HP, well said! The points you make are real & valid and it makes me laugh that so many expats-to-be don't take in these things before they mouth off about "UK is so expensive/ Australia is so cheap".

Guess you have to live it first to realise the pros & cons of either country. We'll stick with UK!

This has been my experience too. I'm an IT contractor, and found that I was working a basic 40 hour week in Melbourne (as opposed to 35 or 37.5 in the UK), and I still ended up doing overtime when needed, just as I would in the UK. I definitely spent net more time at work. This is bad enough as a contractor where I'm getting paid by the hour, but if I were permanent it would really bother me. If anything, I, like you, want to spend less time working, not more. 7 hour days don't seem to be an option anywhere in Aus.

I wasn't a permanent member of staff, but if I were, the 20 days annual leave wouldn't impress me either, nor would the fewer public holidays (the most recent of which was just ignored in Victoria).

I also know a guy who is CEO of a large company - and indeed spends almost every waking moment working, and is always considered to be on call, much as I would expect from someone in his position. He is often called at weekends and on holidays by work, and he handles it well but it still runs him down.

I don't see why work over in Aus would be any different than work in the UK - unless you yourself decide to take a less taxing job, which is ultimately something you could do in the UK too.

On another note, £21,000 in annual school fees may be more than the best public schools in Perth, but the English school may well be academically better than the best public school in Perth, so it's really a case of getting what you pay for. I went to a very well respected public school and the fees were less than a quarter of £21000, and it had a superb academic record. It just wasn't Eton... and it wasn't a boarding school. Are you perchance comparing boarding fees with non-boarding?

I do appreciate that you went on a 3-week holiday to Perth, and I respect your doing that investigating first, but a holiday is very different from the experience of living somewhere. Australia is great for a holiday and I would gladly return on that basis, but living here is quite another matter. It's great to have all that space and fresh air, but if you spend more time working, as you so rightly pointed out, you have little chance to appreciate it.

I totally agree, that's the point! If you want bigger and better wages and bigger houses etc the grass is always greener. I can move to Oz have no mortgage and survive on little earnings. I cant do that here. I can move to Oz and go surfing at 6.pm watching a fantastic sunset trying to avoid sharks, here I have a to wear a 6ft thick wetsuit watch the grey clouds turn black and avoid the floating nasties that wash up on our beaches due to the pollution we have pumped into the sea. I can drive a V8 fuel-guzzling monster, sure I can buy a new proton here but I want horsepower! Please don’t come back here because it is cheap. IT IS NOT!
England is definitely beautiful, it has its good points and bad but at the moment the bad points seem to be very bad. IMO the future for my Kids in England is not looking too bright. The thing is with going to OZ I know I can afford to help them with UNI and getting on the housing ladder. Here I can just afford to pay the bills and get by. After working for 15 years and I mean working none of this 8HR days I mean 8.30 - 11pm (You see when your in the design industry here you are expected to work all hours to keep the customer happy) its very hard to look at a future in the UK with a pension worth nothing, housing which is unaffordable, council tax rises regularly etc and not want for somewhere different.

I am not saying your wrong to come back, you have your own reasons but be aware that England’s wages are high and so is the cost of living. I know I might not be able to afford the school fees in Perth. I know I cannot afford them here! If life was so cheap and wages so high we'd all be staying here and retiring early wouldn't we!

Good jobs pay good wages, good wages buy good houses, good cars etc but lets face it whatever we earn it still just pays the bills we gather. If your in Oz thinking of coming back heres, some costs

Mortgage £1150 pm
Council tax £147.00 pm
Fuel 90+p per litre
Cigs around £5 a pack of 20 ( I dont smoke, cant afford it)
Wine from £3 depending on your pallette
Flights around europe are cheap as anything provided you dont have kids and need to fly in the school holidays (2 adults 2 kids to spain last august was £1100 flight only with budget airline)
Sunday lunch in our local £9.00 for main course
A brand new Daewoo Matiz 1 litre (lol) is £5k
Car Insurance fully comp full no claims the lot on an old knakered clio is £400.00 per year! (more than the car)

I make them expensive, wherever you live?
Dont foget why in Europe we are called rip-off Britain.

You see its relative, it totally depends on your personal situation. If you can come back with money or a high earning profession you will have a good standard of life. If someone goes to Oz with the same then surely it is no different?

Oddly, we seem to basically be in agreement but just be in a different position in life. I am paid well, not fantastically but well, and can afford to live in Britain despite it's huge costs. I still debate whether, apart from housing, they are any more expensive than Australia - some things in the UK are significantly cheaper. I don't have kids, nor do I intend to for quite a while, I always drive cheap second hand cars and am happy with that, and so on.

Bear in mind, as regards fuel prices, that they are indeed, if you take the comparative value of the pound and Aussie dollar, slightly higher in the UK, but in Australia driving is essential and usually over much longer distances, which makes the petrol actually more expensive if using the same car for the comparatively same uses.

I can see that in 20 years or so, the prospect of making a serious move to somewhere that I can afford to live on a pension will be more attractive, if Britain continues as it is. That may well just mean retiring to Cornwall or the Highlands though. Where I am, England is financially better for me in real terms.

The difference between us appears to be position in life, and also how well Australia may otherwise suit us. Surfing's not my thing, my hobbies are poorly catered for here.

I hope this didn't come across as being too aggressive, I say these things because a lot of emigrants have rose-coloured glasses on when it comes to life in Aus. I wish you all the best for your future, wherever that may be.

Thanks est. your comments were in no way taken wrongly. I Am trying to give anyone whos interested a realistic view of the UK. Its very hard when your sat halfway round the world, and it is easy to get false impressions from some posts. We have had lots of helpfull info re Aus and I often think you lot must be mad coming back here but I might find myself in the same situation someday!

I know after going to Perth how easy it is to get the wrong impressions from just looking at websites. We also went to Sydney and to Newcastle where I lived for a while when I was younger and its funny how all the information you read seems positive but the reality can be very different!

Mart

Its a question of what you want - highest disposable income or quality of life.

I live in South East England and work in IT. Most Software testing jobs are GBP25000 - GBP30000.

The biggest problem is that you cant just say 'move to a cheaper area'. If you want to work in IT, most jobs are IN the south east / london (there are some elsewhere, but not many relatively). Thats the costs associated with the area, and one reason the salaries are what they are.

3 bedroom, nothing special shoebox of a house, council tax is > £1000 per annum. My house next door is let out for £800 per month (3 bedroom). Cars are still v. expensive here.

Like anything, thers good and bad about the UK. Pros and cons, but realistically, nowhere in the world is going to offer higher salaries than they have to without cost of living etc / reflecting that. It all balances out and is about the same.

so you object to the pollution around the shores of Britain but are happy to drive a V8 petrol-guzzling car??

The Australian record on pollution is not too good Either.
What do you think they do with their sewage?

I managed to bring up two Sons in England and help them through University.
I managed to buy a house in a lovely area.
I managed to retire early and can survive quite nicely.

I am moving to Australia for family reasons and because I can.
I can also come back if it does not work out.

I will not knock Britain because it has been good to me and is still a lovely (and here in the Peak district) a peaceful place to live.

Go for the right reasons or you will be sorely disappointed.

G

Absolutley I object to the pollution thats why Id rather drive a V8 car than sit going nowhere in a 1 litre car polluting anyway

The point was each to his own, you choose what suits you best! But the UK, IS NOT CHEAP!!!!!

They handle their sewage like most countries, But hey there's far more coastline down there! Pick the UKs favourite surf in Newquay and swim with all sorts!

As for all the other stuff about bringing up kids, houses retiring etc, I am 35! You obviously have had a longer time (no disrespect)to settle into the UK way of doing things. You are lucky, I am lucky I have a great life in the UK and the UKs a great place to be but what I do at the moment isn't what I call living! I am going because I want a change and a healthier future for my familly.

Out of interest I haven't knocked anything about the UK? Just posted a truthful response to someones post about England being 'not expensive' I for one love lots about the UK but having lived in OZ before I also love lots about Oz.

Mart

Good luck to you Mart.
My post was not aimed at you particularly.
Peoples circumstances differ. Yes I am a fair bit older.
I just Get annoyed when People knock the UK for no reason.
Your post was Ok.Mine was a response to the Knockers in General

Best wishes
G

LOL NP. It seems that wherever we want to go someone is ready to knock us back for it. The thing is it's easy sat here in the UK to realize the problems we face, There are many race issues bubbling in our society, immigration issues are in the papers every day, the news is full of shootings, the schools are good but they are good because they churn out results at the expense of lifestyle IMO, we are headed for Europe without a say and on top of all that it rains most days Why not go somewhere similar thats sunny if you like the sun? We can all come back again!
mart

What a hypocrite!! How can you say you object to pollution AND want to drive a V8 car in the same sentence? Are you really that stupid? How exactly does a V8 car channel through gridlock better than a 1 litre car? Or do you think that there aren't traffic jams in Australia?? And at 60kmh, you reckon your V8 emits less than a 1 litre? You might want to read back over some of the posts from Perth expats regarding city pollution and smog.

Sounds to me you only object to pollution when it inconveniences you....otherwise you don't give a damm.

Yawn, Hypocrite - maybee, stupid - maybee, whatever gets you going. Read the post corerectly and you will see thats not what I said! Stop clogging up posts with mindless nonsense. And write something worthwhile. Like for example, something to do with the fact that England is or is not expensive! It might help!

lauandmart. Why do you think your kids will be healthier in Australia?