Go Back  British Expats > Living & Moving Abroad > Moving back or to the UK
Reload this Page >

Planning to move back to the UK from the US

Planning to move back to the UK from the US

Old Sep 21st 2016, 4:46 pm
  #1  
Just Joined
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 8
bdlhome is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Planning to move back to the UK from the US

Planning to move back to the UK from the US

Any suggestions on where to get financial advice from? I've read a number of threads and found some very useful information, but I also know that every case is a little different.

Some background that from reading other threads is probably needed:
  • My wife and I are both UK citizens in the US on green cards
  • Our daughter was born here in the US, but has both UK and US passports/citizenship
  • I've lived and worked in the US for coming up on 16 years.
  • Have paid into 401K
  • Transferred to US working for same company as UK and entitled to US company pension
  • I will be 49 this year
  • Own a house in the US
  • No house in the UK but kept UK bank account
bdlhome is offline  
Old Sep 21st 2016, 11:34 pm
  #2  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Jul 2003
Location: Finally moving!
Posts: 1,236
holly_1948 has a reputation beyond reputeholly_1948 has a reputation beyond reputeholly_1948 has a reputation beyond reputeholly_1948 has a reputation beyond reputeholly_1948 has a reputation beyond reputeholly_1948 has a reputation beyond reputeholly_1948 has a reputation beyond reputeholly_1948 has a reputation beyond reputeholly_1948 has a reputation beyond reputeholly_1948 has a reputation beyond reputeholly_1948 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Planning to move back to the UK from the US

Well, I would say age 49 is the most important criterion. So it makes sense to find the best employment you can find and be willing to let that dictate where you live. If the job is in (Greater) London you need a lot more money than a job far from London to make it worthwhile.

And since your daughter is (?) apparently under 16 years of age then be aware that if you move to Scotland then her University education is likely to be State paid. Otherwise it likely won't be.
holly_1948 is offline  
Old Sep 22nd 2016, 12:59 am
  #3  
Just Joined
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 8
bdlhome is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Planning to move back to the UK from the US

Originally Posted by holly_1948 View Post
Well, I would say age 49 is the most important criterion. So it makes sense to find the best employment you can find and be willing to let that dictate where you live. If the job is in (Greater) London you need a lot more money than a job far from London to make it worthwhile.

And since your daughter is (?) apparently under 16 years of age then be aware that if you move to Scotland then her University education is likely to be State paid. Otherwise it likely won't be.
To add some more details, location is likely to be based on wife's family and I will probably be self-employed and can really work anywhere.

You are correct, our daughter is under 16, I understand we will be paying for her university education. Although it will probably be less expensive than here in the US.
bdlhome is offline  
Old Sep 22nd 2016, 1:12 am
  #4  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: May 2010
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 7,775
SanDiegogirl has a reputation beyond reputeSanDiegogirl has a reputation beyond reputeSanDiegogirl has a reputation beyond reputeSanDiegogirl has a reputation beyond reputeSanDiegogirl has a reputation beyond reputeSanDiegogirl has a reputation beyond reputeSanDiegogirl has a reputation beyond reputeSanDiegogirl has a reputation beyond reputeSanDiegogirl has a reputation beyond reputeSanDiegogirl has a reputation beyond reputeSanDiegogirl has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Planning to move back to the UK from the US

What financial advice are you actually looking for?

How to transfer money from your US accounts, transfer money from sale of your US home?
SanDiegogirl is offline  
Old Sep 22nd 2016, 2:17 am
  #5  
Just Joined
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 8
bdlhome is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Planning to move back to the UK from the US

Originally Posted by SanDiegogirl View Post
What financial advice are you actually looking for?

How to transfer money from your US accounts, transfer money from sale of your US home?
My main questions are related to tax implications and when to do certain things. As an example I believe that even if I give up my greencard (which I would have to) I can still leave 401K etc in the US and start withdrawing when I reach the age I can without penalties. I also understand that I would be entitled to SS having paid over 10 years(40 quarters), but wonder how that works once I give up residency/greencard. I also read somewhere that when I sell the US home and when I move back may also have implications.
bdlhome is offline  
Old Sep 23rd 2016, 4:21 pm
  #6  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Apr 2011
Location: The Shire
Posts: 1,102
theOAP has a reputation beyond reputetheOAP has a reputation beyond reputetheOAP has a reputation beyond reputetheOAP has a reputation beyond reputetheOAP has a reputation beyond reputetheOAP has a reputation beyond reputetheOAP has a reputation beyond reputetheOAP has a reputation beyond reputetheOAP has a reputation beyond reputetheOAP has a reputation beyond reputetheOAP has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Planning to move back to the UK from the US

I can only speak of the situations as they are today. When you reach retirement age things may have changed, so attempt to stay informed as time goes by.

Originally Posted by bdlhome View Post
My main questions are related to tax implications and when to do certain things. As an example I believe that even if I give up my greencard (which I would have to) I can still leave 401K etc in the US and start withdrawing when I reach the age I can without penalties.
You're correct, you can do that from the UK even though a non-resident alien.

Be aware that currently some folks are finding the 'company' paying the benefit may want to withhold 30% from all payments, including periodic payments. If they do, then a 1040NR has to be filed yearly with the IRS to reclaim the amount.

You may find the following two threads from UK Yankee of interest:

Tax on 401k lump sum distribution for UK citizen/resident?

W8-BEN Form and US Tax

Originally Posted by bdlhome View Post
I also understand that I would be entitled to SS having paid over 10 years(40 quarters), but wonder how that works once I give up residency/greencard.
SS is not a problem. When the time comes simply contact SSA ( in Baltimore or at the FBU - Federal Benefits Unit at the London Embassy). You'll be paid monthly at very good exchange rates. Not a problem being an NRA, but since you'll likely be earning income from non-SS contributing sources in the UK, be aware of the implications of WEP.

On a different subject, when you give up the greencard, also be aware of the implications of having been a Long Term Permanent Resident in the States (8 out of the last 15 years). Technically, you are required to file a form 8854. Failure to file 8854 (according to the IRS) means you are still subject to yearly US tax reporting as if you are still a 'US Person'. Filing 8854 will correctly exit you from the US/IRS system and you will no longer be a US Person. Some do file, some don't.

Currently, it can be uncomfortable being a 'US Person for tax reasons' living abroad, and it may get worse. No one knows. As an NRA/UK only Citizen, doing any financial transactions in the UK will be no problem, as long as there is no indication that you are a US Person. If it's discovered you are a US Person for tax reasons, things become more complicated as to opening various types of accounts, including any new bank accounts. Be aware of what constitutes 'US Indicia', and how banks, building societies, and brokerage firms may react. Monthly US retirement payments to a UK bank account may trigger US Indicia. How you handle this (and 8854) is your decision.

Your daughter will, in time, need to be aware of the consequences of being a US citizen regards tax reporting. She will have no choice as long as she remains a US citizen.

Originally Posted by bdlhome View Post
I also read somewhere that when I sell the US home and when I move back may also have implications.
IMHO, there should be no abnormal consequences in either the US or UK as long as the property meets the criteria for being your primary residence for the required time. Obviously, renting the property out to someone else after you leave (beyond current accepted periods by both HMRC and the IRS) could create some capital gains reporting.
theOAP is offline  
Old Sep 24th 2016, 2:18 am
  #7  
Just Joined
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 8
bdlhome is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Planning to move back to the UK from the US

@theOAP many thanks for the details response, certainly a few things to consider.
bdlhome is offline  
Old Sep 26th 2016, 8:54 pm
  #8  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: bute
Posts: 9,464
scot47 has a reputation beyond reputescot47 has a reputation beyond reputescot47 has a reputation beyond reputescot47 has a reputation beyond reputescot47 has a reputation beyond reputescot47 has a reputation beyond reputescot47 has a reputation beyond reputescot47 has a reputation beyond reputescot47 has a reputation beyond reputescot47 has a reputation beyond reputescot47 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Planning to move back to the UK from the US

A student has to be resident in Scotland for at least three years before commencement of course before the free tuition kicks in.
scot47 is offline  
Old Aug 3rd 2017, 3:58 pm
  #9  
Just Joined
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 8
bdlhome is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Planning to move back to the UK from the US

Just to update my own thread:

We have decided to move back to the UK next year between June and September (while schools are out).

Finding out a few things as we continue to plan:

As @theOAP stated the 8854/Expatriation is not a fun subject. Having to get current values of company pensions etc to prove/show I shouldn't be a "covered expatriate"

Finding that leaving my 401K with Fidelity is going to be a problem because of their rules on non-residents. The plan is to roll to IRA with Charles Schwab who appear to be much easier to work with as a future non-resident.
bdlhome is offline  
Old Aug 3rd 2017, 6:06 pm
  #10  
Just Joined
 
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 21
Ukoneday is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Planning to move back to the UK from the US

Originally Posted by bdlhome View Post
My main questions are related to tax implications and when to do certain things. As an example I believe that even if I give up my greencard (which I would have to) I can still leave 401K etc in the US and start withdrawing when I reach the age I can without penalties. I also understand that I would be entitled to SS having paid over 10 years(40 quarters), but wonder how that works once I give up residency/greencard. I also read somewhere that when I sell the US home and when I move back may also have implications.
I am in a similar situation, but am a dual citizen with a US citizen husband that has never lived in the UK. I hope you get some answers because we are having a nightmare finding out what our tax liability would be. I do know that if you give up your green card (you can go to the embassy in London and hand it in) you don't have to submit a tax return in the US if you pull all your assets out and move them.
Ukoneday is offline  
Old Aug 3rd 2017, 8:00 pm
  #11  
MODERATOR
 
penguinsix's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: Hong Kong, mostly.
Posts: 5,158
penguinsix has a reputation beyond reputepenguinsix has a reputation beyond reputepenguinsix has a reputation beyond reputepenguinsix has a reputation beyond reputepenguinsix has a reputation beyond reputepenguinsix has a reputation beyond reputepenguinsix has a reputation beyond reputepenguinsix has a reputation beyond reputepenguinsix has a reputation beyond reputepenguinsix has a reputation beyond reputepenguinsix has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Planning to move back to the UK from the US

If you hold your green card and hold your property, some states consider you 'resident' or 'temporarily non-resident' such that they expect you to continue to pay state income taxes. The mentality is "one day, you'll return to your home in our state--you need to pay for the police and fire departments, etc that protected it while you are away".

Seriously.

The issue depends a great deal on your state laws and court history, along with your status of course, but it's something you should investigate as you consider the move.

Also note your children will have US income tax and financial disclosure (FBAR) requirements annually. They must 'file' a US tax form to take advantage of the overseas tax exclusions (that will essentially mean they pay no taxes). Mainly a paperwork exercise annually.
penguinsix is offline  
Old Aug 3rd 2017, 8:53 pm
  #12  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Apr 2011
Location: The Shire
Posts: 1,102
theOAP has a reputation beyond reputetheOAP has a reputation beyond reputetheOAP has a reputation beyond reputetheOAP has a reputation beyond reputetheOAP has a reputation beyond reputetheOAP has a reputation beyond reputetheOAP has a reputation beyond reputetheOAP has a reputation beyond reputetheOAP has a reputation beyond reputetheOAP has a reputation beyond reputetheOAP has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Planning to move back to the UK from the US

Originally Posted by Ukoneday View Post
I do know that if you give up your green card (you can go to the embassy in London and hand it in) you don't have to submit a tax return in the US......
Concerning the IRS, that may be true, in certain instances, if you are not a long-term permanent resident, although a return for the last partial year would in most cases be required, but nothing thereafter.

Form 8854 is for LPR's.

"Expatriation tax provisions apply to U.S. citizens who have relinquished their citizenship and long-term residents who have ended their residency (expatriated)."


https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i8854.pdf

Last edited by theOAP; Aug 3rd 2017 at 9:00 pm.
theOAP is offline  
Old Aug 3rd 2017, 9:29 pm
  #13  
Just Joined
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 8
bdlhome is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Planning to move back to the UK from the US

Originally Posted by theOAP View Post
Concerning the IRS, that may be true, in certain instances, if you are not a long-term permanent resident, although a return for the last partial year would in most cases be required, but nothing thereafter.

Form 8854 is for LPR's.

"Expatriation tax provisions apply to U.S. citizens who have relinquished their citizenship and long-term residents who have ended their residency (expatriated)."


https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i8854.pdf
Yep and I'm a LPR based on green card and number of years I've spent in the US
bdlhome is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.