkone.

As I said in my post, I don't think it will come as a surprise to the family, perhaps it hasn't been an aim as such, but I've never ruled it out.

I'm mainly wary of avioding endless goodbyes and any potential attempts to make me think again, because frankly, I don't want to upset anyone by telling them I will not be changing my mind.

Trying to strike a balance between people getting used to idea of us going, whilst not dragging it out.


I'm assuming you and your partner are British? My I ask, why New Zealand for you?

dannigirl

Hi TommyLuck,

Great detailed OP....me and my family are in a similar situation, except that I am the kiwi and my husband is the Brit. We have two girls (3 justabout 4 and 9 months) and we are finally heading to NZ- Dunedin in January 2013.

It has taken a long time for us to make the decision and actually to organise everything and like you we have been trying to make the most of our earning opportunities in London (and just trying to get through the double dip and original recession unscathed).

We have just recently done a reverse reccie to Dunedin and two things really made the decision for us. Whilst we were away my husband's company went into liquidation, so no job for him to come back to (has another one already thankfully!) and he got a great job offer in Dunedin.

I first became homesick after my first daughter was born and have been pretty much pining for home ever since. I also have few friends left in London and don't feel like we are really living life (so to speak). We aren't able to make full use of London at the moment due to having young children. The sheer amount of people, traffic, and lack of quality lifestyle is really starting to wear me down.

My husband's family are all in Cardiff and we considered moving there, but on balance have decided that NZ at this moment in time can offer us a better quality of life, surprisingly a better job opportunity, and we will be near family also. We have long known that one of us will always probably be away from our respective family.

We broke it to family by drip feeding a little bit. We planted a bit of a seed with them all but we were totally up front with my husband's mum. She is 86 and we needed to know that she gave us her blessing. So, they all knew that our reverse reccie was to see if Dunedin was the place for us. We told them we were looking at schools, houses, etc so they were under no illusions about our trip. When we came back we told them our plans to move in January. Given the job situation for us in London (I am still on maternity leave) we probably would have just packed up and gone as our flat is due to be sold end of August () but our compromise of sorts has been to stay until after Christmas so that my husband's mum can spend some time with our two daughters who will turn one and four before we go, and so that we can spend Christmas with everyone too (and attend a big family wedding!). We are moving back to Cardiff for a few months to spend quality time with everyone. We have only had one snidey comment from a cousin, who tried to imply that husband's mum is depressed and ill because we are leaving! No, she is 86 frail and old, however, she still manages to live on her own.

The rest of the family have been fantastic and are totally behind us. Of course they are sad at the prospect of us going, but they are so supportive so we feel very lucky.

I would let your family know maybe a bit before Christmas, so that it can be a really special one if you are leaving next year. Give a date and just be straight. No pussy footing around so that they know you ARE moving, not THINKING about moving. Only you will know really how your family will react, but I don't think it would be nice for you to spring it on them and for them to feel like you (or more importantly your wife) has planned it all behind their back. Talk about them visiting ASAP and don't get into a battle about NZ vs UK.

We really emphasise to people that we are not moving away from the UK because of any specific problems, we are moving to NZ because it is right for our family at this given time. This could change and we are not averse to coming back.

I am dreading leaving our family here, but I also miss my family in NZ. My dad has no other grandchildren in NZ and whilst I would not move solely for that reason, I do want my family to be part of our children's lives at some point. This has had to be about our wee family, we can't keep all of our extended family happy so it needs to be about us (and we have needed to be a bit selfish in that respect). We are lucky in that my husband is the youngest of six boys (his next sibling is 13 years older) so they can all afford to and hopefully will come and visit us in NZ. We have lots of nieces and nephews who are late teens, early 20s and there are lots of rumblings of people coming to visit us already!! His mum will not be able to travel and the biggest issue at the moment is that my husband may not see his mum again (after we leave in Jan) or she may battle on for another five years - who knows. But we don't have a crystal ball and we can't change the situation so we just have to deal with it as best we can.

I don't think you will have any issues with your visa, seems a pretty minor offence to me and it is much easier to get in on a spousal/partner visa.

We plan to keep in touch with skype and regular calls. My dad in NZ has an iPAD for skype and if he can use it, then ANYONE can use it. It makes skype much easier.

I think half the battle is thinking ahead about the culture shock, the homesickness. It will be hard if you are close to your family, but it is something you have to cope with being part of a marriage with two different cultures and countries involved.

It sounds like you know NZ and the kiwi way of life fairly well. We made the most of our time in NZ by meeting up with lots of friends and prepping them about us coming in January (dropping lots of hints about BBQs and our desire to play touch, get involved in sports teams etc etc).

I think most people will say it is difficult to predict how you will get on with kiwi life. It is very different to the UK (as you know!). The fact is some people love it, some people loathe it. I think the most outstanding factor contributing to misery in NZ is lack of money. No-one wants to go to a new country and be "poor". I always say to people that for me the standard of living in the UK is much better (i.e we will always be better off in monetary terms, have many more exotic holidays, probably have a newer car etc etc) but in NZ is a better quality of life (for me). I like simple, I like being able to drive to the supermarket without having to asses the traffic conditions. But as I was raised in NZ I guess I am used to the way of life/culture a bit more. I am sure I will have my frustrations and will have a good old whinge at times, but generally I am a glass half full person (although I do worry a lot) and I think we will be okay. We have some capital and although we won't be able to afford to travel back to the UK as often as we would like, if we had to move back we'll have the funds (or ask my millionaire brother in law).

Keep posting here, it does help. It has helped me remove some of my rose-tinted perspective on NZ and I think I have a good understanding of how it might be for my husband. I still have wobbles, mainly because it is a big and daunting move for us. I came here, footloose and fancy free and will be going back with a husband, two kids and a massive container of house belongings! But we both feel the "risk" is worth taking though and hopefully we'll look back in just over a years time and be thankful we were brave and took the leap!

Good luck.

Mark Smith

I told my parents pretty early, they went through stages of pretending not to care, denial, tears, blackmail and nearer the time acceptance and excitement for us both. My wife left it later with her mum, not until we had the PR visas in hand.

We arrived in Chch last November. I've found Skype much better than phone calls, even with all the glitches. I manage to speak to my parents almost every weekend. The mother in law refuses to accept new technologies and won't get a pc. My wife really misses her mum and it makes me feel bad when I'm Skyping away.
Back in June I popped back to the UK for 5 days (long story) on my own. My friend and I played a bit of a trick on my folks (who didn't know I was coming back). I had pre-warned mum that my friend was coming round to drop belongings that I'll left behind after the move. He put me in the boot of the car, ushered my parents to help with the heavy bags. The look of horror when I popped out was priceless, a good job they both have strong hearts! Classic
We go back next year for a proper break and plan to set the mother in law up with a laptop and a dongle.

I wish we brought more money when we got here, but the visas were costly and the exchange rate was and still is pants. Annoying as we had the summer to enjoy and no jobs to worry about.

TommyLuck

dannigirl,

That is a magnificent reply, I hugely appreciate the time you have taken to respond in such detail. What's more is you've made some very salient points that I hadn't considered;

- Make sure people are in no doubt about us going and when were going.
- Not getting in to an NZ v. UK debate (a very good point).
- Making sure people realise that we're not leaving the UK for any reason other that it's what we feel is best for our family.
- Potential about feeling "poor".

With regards to the last one, I too am a fairly simple chap in that I don't spend a great deal of money on "stuff". We'd rather go to a posh restaurant or go an watch some sport when I've got a bit of extra cash, thought these things are no impertive, just nice to do when time/money allows.

We do this as a family too. The little one has aleady been to Twickenham, seen a day of a Test Match and been to the Football match.

However, you have put the thought in my mind, because although we are comfortable in London, in financial terms, the step down may be more of a shock than I anticipate.

Generally your post does resonate heavily with me and my family, there are a lot of similarities certainly between the situation your husband and I find ourselves in and it's helpful to hear your story as you're a couple of steps ahead of us.

Thank you so much.

TommyLuck

Thank Mark.

The above is the stuff I want to avoid, obviously would like to skip denial and blackmail

It's not going to be ideal, but ideally, we would get everything out in the open, people will tell each other they're going to miss each other (naturally), bug hugs all round and expession of good luck and being told to enjoy it.

I'm glad to hear things are going well and the use of skype is a winner.

In fact, just last night I set up skype on my iPad. I plan to make contact with a few people in NZ just to test it out, largely so I can demo it to the technophobes over here before we go.


I would ask one thing, if you have your time again would you have changed anything about the timing, given the teeny amount of discontent that was shown?

Mark Smith

I'm pretty close to my old mother and I felt it would give us some more time together before I left. I think she would have taken it worse had I left it until later.
There is no simple answer, but I am really glad to have had over a year to say goodbye to my folks. They got a bit worried over the new year with all the aftershocks, but regular facebook updates and lots of pictures have been well received.
Good luck in whatever you decide to do

TommyLuck

Good point ... If anything like this and volcanos erupting occurs, best to nip things in the bud and make sure people know we're fine.

At the moment despite owning a reasonable SLR camera which I've taken c. 5,000 photos with, few have made it further than the hard drive, will have to change that habit.


Also, duly noted about you valuing your time with your Mum, given that you fessed up early on. Makes total sense. Especially given the closeness.

thepinkone

We're both British however my grandmother emmigrated to the UK from Greece in the 1940's so the idea of part of the family striking off is not alien.

I really liked the point made about not getting into a UK v NZ thing, but have found this creeping in - my partner really doesn't get why I want to move; the UK has everything he wants (Wales a couple of hours away for mountain biking and his parents on the doorstep). He's worried that this move is eating our savings and we'll hit NZ "poor." My worklife here is hard, we're in a baby boom (I'm a midwife) and I'm constantly stretched at work/am expected to work extra without extra pay. I'm hoping it will be a little different in NZ.

I'm moving because my career prospects/options appear to be better in NZ, I'm fed up of the midlands and cities and I think it will be a better place for my daughter to grow. I've moved around the UK from the age of 10, with a small seaside town (Mablethorpe) being one of my favourite places; I'd like my daughter to experience more than city life. I do feel like I'm dragging my partner with me and this may cause problems - I've already had the nasty comment of "I'm really looking forward to watching my parents die over the internet" I can understand he'll miss his family, and his Mum is being a pain about visiting (can't leave the plants for more than 2 weeks) but I'm sure it'll work out; if it doesn't we'll come back.

hazeandsteve

Your offence is of no consequence at all. My convictions/time served didn't stop me emigrating or gaining citizenship, just be open and honest, and a little embarressment wouldn't go amiss.
Sport is probably the best way you'll meet new friends here, and child groups mean you most definitely won't be short of like minded/aged friends.
Best of luck.

TommyLuck

Not sure whether you are Steve or Haze, either way thanks. Good to know.

TommyLuck

The comments seem a little harsh, but I guess were all human and all act a bit weird when we're taken out of our comfort zone.

I absolutely understand the desire to find a better place for the kids to grow up. It's not that I think the UK is a bad place (it's not done me any harm), but
I am envious of the opportunities certainly primary school kids get.

I have two examples;

1. Shortly after getting married we made a trip to the South Island. We were kicking around Lake Rotoiti in the Nelson Lakes National Park and a bunch of schools kid, 8 or 9, rocked up and had a natural geography lesson on the jetty. I loved geography at school and was very jealous of the opportunity kids as young as that were having. I didn't leave the classroom for a geography lesson until I was at least 12 or 13.

2. On our last visit, we visited Te Papa, which astounded me. It was excellent. But what really struck me was how quiet it was in there. Don't get me wrong the Natural History Museum, The British Museum, et al are superb, but they are heaving. Always.

Te Papa is just as good, but a much better learining environment.


I realise these are just two education examples, but it did get me thinking that growing up in New Zealand is probably a hoot. I also like the idea of the Summer/Xmas holidays rolled in to one, and as I understand it 4 school terms, instead of 3?



Look at me, getting all ahead of myself and planning schooling ...

scrubbedexpat094

I hate to rain on your parade but that doesn't bode well. Immigrating is hard enough without one person being against it before you even get here. Have you considered moving to somewhere else in the UK?

I understand that all is not rosy in the NHS & jobs are difficult to come by but have you given that option some serious thought. You're not working at Derby Royal are you???? I used to work there, it was always extremely busy but my colleagues were fantastic.

What does your OH do? Has he got a job lined up in NZ?

thepinkone

Hi Vitalstatistix - my OH was made redundant 4 months ago; one of the reasons for moving soon. The idea of using his redundancy package for this move seemed like a good one. He's currently enjoying not working and I think has his rose tinted specs on with regards to his current lifestyle (able to go running, mountainbiking whenever he wants and enjoying time with his retired parents); this isn't really working for us as I'm contracted part time and we've already started eating into the redundancy money. He's applied for several jobs in the UK, but no luck (Forklift truck driver). The contract I've signed in NZ is full time, it will make a huge difference, we're moving to New Plymouth where we're hoping there will be job prospects for him, but I will be in the position to be able to support us if not (obviously not in that position here). He does say he's on board and I did overhear him talking about the positives of the move to someone recently; I just think he's worried about the big step, he's lived within a 3 mile radius his whole life. We have considered Wales, but I've wanted to do the move to NZ since 2004; we'll do Wales if we don't get the visa. It is really difficult when dreams aren't shared; my grown-up son asked what I'd do if my OH changed his mind and I found this question hard. We've been together over 12 years and have a 10year old, I honestly believe I could not be without him, but I would be gutted if I had to give up on my plans. Sorry for hyjacking your thread TommyLuck.