Proving I'm English for University
 

Hello,

While a lot of Universities seem to accept applying with a French Bac who has over 12/20 in English, some of the more prestigious ones seem to want some kind of proof. I was wondering if this is proof enough?

-British Citizenship
-Brevet with an international option
-19.75/20 average in English (right now, not likely to change by much up to then)


I could also just have a conversation with them for a few seconds to prove I'm 100% British, though I'm guessing that's not an option.

Re: Proving I'm English for University
 

A British passport won't be much use if your education has been in French. Your English language score on the other hand will be useful.

Re: Proving I'm English for University
 

Hi,
I suppose they consider that someone applying from France hasn't had a "British" education, with everything associated (History, Literature, Culture,....) and may not be 100% English.
For example, my two daughters have dual nationality, but since they've lived all their lives in France with a French father, they probably wouldn't be considered "English" enough from a prestigious Uni's point of view, with simply a good French Bac in hand.
It can't do any harm to ring them up, in the hopes of getting through to an academic, but I thought you were in 2nde?

Re: Proving I'm English for University
 

It's not a question of citizenship or identity rather whether your education was primarily conducted in English or another language. If it's the latter than you'll need evidence of your English language ability. Plenty of non-native speakers of English attend "prestigious" British universities.

Re: Proving I'm English for University
 

Here's an example of English language requirements for entrance to a "prestigious" British university:

https://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/unde...rements?wssl=1

If the OP Googles "[name of university] English language requirements", &/or contacts the relevant admissions office(s), it's fairly straight forward.

As BiP points out, "being British" isn't a criteria if one has been educated in another language.

Re: Proving I'm English for University
 

I was educated in english in certain subjects (english and history) as demonstrated by my OIB Brevet.

That's clearly not accepted anywhere so I'll take the TOEFL, I suppose. I just find it a bit silly when I'm as good at English as any other GB student. But there seems to be no other alternative.

Re: Proving I'm English for University
 

Have you contacted the educational establishments ( that you are interesting in applying to) directly to confirm their exact requirements?

It's interesting, & perhaps relevant to note that the "L'OIB n'est pas un diplôme franco-étranger (aucune reconnaissance n'est garantie � l'étranger, contrairement aux diplômes obtenus dans le cadre des sections binationales). Il ne s'agit pas non plus du diplôme privé délivré par l'IBO (International Baccalaureate Organization), qui n'est pas un diplôme d'Etat ni un diplôme français et qui ne donne pas le droit d'entrer dans l'enseignement supérieur que confère le baccalauréat."

(My bold).

Re: Proving I'm English for University
 

So my useless diploma is doubly useless...:rofl:

Re: Proving I'm English for University
 

That's not what I said. I was merely pointing out, or intended to do so, that your "diplôme" is not automatically recognised in the UK. To rephrase: expect some hoop-jumping to be required for UK uni entry; be pleasantly surprised if/when it isn't.

Re: Proving I'm English for University
 

I understood. If it isn't automatically accepted, it's not useful if it's done case by case.

Re: Proving I'm English for University
 

Just out of curiosity, are you aiming for Oxbridge? Or similar? And what do you intend/hope to study at university?

Re: Proving I'm English for University
 

Chemistry. I don't think I could get high enough grades for Oxbridge.

Re: Proving I'm English for University
 

Hmmm. Chemistry... Yeah, I can see how you'd need excellent grades to get into Uni in the UK. However, Oxbridge doesn't top the tables for the "best" place to go for chemistry, & other places require higher points, so there's that... ;). Where would you like to go, all things being equal?

I know we have quite a few professors hanging around in here from time to time, perhaps they'll pop in to this thread & put in their tuppenceworth ;).

Fwiw for chemistry, Imperial College, Bristol, York, Newcastle, spring to mind. All of whom detail English language requirements quite thoroughly on their websites.

:).

Re: Proving I'm English for University
 

Imperial College and Bristol both want 15 to 16/20 for the Bac itself and in all "relevant" (not looked into what those are fully, but I'll assume biology, physics-chemistry and maths) subjects. York and Newcastle seemed to want a far more achievable 12-13 (which is still something like BBB or BBC once you convert it, I think).

Re: Proving I'm English for University
 

Newcastle: "If English is not your first language you will need to provide a recognised English language test or qualification."

English is my first language and mother-tongue, but how would this be proven in the first place?

EDIT: Nevermind, English nationals are exempt from proving anything at Newcastle.

Re: Proving I'm English for University
 

Also, something hilarious from York.

"Four full years of study in Canada, in English or French, at the high-school level"


"Hello sir, could you prove you speak English?"

"Oh yes, I learned French for four years."

Re: Proving I'm English for University
 

Hi, is it possible for a British citizen educated in France to take one of the Cambridge Proficiency exams mentioned in the above link? If so, you could do so between now and the Bac, and there's your qualification, even if your chosen Uni doesn't require it.
P.S. Have you changed your mind and aren't going to study SVT after all?

Re: Proving I'm English for University
 

:rofl: See, I DID say it was worth looking at individual establishments' EL requirements :sneaky:

Son did some desultory research on the subject a couple of years ago & had the same reaction to the Canada High School studies requirement ;).

(NB, do read the "small print"!).

Just for shits & giggles: France considers my children as FMT, but would require them to undergo language testing if they wish to pursue education in France; Canada (Qc) considers them officially Anglophone despite almost all their education being in French. The UK is not really that bothered, and tends to go for "it depends"....

Re: Proving I'm English for University
 

Yes.

Re: Proving I'm English for University
 

I'll just do the Toefl, really. Much simpler and opens up prestigious universities. I should really be worried about those 15/20's...

Thanks for all the help and advice everyone!

Re: Proving I'm English for University
 

What exactly do you mean by, & why are you so concerned about "prestigious" universities??

Re: Proving I'm English for University
 

I'm doing a Bac S SVT, but that's just one of the Bac options and doesn't hold any real worth except interest in the subject and some fill-up points. There are three options for a Bac S: Maths, some sort of Technology and SvT. The one you choose makes the coefficient of that subject more important when sitting the Bac. From memory, it would go something like Maths being coefficient 9 rather than 7 if that's your option.

But my plan has always been to study chemistry after the Bac. The SvT option is the most relevant to Science out of the three.

Re: Proving I'm English for University
 

I'm not concerned about them, but I'd like a degree from a good university. By prestigious I mean just that, the highest and hardest to get into/most selective.

Re: Proving I'm English for University
 

DD1 did a Bac S SVT and hardly did any Chemistry as such. Certainly not enough to be equivalent to A-Level chemistry, but then she wanted to do a degree in SVT....

Re: Proving I'm English for University
 

There's no Chemistry Bac, so it's the only science related one.

And curriculums differ wildly in any case.

Re: Proving I'm English for University
 

What I'm wondering is that, as there are no "Chemistry" lessons in French Collèges and Lycées (something which has always surprised me), is it possible to be accepted into a British Uni to study "Chemistry" without this knowledge? I've never gone into the question of how to get into an Ecole de Chimie or the like in France, but suppose that there are special Lycées and Prépas.
P.S. Maybe you're lucky enough to be in a Lycée equipped with a decent Lab and an enthusiastic chemistry teacher? DD1 had neither and the emphasis was on Physics. Off topic, but it's always surprised me, like Chemistry with Physics, that Geography isn't considered worthy of it's own Bac. Always lumped together with History, as a poor relation....

Re: Proving I'm English for University
 

Being accepted might be less of a problem than "could they keep up with the chemistry course at a British university"?

Re: Proving I'm English for University
 

Of course a person could. Chemistry doesn't change from language to language, and in any case people from any country need to write their scientific papers and theses in English.

Re: Proving I'm English for University
 

GCSEs and A levels are taught on a specific subject. Which, with a good pass mark, has that person ready for the first year of university to study that same subject.

If they have come form a country that hasn't do that and they haven't been taught to that level, they will struggle at a British university.

Re: Proving I'm English for University
 

I doubt it.

Re: Proving I'm English for University
 

Also, A-Levels are on different subjects, not just one, so I fail to see your point...

Re: Proving I'm English for University
 

York is a university with which I have a passing degree of familiarity. It has two campuses, one of which teaches in the English language while the other (Glendon) teaches in French.

Hence the choice of proficiency in either official language of Canada.

Re: Proving I'm English for University
 

My wife made a very good living when we lived in Germany editing and correcting mediocre English in scientific papers written by German scientists. Mostly chemistry.

Of course, not being a chemist herself, she sometimes asked my advice.

Re: Proving I'm English for University
 

Well, at least buy "Annales du Bac" to see the level of Physique-Chimie for French Bacheliers, and compare with old A-level Chemistry exam. papers or the Syllabus for 1st Year Chemistry in a British Uni. You'll find out for sure whether the levels are the same.
You've never said how long you've been in France, but I presume your written French is good and that you're working for a decent average in all subjects which, with your excellent mark in English, should give you a Mention. As an anecdote, DD2 was faced with an American text in her English Bac, based in the Deep South at that. Everyone complained at the difficulty - even I didn't understand it all - but the marks weren't readjusted and every one's final average was brought down....:(

Re: Proving I'm English for University
 

From my daughter's school in Toulouse, chemistry proved to be tricky for a long time, most of the universities required that you took the "A" level if it was a required subject and you were doing a BacS. Then one of their students fought it and was accepted into medicine without having to do the "A" level chemistry and after that, the universities were much better about it.

The grades aren't set in stone. If they like the look of you, you will get a lower offer. We have quite a few examples of that. One guy was a rower and got accepted into a competitive course at Cambridge with 14/20. Another was Kings College I think for architecture with a 12/20. Your personal essay will be the key. If you can find a college counsellor to help you (private and will cost) that would be good. Otherwise, think about approaching an international lycee and appealing for help with the the essay.