Mallory

Always good to look at statistics.

http://www.pop.org/content/cancer-su...eat-britain-us

Celticspirit

Very interesting.....thanks

nun

Yep the NHS does badly in cancer survival when compared to other developed nations. This is probably because of later screening norms in the UK. The early screening and detection of many cancers in the US also inflates the 5 years survival statistics, but cancer treatment is an area where the NHS needs to improve because they are worse than in many EU countries that have similar screening regimes.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7510121.stm

Unfortunately the excellent survival rates for the insured in the US are not seen in the uninsured population. So it's probably better to say that if the guy in the NYT piece had lived in the UK, or had been insurance in the US, he would probably be alive today. The difficulty in access to healthcare for many is the big problem with the US system, not the standard of care if you can afford it.

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/can...d-conclusions/

robin1234

Ah yes, the Population Research Institute; "the country's largest and most influential right-wing foundation"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populat...arch_Institute
Grinding their axe a bit??

nun

They do have a certain point of view, so the statistics they quote need to be researched rather than taken at face value. The early screening for cancer in the US is probably a good thing, although some studies say that unnecessary treatments actually produce worse outcomes, but it inflates the survival statistics which is why the US numbers looks so good when compared to the UK. However, the US does provide excellent treatment to those with insurance and also to those without insurance when the eventually get care....they'll also probably become bankrupt. But he UK certainly needs to improve as when compared to systems where the age distribution of cancer patients is similar, the UK is still way down the table.

chris955

37 pages, woohoo

robin1234

NHS in the title of a thread? Guaranteed to go around the houses and back again several times..!

chris955

And up the road, round and round the roundabout and down the pub more than once I would say.

robin1234

Now you're talking. On that subject, they used to give you a bottle of Mackeson each day in hospital in England.. can't see that happening in a US hospital.

dunroving

And a Guinness after giving blood. I went to donate with a friend and it turned out I wasn't allowed (I think it was because I was taking hay fever medication), but they gave me a Guinness anyway. Now THAT'S what I call world-class medical care!

robin1234

That's a point; if I came back to live in the UK again, I'd be allowed to donate blood! As someone who lived in the UK during the 1980s, they don't want my blood over here..

Giantaxe

A lot, I'd say. The reality is that many die of cancer in the US and don't even figure in those statistics because they don't seek treatment until they are dying and visit an emergency room. Plus, as one of nun's links points out, earlier detection - which will boost five year survival rates - doesn't necessarily mean better outcomes.

That's not to defend the NHS though:- it does a very poor job in this regard compared to most other western nations. The figures for countries like France and Switzerland - both of which have almost universal healthcare - are significantly better.

Bevm

I had a little poke around the statistics quoted, because a 98% 5 year survival rate for breast cancer in the US isn't believable.

As best I could tell from official US statistics, that figure is for very early detection, and that's credible. The UK figure quoted in comparison is for all breast cancers.

Therefore, I don't believe any of the above stats.

I'm not sure why anyone's criticizing early detection in the UK. Mammograms are offered to all women over a certain age. Not sure what it is right now. Also cervical screening for all women. Have blood in a bowel movement and you'll get a colonoscopy, and the GP can request it within 2 weeks if they see urgency. Lose weight, become anemic, the GP will order tests. I gather doctors are always wanting to check men's prostates. What else should be done?

Bev

robin1234

Yeah Mallory will be back with a closely reasoned temperate answer soon.

dunroving

I'm not sure doctors actually want to check men's prostates. Except the really weird ones.