This may sound a bit generalised (sorry!), but in reading through these threads I get the impression that those of you who've left and settled in their new country have been the ones who badly wanted to leave the UK, and those who've not settled and who've come back (or are planning to, or wish they could) are those who had no particular gripes with the UK, but wanted to see if they could make a new life in a new place. Most returnees, in other words, missed the UK - the climate, the places, family, friends - even if they liked their new country.

I'm about half-way through the FSW application process to go to Canada. I've worked for a short time in the States and have travelled and holidayed in Canada. The States would be my preferred destination - but Canada is close enough, and I qualify for there whereas I don't for the States. I don't really have any close family or friends here and don't feel 'connected' to this country in any way - culturally, socially or geographically - though I don't actually dislike it. Somehow, I think I'll feel at home in Canada.

BUT... with things starting to happen, I'm beginning to wonder if it will, after all, be the right thing. Some of the fears I have are fears that have been expressed in these threads: not fitting in, not finding the right work, feeling isolated. On top of that, I'm just 50 - maybe a little late to be making such a huge change. I can't know until I do it, of course. I'd be interested to hear, though, what people think are the main things for and against going. What led you to the original decision to go? And what made you, in the end, want to come back?

I started an email and bloody lost it..here we go AGAIN. Tom - I left UK in 1984 at age 22. came to US primarily to see father whom had not seen in about 17 years. Also grew up with no family in UK. At certain age asked myself there has to be more than this. came to US - loved my dad but my stepmother made life difficult for me and my brother to point where for most of the years until my dad's death in 2002 we hardly saw him. Have I done well in US - yes materially - house, car, education, money in bank. Personally - hell no. I have no connections here other than my brother and sister. I have friends but they aren't like the friends I have back home in Preston. At Xmas time and my birthday I get plenty of cards from back home in UK - from US lucky if I get one. I say that just to point out I have closer ties back in UK still after being here 25 years. I have some wonderful friends here but they are not the type of the "ties that bind"..I am only couple of years younger than you -I've learned more from my failures than successes. Please don't let your age stop you from going to Canada. One thing you can be certain of - you will age, how you choose to spend your time is up to you - the progress of time is beyond your control. So MartianTom - do it, give it a good shot (don't give up after few months) and it may be best thing you ever did. If you feel down road moving to Canada not right decision - England will always be there. I keep getting warned about how much how UK has changed - fully aware as I go back fairly often. I cannot let that turn me off - I may make wrong decision but for me US will always be here. I'm fortunate as I have dual citizenship. Good luck - go for it..

I'm not sure that can be answered.

We're definitely in the group of people who emigrated without disliking the UK, or thinking it didn't have a future. And we have stayed a long time, so we don't hate it here.

To be honest, I find the idea of moving to another country for a better future for the kids very odd. If we'd had kids, I don't think we'd have done it. Wouldn't have taken them away from extended family, and wouldn't have wanted to raised them in a culture and system we don't really get 30 years later. There's a lot of stuff underneath a culture, and definitely a lot underneath scenery and choice of housing, and it the end I think it's what matters.

We're going back to see what's underneath in the UK, because our feeling from frequent trips back, is that we're still in tune with it, and really aren't here, after all this time. One trivial thing -- we haze zero, minus zero, interest in ice hockey. Here, that's a problem. (Can you tell I'm overdosed on playoff excitement at the moment?)

Can you look at your move as a 2 year adventure, making sure you will be in a situation to return without problems? Then I'd say, absolutely. Do it. If not, I'd think a lot more about why, what you think you'll gain, and whether you can get that without total uprooting.

What do you think is going to be better in Canada. There are lots of ways it's better than the UK, and lots of ways it's worse. IMO. And where would you go?

Bev

I had another thought. Martian Tom. Where were you born and raised?

Going north to south or south to north in the UK can be like going to another planet!

Bev

We didn't hate the UK either. Had good jobs, good earnings, lived in a nice area and my best friends I knew for most of my life. We had holidayed in Canada a few times and must say that we felt a definite pull towards Canada and not a push from the UK.

So maybe your theory is the wrong way round.

Should also say that we were 43, 50, 12 and 16 when we moved over 2 years ago and we have felt at home since the day we landed. To be honest, living in Nova Scotia is no huge culture shock to us because we came from Scotland and the Scottish (and Irish) heritage is very strong here. We probably have less differences to cope with than say someone moving to Alberta.

The best advice I can offer for anyone moving abroad is embrace your new country (and its differences) and to network, network, and network some more. Once you get a circle of friends around you will definitely start to feel part of the community and maybe it won't be long before it feels like home

Hi there
Have been giving this subject some thought as we are evaluating a return to the UK having lived in the US for four years. We weren't leaving the UK for any particular reason, we were heading for the US to see what that would bring (simplistic explanation but you get my drift!). Although there are elements that are drawing us to look at a return "home", I would never discourage someone from a relocation. I would simply caution the burning of any bridges, and a concentration on keeping options open. That's not to say you want to be thinking of the relocation failing before you've even begun, but if you have options to return to where you leave (say keeping a house rather than selling it for example), you will have an easier passage than if you've sold up (as we did) and then have to start over. In short, you are so right in that you just don't know anything for real until you try it, so...........try it, but keep your options to return open!

That sounds like the best way of looking at it.

Why did I decide to apply? Perhaps the same reasons as a lot of people: an adventure, the promise of a new (and perhaps better) life. I've always loved the States - I worked and travelled out there as a student - and have always felt... I dunno... psychologically like I was born in the wrong country, if that makes sense. Most of my cultural interests - literature, art, music, history, cinema - are American. Even sport! I have no interest in soccer or cricket, but I love baseball. There's a bit of a romantic aspect to it too, of course - but not so much as to blind me. Well... I can't get into the States. But I can get into Canada, which is as close as I can get. I've also travelled and holidayed in Canada, and have felt a strong sense of affinity with the country whenever I've been. My maternal grandmother worked for 4 years in Saskatchewan when she was in her late teens - back in 1910 or so - and a couple of years ago I visited the place where she lived; I had a sense then that I can only describe as 'coming home' (a friend referred to it as a 'genetic memory trace', though I'm not so sure about that). She moved back to England in 1914, fully intending to return - but she met my grandfather in London, and that was that. Partly, then, there's an element of completing the circle. She always loved Canada, and always spoke about it fondly. Regina is one area I've looked at, near where she lived. I don't like city living, but Regina seems right - not too big, but with enough of the important things. I'm not sure what I'll gain - but I hope it's more of a sense of feeling 'at home' than I feel in the UK. I was born and raised in London, spent my teens in Devon, and have lived in Kent now for 30 years. None of those places feel like home to me now. I couldn't go back to London (though it's nice to have it close), Devon has changed too much, and Kent - well, it's just the place where I happen to be right now. That's all it really means to me.

I guess most people would say that the right way forward - given that you can never know until you try - is to do it and see. I don't feel that I have a lot to leave behind. Most of my close friends have moved away. I'm not close with any of my family, except my mother , who lives near to me. She's elderly and not in the best of health, so it'll be a huge wrench. I dread the thought of being thousands of miles away if anything happened. But I have her blessing. It just comes down, now, to whether I have the guts to actually go ahead with it... and I'm definitely not good with decision-making. Are there other options? Of course there are. Maybe I should lower my sights. On the other hand.... well, you know the rest...

Well... I rent a small flat and have hardly any possessions (took my Thoreau to heart!), so it probably wouldn't make much difference either way. I'd probably just sell what I HAVE got, pack a rucksack, and start completely anew when I get there. I'm not so worried about not having anything to come back to. I'll work it out, if the eventuality arises - even if it means sleeping in a tent for a while. I'm lucky in that, materially, I'm pretty unencumbered.

We came to Australia with a baby 30 years ago because we had a good offer, an opportunity not to be missed so we didnt miss it. However we got in a rut and are now stuck here - well I am stuck, the OH is an Aussie so he is in clover, he is "home" and he is particularly reluctant to move back to UK even though I would go in a heartbeat.

We had no dissatisfaction with UK, we were just young adventurers, we had already lived in PNG and UK and so were quite prepared to move anywhere except we both got bogged down in careers and then the kids got older and we couldnt move and now we are retired, it would be quite challenging, I know that.

We have one son who has chosen to emigrate back to UK, got himself a recession proof job with good career prospects and doesnt seem to be thinking he will be back for another 10 years at least - he went for a gap year, 7 years ago

I dont think I ever thought that I would grow old and die here, I thought there would always be that option to move back, maybe half a year about which would be ideal and fair to both of us but OH wont even come at that.

It's the thought of an old age here which fills me with dread. If anything were to happen to OH then I would be gone - I would leave one son and granddaughter without a backwards glance because I still have quite a few visits in me. Every year when I leave home to return to where my OH is (see, I cant even call it home) my heart breaks and it takes longer and longer to get over it (still teary after 11 days). It's just that ephemeral belongingness which I dont feel here, never have and whilst it was still an adventure, a holiday that didnt matter but now the holiday is over and I want to go home. I know where I belong, warts and all.

Emigrated to Canada in 2003 - returned to UK 2004 - now with three kids thinking Canada might be best option ... why?

For what it’s worth …

Reasons for coming back to the UK in 2003 … or so I thought …

1. We could fly to Europe every weekend … you can’t do that in Canada you know … guess what - its not so do’able with 3 kids and big mortgage as maybe I had convinced myself it would be …

2. I missed my family & friends … again guess what … I see less of them know that I used to … kids seem to be very ‘demanding’ time-wise …

3. The PUB … if I get out once a month it’s been a good month

4. Culture #1 … I do love the old fabric of the UK (hence Chester as a resettlement location on our return) and I know I’ll miss it (though I didn’t have an architecturally appreciative bone in my body before 2003) … but is that a good enough reason to stay???

5. Culture #2 ... one of the things that really ‘p*ssed’ me off in 2003 was that I couldn’t buy beer other than from a govt. off-licence … don’t know why but it did – I think it justified (for me) what at the time, was a long list of things that were ‘backward’ about Canada ... I wasn't in a 'good place'

So now back in the UK where you can buy a beer ANYWHERE all I see are pissed 13, 14, 15 year olds wobbling down the street every weekend, beer cans, vomit and very overweight ‘lass’s’ flashing their boobs just before falling into the gutter …

Not only don’t I want my kids seeing that … I don’t want them doing it in 10 years time … though I’m sure there is a Canadian equivalent!!!

Reasons for thinking we made a bad call in returning (now that we have 3 kids) ….

1. Weather is a biggie … for us weather = lifestyle!!!

Maybe I’m looking back with gold rimmed specs but we don’t seem to have a summer anymore … the kids seem have spent the last 2 / 3 summer holidays inside our house or inside a ‘play barn’ and I’m not sure I’ve had shorts on since 2005.

We seem to move from autumn (grey and mild) to winter (grey and damp) to spring (grey and wet) to summer (grey and warm … ish.)

I’m not sure what you do in Winter / Spring (and I’m not being sarcastic in asking) but there is only so many times you can go to the Albert Dock, Liverpool Museum or for a walk in the park … I’d like to take my kids Skiing, maybe go Storm watching etc.

Summer activities … ? yeah I could go camping in North Wales or kayaking on the Irish Sea in ‘summer’ … but frankly I’d like not to have to take 3 different types of cloths for the kids depending on ‘what the weather might do … I’d like to maybe go out sailing or camping and come home with a suntan???

In summary, weather (at least for us more ‘fair weather types) = lifestyle … we’ve had probably 5 BBQ’s since we’ve been back and I’d be surprised is 4 of those haven’t been of the ‘inside’ variety …

2. Places vs. Activities …

Sort of tied into the weather again but the UK seems to be about ‘seeing places’ or ‘shopping’ … Canada seems to be more about ‘doing things’ … and we really want that for our kids ...

There has got to more to life on a Saturday than shopping …??? It drives us insane, but as a nation we seem to have no imagination (generalisation I admit) than to maybe (and only if we are feeling adventurous) going to Manchester Trafford Shopping Centre as opposed to Liverpool One Shopping Centre

3. Work / Life Balance …

Again I’m not sure of your experience but houses are so bloody expensive here that it usually takes both parents working to make the finances work on a monthly basis … certainly that’s how it is with most of our friends …

Sal and I made a decision when Ryan was born that we’d like to be able to have her stay at home and raise the kids and so far, luckily, it has paid off i.e. we don’t have a lot left over each month and I’m out each morning before 8 and not usually back before 7 / 7.30 most nights but we’ve done OK but equally my kids are growing up and I seem to be missing it …

Equally we’re getting to the limit of space at the moment i.e. the two boys share and Indie has the ‘box room’ so what do we do next … loft extension (£20-£25k) or 4 bedroom house (extra £50k) … that means me changing job (probably to Manchester to get the wage I’d need) or Sal going back to work …

4. City vs. Rural …

I’m not sure where you are in the NW but is its anything like here the further you want to live away from the City the MORE expensive it is i.e. our house in a village in Cheshire would probably be 30-50% more expensive … which is a bit of a bugger as we’d like to live in a rural community ...

Hence Cowichan ... ideally a self supporting rural community (one where you can buy some groceries and go to dinner) … Mill Bay / Cobble Hill ... and then travel to work in the City …

5. Different Opportunities …

This maybe unrealistic but I want my kids to have different work opportunities than they would have available to them here (ski-instructor, raft instructor, adventure tours vs. the office ….???)

I’d like to have different opportunities myself … I’ve been working in the business services sector for 20 years (business / management consultancy, IT, operations etc.) and I’m BORED BORED BORED !!!!!

In summary … we need a change and if its not now – then it ain’t going to be later ??

I had it all sorted out in my head and then I come across this post

I would suggest staying in Canada for three years, getting your citizenship and then moving to USA. Although Canada (especially in Ontario) looks very much like the USA with the same food, environment etc...the two countries are a million miles apart ideologically. You will not find the USA 'psychology' in Canada.

A really heartfelt post, quoll. Oz has never really appealed to me, though a niece of mine went out there for a holiday when she was 18, met and married an Australian, and has been there ever since - and loves it. She's in her late 20s now. I can't begin to imagine the bravery it took to do such a thing at such a young age - leaving her family, the town of her birth, everything she knew. There are no guarantees, though - as you clearly know. My fears are exactly the ones you express - and, being 50, I wonder if I'm really chancing my arm with this move. I've only ever known the UK - which is possibly why, paradoxically, I'm so tired of it... and will probably miss it so much when I leave. I don't feel any particular 'love' for it, and there are things about it that I find stifling and irksome. But might I be casting off one set of grievances for another set of an entirely different and unexpected calibre? Hmm... I'm still thinking...

Thanks, audreyrose. Sounds like good advice. Out of interest, I wonder how you'd summarise the psychology in Canada.

Sorry if I stirred things up for you, Andy! Whatever, thanks for your insights. For myself, well... weather's not such an issue. Personally, I don't mind the not-so-cold winters, and hot summers aren't something that bother me too much, either. You spoke about the summers, but how did you find the winters, with months of snow and double-figure minus temperatures? I know they're much more fixed up to deal with it out there - but didn't you eventually get fed up with week after week after week of snow? I ask because I have a friend in Saskatchewan, born there and lived there all her life, and although she's always been used to the winters, she doesn't enjoy them in the least. She always sounds envious when I tell her we had about 5 days of snow in total in Kent.

In other ways, my circumstance is quite different to yours. I have no children, for one thing - fortunate in some ways... but not in others: I'd love to be a father. I live in a small rented flat, have few possessions... and do a job I absolutely love (support worker with special needs adults), which pays wages not a great deal above the minimum. I've downsized considerably in the last few years since my divorce, and can live comfortably on an income of £800 a month, working 4 days a week (a work/life balance that suits me down to the ground) - and still have a few quid left over to save! When I holiday, I usually go to Europe, and I like having it close - one of the things I'll certainly miss. My life is austere by most standards, but it suits me. I would hope to continue as I am if I go to Canada. It's not the thought of more money, better job opportunities and a higher standard of living that draws me: it's more to do with the geography, the culture, and (hopefully) the more laid back way of life.

I have a friend out there, in Ottawa, who says I sound intrinsically like a Canadian! What do you think? From your experience, do you think the sort of motives that draw me are ones that are likely to be realised?

Good luck to you, anyway, mate. I hope, if you do decide to go back, it works out for you. I've been in the position myself of not knowing I had the right thing until I DIDN'T have it any more. Maybe we just have to go through all that stuff to get the necessary perspective. It's a bloody pain... but it's how life is, I guess.

I think that once you have made the decision that you want to move to another country then you are best to go and give it a go, and, if it doesn't work out then at least you will have given it a try and won't be wondering 'what if....' for the rest of your life.
I personally, am glad that we have lived in Oz, i feel i have learnt more about myself, and i am looking forward to returning to the UK, where i 'belong'.