Beccarose

In another thread grammar schools are mentioned and I was hoping (sorry for the complete lack of knowledge here) to find out just what a grammar school is and are they recommended over 'regular' schools? What is the difference between schools? I only know of 'religious' 'state' and 'independent'- and those ones I understand, but am lost from there.

rebs

Typically, when we talk about 'grammar' schools, what we mean are state schools which select their pupils based on academic ability.

Beccarose

Thank you. How does one tell if a school is a grammar school or not? Will it be called as such?

rebs

Most of them will have 'grammar' in the name, but not always - for example near me Bournemouth School for Girls is a grammar - not that you would necessarily tell from the name!

Confusingly, some private schools also have 'grammar' in the name.

The only way to tell for sure what the status of a particular school is, is to check their website. That will say if the school is a selective school. If you then drill down into their admissions policy, you will see how they go about selecting their pupils.

If you don't know an area, you could start by looking at the local council website for a list of schools in the area, but I'm not sure if you would easily be able to tell the status of each school from the council website.

This is a website and forum that I have used before and found useful - http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/ you might find that this is helpful in locating where selective schools are around the country.

abi31

And be aware that many state schools that used to be grammars still retain the title in their name, though are not selective and are no better than any other state school.

Harrogate Grammar and Tadcaster Grammar being two examples local to me.

North Yorkshire has 3 remaining grammar schools and only 2 of them have the word in their titles

Beccarose

Thank you.

So in what ways does a grammar school differ from a state school? I know they are selective in who they select but does the teaching/curriculum vary? Is it better to aim for a grammar school and if so, in what ways is it better?

Homeiswheretheheartis

Hi Beccarose

I've mentioned Grammer Schools on here, as where I lived in the UK, our area still have Grammer Schools.

Grammer schools are still state schools, the only difference is that you have an entrance exam (known as the 11+), children are not interviewed, it is just who passes the exam and location (e.g local children first).

In my town there is an all girls grammer, an all boys grammer and a mixed acadamy (will explain further down).

Not all counties have grammer schools, I lived in Lincolnshire who still have them, not all towns in Lincolnshire have a grammer school.

All schools follow the National Curriculum, only differences are what you will find between any school. Some schools specialize in particular areas such as sport/science but that only means the school has in place good sports/science facilities and program.

Peoples opinion on wether a grammer is better will depend on the area you choose to live. If the grammer is the only good school in the area and the alternative is a failing school, of course everyone will try to go. But, in my town the Acadamy is equally as good as the grammers, so I know people (including this year) who have passed the exam and turned down a place at the grammer school. When I return I will be very happy for my son to go to the local Acadamy and he is very academically gifted.

As for what an Acadamy is, well they are normal schools that have choosen to take direct funding and are not directly under the control of local government. You will find again opinons vary on this, you will find posts that say its the worst thing that has every happened and others that say its good. All I can tell you is that our Acadamy in the UK, isn't any different to what is was a couple of years ago before it changed. Not all towns have Acadamys.

Just to confuse you more, did you hear they are changing the exams from GCSEs to an English Baccalaureate for children to start the courses in 2015 and the exam in 2017. My son will the first to take it

If I can help with any more info on the UK schools I'm happy to help.

rebs

The kind of grammar that I have been talking about is still a state school - ie they are funded by the government and do not charge fees for pupils to attend.

If a grammar school has converted to an academy status (still a state school - see details attached here http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/sch...academy-status) then they do have the right to opt out of teaching the national curriculum.

If a grammar school has not converted to an academy, then it will be bound by the national curriculum.

I guess 'better' is a subjective term - obviously what is better is a school where your child thrives and attains their full potential.

Schools here are often judged by their position in the performance league tables - http://www.education.gov.uk/schools/performance/ it's not a terribly user friendly site, but you might find it useful to have a nose around for any areas you are considering.

Generally, you are likely to find that in most areas the academically selective state schools (whether or not they have academy status) will be showing better results than non selective state schools in the same area.

I should add that all of my comments relate only to schools in England, not Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland

Beccarose

Ok, I understand a bit more about this. But just to make sure I get it, does a regular non-grammar state school have to accept anyone? What if it's a particularly good one and everyone is trying to get their children in, does it then go by location- those closest?

For anyone familiar with US schools, UK academy schools sound just like US charter schools- is this correct?

Homeiswheretheheartis: would you then prefer your son go to the academy school over the grammar school?

Basically it just comes down to what area one is considering, correct? So our best bet would be to figure out the areas that would fit us best (much easier said than done...) and then take a look at the schools and narrow it even further from there?

rebs

Glad we are helping you to understand things - I know it can be very confusing

There is no obligation for any one school to take any particular pupil. The obligation is that the local authority has to provide a school place for pupils in their area.

All state schools will have an admissions policy which details how they prioritise in the event of over subscription.

I am not familiar with all the nuances of US charter schools, but I have read one or two articles which do suggest that they are similar.


Yes, I think it will come down to looking in detail at the schools in a particular area.

Here's a suggested guide to choosing a school - http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/sch...osing-a-school but it does presuppose that you are looking at one particular location.

Beccarose

Again- thank you! I guess the whole 'over subscription' thing confuses me, I had never heard of it until looking into UK schools, it got me thinking 'well, what would happen if a US school had too many students' and I'm not really sure. We do sometimes have massive class sizes but I'd never really thought about 'too' many. How does a certain school come up with it's capacity?

Do schools offer school buses or how do children get to and from school?

Is there a stated age where kids can legally be on their own after school? I know there are after school programs and clubs, whatnot but what if a child's parents work and they don't have any interest in the offered after school programs?
I imagine the after school clubs, etc cost?

Mummy in the foothills

It does happen here in the US, our local school was over subscribed for a few years, and they had a sign in the office for new parents coming in during term time to get kids in, they would be offered a place in the next closest school, and the school bus would take them.

Beccarose

You know come to think of it you're right and I have heard of it. I know some schools are just so popular that even the out of area kids are trying to get into them. And I suppose it works the other way too, there is just not a large enough of a school for the amount of students in the area.
But I don't think it's common.

I'm wondering just how often this happens in England, where schools are over subscribed?

Mummy in the foothills

From the talk on here it seems to be a big city and SW thing. I know the school where we are moving to are not over subscribed, in fact they have been closing some village schools and combining them due to low enrollment. The one we hope to get Dd into in the village where we will be so she can walk, only has 80 students from Nursery through to the end of juniors, then they all go on to the towns for the high school and theres a choice of three high schools in three different directions.

mikelincs

Usually buses are available for pupils living more than a certain distance from school, in certain cases it may not be a bus, but a taxi depending on the number of pupils needed to be picked up, some times it is a regular service bus that starts at the school, but will pick up other, non school, people on the way as long as there is sufficient space. Up to the late 1960's UK state schools were divided into 'Grammar' and 'Secondary modern' and admission depended on how well a pupil did in the 11+ exam, pass and you went to the Grammar, fail and you went to the Secondary modern. This meant that the academically better pupils went to Grammar schools, and virtually all university places were allocated to them and the 'public' schools. The system was changed and the majority of schools became 'comprehensive' and covered all abilities. A few did retain the original grammar school status and still choose pupils on ability at the age of 11.