Originally Posted by southerner

...Sorry Lardy for getting all 'quasi-philosophical' (spic) on ya

Originally Posted by AH30

It surprises me that some Brits think that NZ has a poor quality and choice of grocery items. As a Kiwi living in the UK that's one of the thinks that I thought was worse in the UK. The quality and selection of meat in particular is better in NZ, in my opinion anyway.

Originally Posted by southerner

I see again that the word sophistication has been used a lot on this thread, as if it was somehow a single objective measure on some axis of good. In my view its not! What is sophisticated society to one person might be totally backward to another. For example the same country that first put a man on the moon, has almost total freedom to own a gun and generally encourages citizens to drive huge gas guzzling vehicles, and to have less than 2 weeks annual holiday. Is that a sophisticated society, or backward, or a bit of both?

Or take Italy (probably my favourite country to visit) with its wonderful cultural history, its 'la dolce vita', and its leadership in modern style and fashion, but it has terrible problems with litter, corruption, mad drivers, over development, etc.

I guess my point is that depending on your perspective different subjective factors will determine what is sophisticated to you or not, and whether more development or less, or more or less complexity, or whatever it is that is 'sophistication' to you, is good or bad.

Originally Posted by sr71

....And how ironic that someone with a brummy accent is complaining about lack of sophistication.

Originally Posted by lardyl

yeah right. about sums your attitude up........can't even see when someone else is having a laugh at themselves.......but then you could never do that, got too much of an inferiority complex......

Originally Posted by sr71

But can't you see how hypocritical you are being, you are exhibiting exactly the same traits that you are criticising Kiwis for. Giving it out but not being able to take it yourself.

Originally Posted by sr71

The quality is fine, much better than the UK in that fresh food has flavour. But the prices really are horrendous and worse so when compared to NZ earnings.

The choice thing is a just whinging IMO. You don't need 20 types of washing powder (probably all owned by 2-3 companies anyway) or those horrible ready-meals that exist in the UK.

Originally Posted by lardyl

affordable .......come on.......home kill aside........which most people dont have a go at.......What's the price per kilo of a joint of lamb, say, compared to *your disposible income* or your grocery budget *expressed as hours worked* living in NZ compared to that in the UK?
For us it must be twice the "true" cost. It certainly is more hours of work for either of us earners to pay for the groceries every week.
That is a very common "complaint" of ex-Pats on here and in the "real" world and its not just people being "fussy", its pretty much a fact of life for lots of people struggling to make ends meet in NZ. Particularly now the recession is biting hard.
But then we are all different I suppose and we all move from one place to another.
The UK supermarkets may have the market stitched up and their suppliers by the short and curlies but they do provide choice that is wider than most of the rest of the world (don't take my word for it check out the experts who discuss these things on, erm real radio, you know Radio4, not NZ National - wait a minute, much of the programming there is re-cycled from the BBC, so you might catch that......just like many of the newspaper articles.....) - I digress....
I will say that I find some of the luxurys are nice, like the cheapie ice-cream, biscuits, fruit and veges in season, etc but they are more like luxuries than they ever were in the UK.
The meat from places like Mad Butcher, where lets face it lots of people shop, can be woeful and the prices at independent butchers are generally higher than at the supermarkets......although we try to stretch to that when we are after a joint, etc.
Aside from the essentials, I suppose that the electrical goods are reasonable in price as the £ is now pretty weak and the expected price increases as the NZ$ has plummetted have not fully appreared ....yet.... but don't count your chickens on that one .
Most other goods are much less affordable and less available here - take kid's shoes, how far do you need to travel to get your kids' feet measured and some decent shoes on them? I know that's a Kiwi thing about going barefoot but hey some people have standards.....and don't want the problems later in life.
We've been through the whole debates on undies, mid-priced clothes, etc but its pretty clear (to me at least) that we live in a place with less competition, a smaller market and I hate to say it again, less sophisticated consumers......hence we have to spend more of what we have to spare to get less and we have less choice in what is available. IMO of course.

Originally Posted by Genesis

I bought 3 X sirloin steaks in 2005 back in the UK..cost almost 12GBP. In NZ money thats about $32 a todays rate..similar to the rate back in 2005. I can get 3 bits of the same for about $12 ish dollars here. Personally I don't find meat pricey here. We are not rich and we were not poor in the UK either so I had disposable income in the UK too. I just find the cost of living here not that onerous.

Originally Posted by lardyl

There's an old addage in litigation and it about sums it up........"win on the law if you can, win on the evidence if you can, then personal attack".

Looks like you lost.

Originally Posted by sr71

I don't think I've ever witnessed such sanctimonious claptrap in quite some time. And your last post pretty much removes any credibility you had and reinforces the 'profile we are building on you'

I'm not going to get in a slanging match but you are the one that started with the personal attacks, however veiled they might have been.

Here is my original quote :

which was met with :

So apparently just dismissing any of my opinions as 'rubbish' or 'silly', assuming I've just made it all up with a quick 'OE experience' is not a personal attack?

Originally Posted by sr71

Out of the 20+ staff we dealt with only 2 were British, but that is beside the point if their standards are up to a good level. They weren't and neither was their treatment of my wife or baby, who had shoulder dystocia after a long labour and had to be resuscitated.

Clearly none of you have had experience of inner London hospitals.

Originally Posted by sr71

So better than the UK then, whose maternity system is at developing world level and at times seems to be solely staffed by staff from the developing world.

Originally Posted by sr71

I'm surprised by your post - I've never thought tipping in restaurants was expected in the UK at all, and certainly never, ever by people like hairdressers.

Originally Posted by luvwelly

I think the provinces tend to be better for NHS maternity probably simply because high cost of living in London makes it harder to attract and retain quality staff. The paradox is some of the best consultants are based at London hospitals (they do NHS and private) but I've never heard anyone praise the care on the ward afterwards very much. Luckily I had mine in the provinces and was extremely pleased with my NHS elective C-Section . Less impressed by my earlier experience but still pretty good on the whole..same hospital.

Originally Posted by lardyl

now to get personal and investigate further


and:


the profile develops - clearly we must hold thy "OE" up as a beacon of light.....and thy sophistication as rather, erm, low........never eat out in London then?? or if you did what did it say on the menu??

had a haircut in the UK?

clearly someone has been reading the wrong guidebooks........