jad n rich

Were going back to UK end of year, its a holiday, in all probability it will again raise serious questions/doubts about living in australia. I wont go into it, it just happens.

Regarding schools, our son will be 12, just finishing grade 6 in australia, another year at primary to go, maths for example is times tables, starting division, in other words very easy stuff. If we had been living in the UK he would start high school in september 2005, this is scaring the living hell out of me.

What happens to returning kids around 11/12 do they still have to sit the 11+ to see what high school they can get into? suppose we just waited till hes 13 would we avoid all that. Has anyone any experience changing education systems at such a crucial time and how do they cope with now being years behind Uk schools are supposed to be very rough(if the going to oz forums to be believed) so would keeping a child down a grade be possibe or make the childs life a nightmare?

I realise its going to be hard to find someone who has been in this exact same situation but any advice at all would really be appreciated. Thanks

ags

The 11+ is for grammer schools, or private fee paying. My daughter now 11 is due to start senior school in Sept, no major exams to sit, she is in a local primary school and will sit her SATS tests next month. These tests are to indicate how the school is doing as far as reaching targets, obviously it does give an idea of how the kids are doing too, but bear no relevance to being accepted into a particular school. Unless you are wealthy enough to pay for private education, local secondary schools can be a nightmare. You can apply to 6 schools, but there is no guarantee you will get a place in the one you want. People move houses, give bogus addresses just to try and get their kids into the more decent schools. Kids just seem to be processed, don't have to pass exams to move into the next year, so the figures have just been released that at least 20% of kids are unable to read and write by the time they get to secondary school. How it has come to this I still can't understand, or maybe I can when I look around!
Perhaps the UK schooling is ahead of Australia in some areas, but I would look very carefully at the different areas here before you make any decisions.
Best of luck.

jad n rich

Thanks for the reply. Just bumping it up again, hope some of the returnees from aus and N Zealand might see it and let us know how their kids went.

Nearly had heart failure this week, 11 year olds homework included learning 2X tables still trying to work out if the teacher was having a bit of a joke with them or not!

Linda Maxwell

Hi there, saw that you had bumped this question up. Sorry but I can only tell you that my 15 year old daughter came out of a very good private college in NZ, to grammer school in Scotland to do her highers/A levels. She was so far behind it was shocking. She has worked like a wee demon to catch up, and is hopeful of getting at least her English higher next month, then she can carry on and do her english advanced higher, and she is doing her other higher certs. over 2 years.
Sounds complicated eh! dont know how different the school system is in England, but would guess the standards and exams would be about the same.
Would look to put your child into a smaller more rural school setting, where it would be easier to settle in, and better teacher pupil ratio's exist. My daughter is home amoung her friends that she always kept in contact with, I think that helped her knuckle down, so that she would be in the same year etc.
Be prepared to sit for hours and hours helping with the homework, and having your brain taxed a bit, and keeping regular contact with the school is invaluble, remembering that things have changed since we were at school also helped.
Good luck

scrawni

We have been back in the uk nearly a month now with a 10 year old lad who is in year 6.

Due to Easter holidays he only went back to his old school last Monday. I did feel bad when he came home and told me they all started their SAT's tests that very day! It was Science first and he didn't do as well as he could have and need some catching up. Yet he has since had maths and english and hasn't done that bad, especially with no preparation.

When they get to secondary school they will perform their own tests anyway and it won't be long before he does catch up as he is a bright lad.

I did notice that when in Oz he wasn't pushed as much and had done half the work in year 4 and 5, so I do know where you are coming from with that. Having worked in a secondary school myself I didn't notice much difference in behaviour in either country.

On a positive, he has settled really really well, have had no problems with him and he is very happy to be with his old pals. The school have been positive and have given him some books to do some catch up work.

To be honest, you can worry about it but at the end of the day if he liked his old school and you know the staff then I'm sure that you can work something out with them. Our son feels settled and I think that that is half the battle because they can then concentrate on learning.

So far our move has been positive and our kids are blooming, yes even our 18 year old.

Mandy

heading downunder 2002

Hi Mandy

Good to hear things are going well for you all especially your son Hope you are not finding it too cold and settling back in ok.

Susan

scrawni

Thanks Sue,

Yes we are all fine and slowly getting ourselves sorted

I have a job interview tomorrow so fingers crossed. Hubbie is doing well even if it is nights. As I said, the kids are doing really well. Our son is very settled at school. As for our daughter she had problems at college when we were in Oz so we visited her lecturer and sorted him out so she is now very happy and will continue with her course and hopefully get good grades for uni.

We are just getting the house sorted now. At the moment I am loving being back home and the weather isn't putting me off in the least.

Anyway, thanks again.

Mandy

nursenancy

Don't mean to shed doom and gloom, but my littlen's are in years 3 and 4 and both still have times tables tests (they've done their 12's) and spellings tests weekly. Everything they do in those years really amazes me (we certainly weren't expected to do that stuff at that age)! You might need extra help for your littlen when you come back but I wouldn't worry, for starters its free and your little one will adapt well - kids do! Just think of all the money you'll be saving and you'll be getting a really good education for them! Good luck with your decision!

jad n rich

Hey dont worry about doom and gloom answers, I need honesty here, especially after week 2, brought the 3x tables as homework, remember here we are talking 11 year old.

I think I know this is going to be very difficult, I got two lovely PM's from people who have returned and they confirm what others have said. My kids will be very behind if we ever return.

I have hatched a plan, I am going to try and enrol the kids in UK schools as soon as we arrive for our holiday, even if they can only go for 2 /3 weeks its going to give me some better idea. Not exactly sure if we will be allowed to do this, but will certainly try. The poor kids are going to love me for this holiday idea tho

glittababe

Hi J&R when you coming over? Can confirm what everyone else has said, my two eldest are in year 3 and have also done their 12 x table test plus SATS like you wouldn't believe. My littlest is in Year 1 and has just started reading (he's 5) - and cos of oz he's behind (the other kids have been reading for over a year)! I think some extra homework is needed! We did some home school in oz and the neighbours kids came over one day to help them, both were older (ages 11 and 13) and hadn't a clue about some of the maths and english we were doing. My children aren't above average in any subjects, this was just normal homework emailed over to us by the kids primary school in the Uk to keep them up to date. The aussie kids were well and truly baffled!

I like your plan! Bring them over for some tough schooling.......I mean a holiday!

NZtoUK

Just another lot of scaremongering by the media I think....try this for a fair and balanced analysis of the real state of reading in our Primary/Secondary schools.
Our 8 year old daughter returned from a very prestigious private school in NZ to find herself way behind with many of the basics. Enough said.
Who could be right about reading?
By Mike Baker
BBC News education correspondent

There is nothing like a debate over the teaching of reading to get temperatures rising.

The media over-reacts, politicians jump on bandwagons, parents get worried, and teachers become defensive.

This week, the first of the general election campaign, brought a prime example of this.

The Education Select Committee, in its last throw of this Parliament, published a report which said the figure of one in five pupils failing to reach the expected levels in reading in England was "unacceptably high".

The government took a lot of flak. Ministers clearly felt this was harsh, pointing out that since 1997 the numbers of 11-year-olds reaching the required levels in reading had risen from 67% to 83%.

It could also be argued that there was no benchmark for the numbers of children who should be at the "expected" level.

Premier League readers

Before 1997 no government had ever defined this level of reading skills. Nor were there any targets for what percentage should reach that level.

As for the question of what "expected levels" mean, no-one has ever satisfactorily answered that.

Is it the level of the average child? If so, getting 83% to that level would represent over-achievement.

Or is it the minimum level a child should reach by that age? In which case, 83% may not look quite so good, although if children with special needs (up to 20%, depending on the definition) are discounted it might be regarded as not so bad.


Opinion is divided on the best methods

Definitions aside, however, England's record on reading is actually pretty good when compared with other countries.

But while average reading standards are not as bad as the headlines may have suggested, an important question remains: why the big variation in achievement between schools and pupils?

For independent confirmation of England's good record on reading, you need only turn to the Pirls (Progress in International Reading Literacy Study) report of 2003.

This compared the reading skills of 140,000 10-year-olds in 35 countries. England ranked third, beaten only by Sweden and the Netherlands.

England not only beat similar European countries such as France, Germany and Italy but was also well ahead of the other English-speaking countries in the survey: the United States, New Zealand and Scotland.

Heated debate

However, England also had the widest span of reading abilities. The most able pupils led the world in reading skills. They are premier league readers.

But the least able readers were in the relegation zone: below their equivalents in Latvia, Lithuania, Hungary, the Czech republic, Russia, and Hong Kong.

So what is going wrong with our least able readers? Is it something to do with the way they are taught?

This is where the debate tends to get heated. Reading experts have long waged war over the relative merits of phonics, "real books" and "look-say".

The advocates of phonics (a method of decoding words by learning the sounds of groups of letters) have won most of the recent battles.

From a position of isolation 15 years ago, phonics is now back at the heart of the National Literacy Strategy, the approach which underpins the teaching of reading in English schools.

Any review should proceed very cautiously before rejecting the current mixed economy approach which, for most pupils, is getting pretty good results.

jad n rich

I'll be over with boys for most of dec and january, rich cant make it for that long work has to go on, he'll land in time for Christmas New year. Cant wait wish it was next week, still the weathers like UK november its poured down for 3 weeks now, your not missing much

pmntchambers

Hi

It was interesting to read your message. We have been in Australia for 5 months with a 5 and 8 year old....and I have had the same concerns about schooling. They attend a catholic school, mainly because the state school would have not accepted my 5 year old until July, whereas the catholic allowed him to start in January. He started school last September 2004 in UK.

The standard of work appears to be way behind UK. We are also going back to Europe in December for about six weeks. I'd be interested to find out you get on.

Thanks Michelle

glittababe

ahhh but you need the rain! Weather here is nice, spring definately sprung. Mark and I did some work in the garden yesterday, spruced the place up a bit. It would be nice to see you when you come over! You'll probably be busy with family as its over xmas but we can come to you if you like! We can sit in a pub, in front of a roaring fire! Pure bliss! Speak soon love annie and co

BAY

Wherever you are in the world one of the most important things with regard to childrens education is the parents involvement/interest/enthusiasm etc

Too many parents just hand total responsibility to the school and when the children get home the TV is switched on.

The childs education should be continued at home. When I was a small kid we would play board that involved reading or maths. It would be fun but at the same time I was learning. My parents also spent time reading with me.

I am now doing the same with my son.

So what I'm trying to say is wherever a child is, with their parents support, they'll be fine and will soon catch up if behind.