Boove

Katy, You must be very discouraged about the benefits situation - quite desperate probably. Do you have kids? Don`t you get anything for the kids? I found an interesting website about returning to the UK and getting benefits: http://www.7oakscab.dial.pipex.com/r...in_britain.htm
but I`m not sure if it will tell you anything new. Actually it is a CAB site.

If you don`t mind me asking, why is it so difficult to get a job? Is it because you have no local experience or your qualifications aren`t English? I was, perhaps naively, assuming that I would get a job without too many problems despite the fact I am in my forties and after a few years of doing something very specific here, which I won`t be able to do in the UK, I feel a bit deskilled and out of touch with a lot of things.


As for housing, I think housing associations are a good idea - I should check it out.

bromleygirl

Hi Boove,

So how are things going with you? Have you found out any more info on taking your son back to England with you?

My husband who has been talking to his family recently about our divorce stated to me yesterday that he can stop me from taking our children back to England. I told him he could try but I don't think he will get very far as he would have the same amount of contact with them regardless of where we are. Plus their lifestule wouldn't be any different (it's not like I'm taking them to a third world country) in actual fact I know they will be better off in England educationally.

I'm meeting with a Lawyer soon for a consultation - I intend to be one step ir not two steps ahead of him.

Boove

Hi, Bromley girl, I`m OK. I am meeting the lawyer in two weeks and will take it from there. How awful that your husband refuses to let the kids go, though it doesn`t surprise me. Does he see a lot of them at the moment? If he regularly and frequently has access and lives in the same state, I think the courts would forbid you from leaving with them, if the law is anything like here.
If the situation is similar to mine and he rarely sees them, then I guess you are right: he would have the same amount of contact so it shouldn`t matter.

From my experience and from what I have heard and read, fathers get very angry and will threaten anything, more out of spite against their (former) partner than any real desire to have the kids (especially if they are already shacked up with someone else). ( As I write this I am aware that some readers, especially fathers will protest and say I am being grossly unfair - sorry, nothing personal). So at the end of the day your ex may change his mind. But if you want him to continue to make payments while you are in the Uk you will probably encounter a lot of resistance from him. I don`t know - I guess the lawyer will advise you the best, but it is not an enviable situation.

I have a friend here whose ex lives in Europe. Her son goes to see him 3 weeks at Xmas, all summer, and the father comes and stays here for a few weeks to be with his son. I think it works OK, and the their son seems OK with it. (The father is fortunate to be able to take time off work to come here). Perhaps if your ex had extended visiting rights like that, he might be more open to your moving?

If your only reason for moving is to improve your kids`educational prospects, the court (if it went to court) may not see that as sufficient reason (that is, if your ex has frequent contact with them). If it is a question of it affecting your mental health and well-being, maybe the court would be more sympathetic. Here, the court`s primary concern is for the well-being of the cilldren so they would rule on what they thought was best for the child.

I don`t really know. Let`s just hope that your ex cools down after having talked to his family and changes his mind, and that it won`t have to go to court.

Englishmum

:lecture:

Ladies; before returning to the UK with your children, take a look at this website (found via a link on www.britain-info.org, the official UK govt. website).

It's advice from a British charitable organisation called 'Reunite' which deals with international child abduction. There are a lot of FAQs and it has a section about parents who take their children into the UK.

The section about children taken into the UK says this: Under the 'Hague Convention', countries which have signed up for it take the view that the consent of *both* parents or guardians should be sought before removing a child from his habitual residence (ie. lived there for 12 months or more) otherwise it is considered as 'wrongful removal'. The UK, USA and most Canadian States are signatories. A final decision by the (UK) courts on which country the child should reside will not be made until the child is first returned to the place of 'habitual residence'.

It seems that 'Reunite' also offers a mediation service and helpful booklets, plus an advice line and e-mail plus fax enquiry service, so perhaps it's a good idea to get information from them *before* leaving the US and Canada. There is also a list of International lawyers (inc. the US and Canada) who may be able to advise on legal issues before returning to the UK.

I hope that your issues can be resolved and that the wishes of the children as to where they would like to live are the paramount considerations of all parties before you make a final decision to return to Blighty. If not, I guess you may need to hang in there until they're 18. Good Luck!

http://www.reunite.org

bromleygirl

Thanks for the link English Mum

My husband and I are not divorced yet. Also I don't consider where I am at right now to be my "habitual residence". I've only been living here for 2 years and before that we were in another state for 5 years as my husband was in the Air Force.

I know that when we split next year my husband will either move to Colorado or Florida. If we were to remain here or move to the UK his amount of visitation with our children would be the same, therefore I think I will have a good basis to argue that he can't stop my move with the children back to the UK.

He already has custody of his 3 sons from a previous marriage so I know he would not be able to deal with havign custody of our two. I do want my children to have a relationship with their Father. Just beucase our relationship has failed doesn't mean that my husband relationship with their Father should end.

I intend to get him to agree to joint legal custody and visitation arrnagements and make sure that it is fair for everyone involved.

Boove

I consulted international lawyers in England some time ago, and Canadian lawyers too, at a time when my ex was still living in the same neighbourhood as my son and I. As englishmum says the law says that both parents have to give consent if the move is from the place of habitual residence, but as I understood it, that is if both parents are resident also in this place of habitual residence. However, if one of the parents has gone to the other side of the country, many miles away from "habitual residence" then the situation may be different.

In Canada, by law, I think that the court does not start to take the child`s wishes into consideration until s/he is 9 or 12 (I can`t remember which). I have no idea of the law in the States.

Bromleygirl, when you say that your husband already has custody of 3 children, does he have sole custody? Do they live with you? Do you think that the courts (if it came to it going to court) might see that the fact he already has sole custody of 3 children may be proof that he is capable of looking after more kids (ie your two)? I`m now thinking of the worst-case scenario if he tries to fight you for custody of your children.

I know here that a parent with sole custody has more leeway to move than a parent who has joint custody arrangements with another parent. You may want to bear that in mind when making custodial arrangements. Again, I don`t know how it works for the US.

It would be so good if you could sort it out amongst yourselves rather than leave it to the whim of a judge who may have got out of bed the wrong side that morning. I was in your situation some years ago, acted honourably and made certain decisions with the best of intentions. I could not have predicted how it would turn out. With hindsight I would have reacted differently to certain situations (but I have no intention of going public with any of that and anyway, my general philosophy in life is to have NO REGRETS!)

Anyway, I guess your lawyer will be able to advise you further.

bromleygirl

It s along story Boove but in a nut shell mu husband's ex-wife gave him physical custody of their 3 children - they have joint physical custody and she has visitation rights. They have lived with us for the last 8 years before we were even married so I have been a "mother" figure to them.

I'm pretty sure that my husband would not want to have physical custody as he has said he does not want to be a single parent of 5!

I am probably 80% sure that he would not stop me from taking our children to the UK. We've talked about contact and visitation. If we can agree on everything and have a custody aggrement drawn up then we should not end up in court.

Still with this in mind I want to know where I stand leagally before I start proceedings. I'll let you know what I find out from the Lawyer on Friday.

Boove

It sounds pretty straightforward - thank goodness! Good luck on Friday.

Boove

bromleygirl, how did it go with the lawyer?

JeanDupont

Hi Boove - what part of UK are you thinking of going back to? You may find that UK has changed quite a lot since you have been away.
Housing associations and councils often have long waiting lists in the South East of England but its easier to get public housing or affordable housing in the North.
If you want a one way ticket then you can book cheaper ones on www.flyzoom.com but they don't run all year round.

Boove

It would probably be the south coast - East Sussex. I know that public housing, especially anything half decent, would be hard to get and even in the cheaper places in this region property prices have soared. Actually, it is the prospect of finding housing that I find most daunting.
Thanks for the link on cheap flights. I`ll check it out!