Go Back  British Expats > Living & Moving Abroad > New Zealand
Reload this Page >

Was the 27 million worth it?

Was the 27 million worth it?

Old Mar 25th 2016, 11:40 am
  #1  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Nov 2011
Location: Somewhere between Vancouver & St Johns
Posts: 17,158
Former Lancastrian has a reputation beyond reputeFormer Lancastrian has a reputation beyond reputeFormer Lancastrian has a reputation beyond reputeFormer Lancastrian has a reputation beyond reputeFormer Lancastrian has a reputation beyond reputeFormer Lancastrian has a reputation beyond reputeFormer Lancastrian has a reputation beyond reputeFormer Lancastrian has a reputation beyond reputeFormer Lancastrian has a reputation beyond reputeFormer Lancastrian has a reputation beyond reputeFormer Lancastrian has a reputation beyond repute
Default Was the 27 million worth it?

How many New Zealanders does it take to change a flag?

It’s the 27-million-dollar question to which, after 10 months, 10,300 designs and two public referendums, we still don’t know the answer – because after all that, the vote was to stick with the same old flag.
Ten months, 10,000 designs, no new flag for New Zealand. What was that about? | World news | The Guardian

I bet most of you would have sooner been given just over $6 each if you wanted to waste 27 million rather than spending it on deciding not to change your flag
Former Lancastrian is offline  
Old Mar 25th 2016, 5:06 pm
  #2  
jmh
BE Forum Addict
 
jmh's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2009
Location: South Auckland
Posts: 2,228
jmh has a reputation beyond reputejmh has a reputation beyond reputejmh has a reputation beyond reputejmh has a reputation beyond reputejmh has a reputation beyond reputejmh has a reputation beyond reputejmh has a reputation beyond reputejmh has a reputation beyond reputejmh has a reputation beyond reputejmh has a reputation beyond reputejmh has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Was the 27 million worth it?

Part of the problem was that there was no real drive to change it in the first place. Most people were underawed with the process, and many of the roadshows were poorly attended. Pro-change people had to lobby hard to motivate people to change and at the end of the day, most people couldn't see the point if the alternative was a flag they didn't like.

Most people would have preferred to see that money spent solving some of the problems we have here.
jmh is offline  
Old Mar 26th 2016, 6:54 am
  #3  
Truth is the safest lie.
 
Charismatic's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: @ the beach.
Posts: 6,572
Charismatic has a reputation beyond reputeCharismatic has a reputation beyond reputeCharismatic has a reputation beyond reputeCharismatic has a reputation beyond reputeCharismatic has a reputation beyond reputeCharismatic has a reputation beyond reputeCharismatic has a reputation beyond reputeCharismatic has a reputation beyond reputeCharismatic has a reputation beyond reputeCharismatic has a reputation beyond reputeCharismatic has a reputation beyond repute
Wink Re: Was the 27 million worth it?

Best $6 I ever spent annoying a sitting PM. Value at twice the money.

Let's have more plebiscites to annoy established politicians. We could start by changing John Keys official title to "Reawyn from reception."
Charismatic is offline  
Old Mar 26th 2016, 7:16 am
  #4  
MODERATOR
 
MrsFychan's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2011
Location: Wellington - I miss Castles, the NHS & English school system
Posts: 8,990
MrsFychan has a reputation beyond reputeMrsFychan has a reputation beyond reputeMrsFychan has a reputation beyond reputeMrsFychan has a reputation beyond reputeMrsFychan has a reputation beyond reputeMrsFychan has a reputation beyond reputeMrsFychan has a reputation beyond reputeMrsFychan has a reputation beyond reputeMrsFychan has a reputation beyond reputeMrsFychan has a reputation beyond reputeMrsFychan has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Was the 27 million worth it?

Originally Posted by Charismatic View Post
Best $6 I ever spent annoying a sitting PM. Value at twice the money.

Let's have more plebiscites to annoy established politicians. We could start by changing John Keys official title to "Reawyn from reception."
MrsFychan is offline  
Old Mar 26th 2016, 8:12 am
  #5  
BE Enthusiast
 
Kotare's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2014
Location: Pakaraka
Posts: 713
Kotare has a reputation beyond reputeKotare has a reputation beyond reputeKotare has a reputation beyond reputeKotare has a reputation beyond reputeKotare has a reputation beyond reputeKotare has a reputation beyond reputeKotare has a reputation beyond reputeKotare has a reputation beyond reputeKotare has a reputation beyond reputeKotare has a reputation beyond reputeKotare has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Was the 27 million worth it?

If the alternative had been black with a silver fern (rather than a dogs breakfast) it would have got through.
Kotare is offline  
Old Mar 26th 2016, 10:30 am
  #6  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Nov 2011
Location: Somewhere between Vancouver & St Johns
Posts: 17,158
Former Lancastrian has a reputation beyond reputeFormer Lancastrian has a reputation beyond reputeFormer Lancastrian has a reputation beyond reputeFormer Lancastrian has a reputation beyond reputeFormer Lancastrian has a reputation beyond reputeFormer Lancastrian has a reputation beyond reputeFormer Lancastrian has a reputation beyond reputeFormer Lancastrian has a reputation beyond reputeFormer Lancastrian has a reputation beyond reputeFormer Lancastrian has a reputation beyond reputeFormer Lancastrian has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Was the 27 million worth it?

Originally Posted by Kotare View Post
If the alternative had been black with a silver fern (rather than a dogs breakfast) it would have got through.
Thats a bit unfair on dogs isn't it?
Former Lancastrian is offline  
Old Mar 26th 2016, 7:28 pm
  #7  
jmh
BE Forum Addict
 
jmh's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2009
Location: South Auckland
Posts: 2,228
jmh has a reputation beyond reputejmh has a reputation beyond reputejmh has a reputation beyond reputejmh has a reputation beyond reputejmh has a reputation beyond reputejmh has a reputation beyond reputejmh has a reputation beyond reputejmh has a reputation beyond reputejmh has a reputation beyond reputejmh has a reputation beyond reputejmh has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Was the 27 million worth it?

Originally Posted by Kotare View Post
If the alternative had been black with a silver fern (rather than a dogs breakfast) it would have got through.
I don't agree. Most people didn't want a black flag and a significant number didn't want to be represented by a sports logo.

Many people, including the media, don't realise that a large proportion of the population are not rugby fans. Shocking I know, but it is one of the myths of NZ that everybody loves the All Blacks. I would be embarrassed to have their symbol as my flag. It would show the world how shallow we are.
jmh is offline  
Old Mar 26th 2016, 8:19 pm
  #8  
BE Enthusiast
 
Kotare's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2014
Location: Pakaraka
Posts: 713
Kotare has a reputation beyond reputeKotare has a reputation beyond reputeKotare has a reputation beyond reputeKotare has a reputation beyond reputeKotare has a reputation beyond reputeKotare has a reputation beyond reputeKotare has a reputation beyond reputeKotare has a reputation beyond reputeKotare has a reputation beyond reputeKotare has a reputation beyond reputeKotare has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Was the 27 million worth it?

Originally Posted by jmh View Post
I don't agree. Most people didn't want a black flag and a significant number didn't want to be represented by a sports logo.

Many people, including the media, don't realise that a large proportion of the population are not rugby fans. Shocking I know, but it is one of the myths of NZ that everybody loves the All Blacks. I would be embarrassed to have their symbol as my flag. It would show the world how shallow we are.
Shallow perhaps in your opinion but it would have got through - tell the Maori that the silver fern is purely a sports symbol.

I would add that the silver fern is recognised as kiwi by a significant part of the world and that recognition is what you want as a national emblem.

Last edited by Kotare; Mar 26th 2016 at 8:40 pm.
Kotare is offline  
Old Mar 26th 2016, 8:51 pm
  #9  
She'll be right
 
Pom_Chch's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2012
Location: Near the beach, NZ
Posts: 1,439
Pom_Chch has a reputation beyond reputePom_Chch has a reputation beyond reputePom_Chch has a reputation beyond reputePom_Chch has a reputation beyond reputePom_Chch has a reputation beyond reputePom_Chch has a reputation beyond reputePom_Chch has a reputation beyond reputePom_Chch has a reputation beyond reputePom_Chch has a reputation beyond reputePom_Chch has a reputation beyond reputePom_Chch has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Was the 27 million worth it?

The opinion of the silver fern being purely a sporting symbol is somewhat misguided. The use of the fern dates back to the Second Boer War from early 1900's (and World Wars also) where it was used as an official national symbol of NZ. Sure nowadays it has evolved and is used to represent our sports teams but that is not its only association if you look further into the history of the fern. Now, if the proposed new flag designs had featured a rugby ball I would be completely in agreement that such a design would be too sports orientated! But the reality is the fern has long been a strong symbol in NZ without sporting connotations and has been used in a non-sporting capacity long before the All Blacks existed, which is why I feel there's more to it than sport and can accept it as a perfectly presentable flag symbol.

The general opinion is that a lot of New Zealanders wouldn't mind a new flag, but a lot of people didn't like the designs, which is where a lot of the problem seems to lie.
Pom_Chch is offline  
Old Mar 26th 2016, 9:07 pm
  #10  
jmh
BE Forum Addict
 
jmh's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2009
Location: South Auckland
Posts: 2,228
jmh has a reputation beyond reputejmh has a reputation beyond reputejmh has a reputation beyond reputejmh has a reputation beyond reputejmh has a reputation beyond reputejmh has a reputation beyond reputejmh has a reputation beyond reputejmh has a reputation beyond reputejmh has a reputation beyond reputejmh has a reputation beyond reputejmh has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Was the 27 million worth it?

I'm not against a fern - there are some great stylised versions out there. What I am against is the All Black fern on a black flag as our national symbol.
jmh is offline  
Old Mar 27th 2016, 3:05 am
  #11  
Life is what YOU make it.
 
Joined: Oct 2009
Location: Christchurch
Posts: 3,312
Stormer999 has a reputation beyond reputeStormer999 has a reputation beyond reputeStormer999 has a reputation beyond reputeStormer999 has a reputation beyond reputeStormer999 has a reputation beyond reputeStormer999 has a reputation beyond reputeStormer999 has a reputation beyond reputeStormer999 has a reputation beyond reputeStormer999 has a reputation beyond reputeStormer999 has a reputation beyond reputeStormer999 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Was the 27 million worth it?

'
"All Commonwealth war graves of fallen New Zealand soldiers have the silver fern engraved on their tombstones". I wonder why Perhaps it signifies something.
Stormer999 is offline  
Old Mar 27th 2016, 4:15 am
  #12  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: May 2012
Location: Cayman Islands
Posts: 4,203
Gordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Was the 27 million worth it?

The black flag looked a bit too like the ISIS flag, at first glance. How many nations have black flags, for God's sake?
Gordon Barlow is offline  
Old Mar 27th 2016, 5:29 am
  #13  
Truth is the safest lie.
 
Charismatic's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: @ the beach.
Posts: 6,572
Charismatic has a reputation beyond reputeCharismatic has a reputation beyond reputeCharismatic has a reputation beyond reputeCharismatic has a reputation beyond reputeCharismatic has a reputation beyond reputeCharismatic has a reputation beyond reputeCharismatic has a reputation beyond reputeCharismatic has a reputation beyond reputeCharismatic has a reputation beyond reputeCharismatic has a reputation beyond reputeCharismatic has a reputation beyond repute
Smile Re: Was the 27 million worth it?

Originally Posted by Gordon Barlow View Post
The black flag looked a bit too like the ISIS flag, at first glance. How many nations have black flags, for God's sake?
Lots of Muslim countries have or have had black flags because it was chosen by Muhammad to represent his religion. Anarchists and pirates as well of course. So on careful consideration perhaps New Zealand isn’t the right place for a black flag.

It may be possible to design a flag more widely liked than the current design but it won’t be created by someone in a couple of months or selected by a committee. It probably won’t be a koru of fern either because they harken back to New Zealands past.
Charismatic is offline  
Old Mar 27th 2016, 10:21 am
  #14  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: bottom of the world
Posts: 4,026
Justcol has a reputation beyond reputeJustcol has a reputation beyond reputeJustcol has a reputation beyond reputeJustcol has a reputation beyond reputeJustcol has a reputation beyond reputeJustcol has a reputation beyond reputeJustcol has a reputation beyond reputeJustcol has a reputation beyond reputeJustcol has a reputation beyond reputeJustcol has a reputation beyond reputeJustcol has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Was the 27 million worth it?

No point in arguing about it now
The best option won through in the end

I agree with jmh about the black and silver fern, it's like England ditching the cross of St George
and switching to the 3 lions emblem from the football teams shirt (although not quite the same level of success)
I know others associate the fern with NZ and thats cool, but it's not flag material
Justcol is offline  
Old Mar 27th 2016, 8:41 pm
  #15  
BE Forum Addict
 
Woodlea's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Location: Rangiora
Posts: 1,201
Woodlea has a reputation beyond reputeWoodlea has a reputation beyond reputeWoodlea has a reputation beyond reputeWoodlea has a reputation beyond reputeWoodlea has a reputation beyond reputeWoodlea has a reputation beyond reputeWoodlea has a reputation beyond reputeWoodlea has a reputation beyond reputeWoodlea has a reputation beyond reputeWoodlea has a reputation beyond reputeWoodlea has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Was the 27 million worth it?

Originally Posted by Justcol View Post
I know others associate the fern with NZ and thats cool, but it's not flag material
What like the maple leaf isn't either? Gotta be one of the most easily recognized flags on earth, like ours could have been, instead of just looking like Australia's
Woodlea is offline  

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.