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Withdrawing RRSP

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Old Mar 23rd 2022 | 2:46 am
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Default Withdrawing RRSP

Hi Guys,
I'm considering withdrawing my RRSP as a non-resident which I know will accumulate a 25% withdrawal tax on the Canadian side of things.
As I'm technically a resident of the UK would this also apply as income in the UK? Would I get dinged twice on this withdrawal.

Or do I not need to report this to the UK tax authorities?
 
Old Mar 23rd 2022 | 4:43 pm
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Default Re: Withdrawing RRSP

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-man...-relief/dt4617
 
Old Mar 24th 2022 | 1:13 am
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Default Re: Withdrawing RRSP

Sorry if I seem a bit thick but I can't make heads or tail of that statement.

I owe Canada 25%, the UK can't and won't intervene on that (that's okay) but "whereas any UK tax charge is on the disposal of assets held within the Plan or Fund to enable the lump sum to be withdrawn (and no tax is levied on the disposal of fund assets in Canada)."

What does that mean? I'm reading it as if it costs me $200 to withdraw the money I need to pay UK tax on the $200. Am I right? Have I missed the point here?
 
Old Mar 24th 2022 | 2:00 am
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Default Re: Withdrawing RRSP

Originally Posted by ArthurBrit
Sorry if I seem a bit thick but I can't make heads or tail of that statement.

I owe Canada 25%, the UK can't and won't intervene on that (that's okay) but "whereas any [A] UK tax charge is on [B.] the disposal of assets held within the Plan or Fund to enable [C] the lump sum to be withdrawn (and [D] no tax is levied on the disposal of fund assets in Canada)."

What does that mean? I'm reading it as if it costs me $200 to withdraw the money I need to pay UK tax on the $200. Am I right? Have I missed the point here?
[A] The UK (HMR&C) will tax you ...
[B.] On the sale of investments within the pension plan ....
[C] that were sold to make available cash for your withdrawal .....
[D] if you are not taxed in Canada

OK?

That said, it sounds like HMR&C wants to tax the sale of investments before any fees are deducted - so if you sell $10,000 of investments and the fund manager charges a $250 fee, and you receive $9,750 net, the HMR&C tax (if applicable) would be based on the $10,000 sale of investments, not the $9,750 you received. At least that's my interpretation of the section you asked about.

Last edited by Pulaski; Mar 24th 2022 at 2:10 am.
 
Old Mar 24th 2022 | 5:59 am
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Default Re: Withdrawing RRSP

Originally Posted by Pulaski
[A] The UK (HMR&C) will tax you ...
[B.] On the sale of investments within the pension plan ....
[C] that were sold to make available cash for your withdrawal .....
[D] if you are not taxed in Canada

OK?

That said, it sounds like HMR&C wants to tax the sale of investments before any fees are deducted - so if you sell $10,000 of investments and the fund manager charges a $250 fee, and you receive $9,750 net, the HMR&C tax (if applicable) would be based on the $10,000 sale of investments, not the $9,750 you received. At least that's my interpretation of the section you asked about.
Still not 100% clear on it, let's use a fictitious scenario.

If I have an RRSP of $100,000 (All investment based).

I would owe CRA $25,000
HMRC a % of $100,000 based upon income tax or is this a different tax rate?
 
Old Mar 24th 2022 | 6:50 am
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Default Re: Withdrawing RRSP

Originally Posted by ArthurBrit
Still not 100% clear on it, let's use a fictitious scenario.

If I have an RRSP of $100,000 (All investment based).

I would owe CRA $25,000
HMRC a % of $100,000 based upon income tax or is this a different tax rate?
I believe that HMRC would want to levy tax based on the income tax rate(s), but I am not certain of that, but let's suppose for the sake of argument that you paid 25% tax in Canada and HMRC levies 20% tax on $20,000 and 40% tax on $80,000 then your tax bill in the UK would be $4,000 + $32,000 - $25,000, or an additional $11,000 over what you paid to the Canadians. The deduction of the tax already paid in Canada applies irrespective of whatever rate is applied in the UK, and if you have the option to split the withdrawals into two different UK tax years then the calculation might be rather different: 2 x (20% tax on $20,000 and 40% tax on $30,000) then your tax bill each year in the UK would be $4,000 + $12,000 - $12,500, and you would owe $3,500 for each year, for an aggregate of $4,000 less to HMRC over two years.

Last edited by Pulaski; Mar 24th 2022 at 7:19 am.
 
Old Mar 24th 2022 | 7:09 am
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Default Re: Withdrawing RRSP

Originally Posted by Pulaski
I believe that HMRC would want to levy tax based on the income tax rate(s), but I am not certain of that, but let's suppose for the sake of argument that you paid 25% tax in Canada and HMRC levies 20% tax on $20,000 and 40% tax on $80,000 then your tax bill in the UK would be $4,000 + $32,000 - $25,000, or an additional $11,000 over what you paid to the Canadians. The deduction of the tax already paid in Canada applies irrespective of whatever rate is applied in the UK, and if you have the option to split the withdrawals into two different UK tax years then the calculation might be rather different: 2 x (20% tax on $20,000 and 40% tax on $30,000) then your tax bill in the UK would be $4,000 + $12,000 - $25,000, and you would owe nothing over what you paid to the Canadians
Okay this is perfect. I completely understand it now.

My salary sits on the divide of income tax rates so I'm sure I'll get hit with another 15%, unless it turns out to be a different tax bracket.
 
Old Mar 24th 2022 | 7:18 am
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Default Re: Withdrawing RRSP

Originally Posted by ArthurBrit
Okay this is perfect. I completely understand it now. .....
Please excuse me, there was a significant error in the calculation I had posted - I deducted $25k in each of two years, when the correct amount to pay the Canadians and deduct from your payment to HMRC would be $12,500 in each year.
 
Old Mar 24th 2022 | 8:05 am
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Default Re: Withdrawing RRSP

Originally Posted by Pulaski
Please excuse me, there was a significant error in the calculation I had posted - I deducted $25k in each of two years, when the correct amount to pay the Canadians and deduct from your payment to HMRC would be $12,500 in each year.
All good sir, I appreciate the help. I saw what you were getting at.
 

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