julius smith

aherm, aherm.....by now most of you on this forum know me and my foibles, and the latest one was that i have decided to go back to canada to give it another go. well, yes, you guessed it, another spanner in the works! in a nutshell, one of my kids doesnt want to go back now--he says he's happy in the uk (whats changed his mind is that his grandparents have virtually brainwashed him in staying with them, and he is very easily led. the other thing is that he's afraid of the education standards in canada, as he's been through it before, and is afraid he may not be able to cope--he's at GCSE levels here at the mo.) whereas the other one says he wants to go back. me and the mrs want to go back too. its a deep deep dilemma--if we leave him here with his g/parents and the rest of us go back, he will lose out on our guidance, love etc--if we forcibly take him with us, he will not do well there and will most probably create chaos over there (he has a point though--his education here will cost around 1500GBP per year for 5 yrs; in canada it will be $19 000 per year for 8yrs) --and if we dont go, either with him or without, we all lose our immigration status and all the money we spent getting it, not to mention the chance of getting out of the uk (lets face it, we are not spring chickens; we in our late 40s). if i wait till the kids finish their education (which they have decided is to be medicine), i will be around 55 or 56, which doesnt bode well for resettling in another land, at that age. so, thats the reason i am posting this as a poll too. please feel free to post your views on here even if you dont wanto to vote in the poll--we need to get some sensible views on here as this is looking to be a make-or-break situation now.

Tayberry

I think you should put it to a family vote!! Your son is bound to be outnumbered therefore, you "win" (although I appreciate it's hardly a competition!) with the democratic majority vote. I know I don't know you, but I reckon you would be out of your mind with worry and general upset at leaving your son in the UK.

You know, I keep typing something here then erasing it!! God, there isn't an easy answer to this at all, is there? No wonder you sumitted a poll!!

Sorry, been no help to you whatsoever. Good luck with your eventual choice though!
Kind regards.

acer rose

Tough call to make, and ultimately only you and your family can make it as you will be the ones who have to live with it.

Personally, I think people underestimate the strength of feeling "children" have. At 14/15/16 people are being encouraged to make their own decisions (GCSE options for example) but can be easily overruled by the system/school/parents. Hardly surprising so many young people have no faith in voting etc (but I digress). However, other people are also going to be affected by the decision, including another child. Should the desire of one person take precedence over the others, or is there a compromise that can work?

Do you trust that the grandparents will provide a suitable environment for your child? Are they going to manipulate a young mind or provide loving guidance? Did you/your spouse turn out OK without major traumas? Why not agree for your son to spend term-time with the grandparents and vacation time with the rest of the family in Canada? This experiment might give your son enough time to assess his priorities, gain a bit of independence, learn to think for himself.

There are some amazing young people out there who have far more responsibility thrust upon them at a younger age. I guess only you know your son, how mature he is, whether he could cope with "divided loyalties", and also the rest of the family (grandparents).

Good luck with your decision.

Englishmum

Our daughter took her IGCSE's at an International school in Singapore and we were posted to the US. She decided that she didn't want to go to the local High school....she had an American boyfriend who attended Singapore American School and she knew that the work she had been doing was ahead of the US curriculum....she couldn't see the point of 'going back' over old ground - not to mention she had dropped certain subjects at 14 for her GCSE courses.

At the age of 16 she went to a girls boarding school in Oxford to go into the Sixth Form for "A" Levels. The first few weeks were a bit difficult for her, but she settled down. Going to live with her grandmother in Coventry wasn't really an option as there wasn't a suitable school she could go to...but Oxford was ideal for public transport options and she became very independent.

Our daughter has never fancied living in the States....she took a Gap Year after 'A' levels and did a lot of travelling and is now at university in London...she much prefers London compared to New York city. She will be 21 next month and too old to now decide to live in the States even if she did change her mind....however, once she qualifies (she's on a health related degree course) it will give her the option to live and work overseas if she so chooses....I can see her going to live and work Down Under to be honest.

Don't force your son to go with you....it will cause a great strain on your relationship for good, methinks.

Tom Masters

I would try to find out a bit more about why he doesn't want to go first. What kind of things have the grandparents said to him? Can you talk to them about it if they have such a big influence on him? Is it really the education standards in Canada that he is worried about or is there more to it than that? If he plans on going into medicine, high standards of education will be an issue no matter which country he wants to live in.

Could it be the stress of having to move again now that he is back in safe territory? Is he concerned that you may change your mind again and going back to Canada will make him feel insecure? Can you give him reassurance about this?

Sorry I'm not being much help!! It is a tough situation to be in. It would be a shame to leave him behind if the real reason behind his decision is fear. However, if he is adamant that he doesn't want to go to Canada because he really didn't like it at all when he was there, and he is 100% sure he wants to stay behind in the UK, then I would give that option serious consideration.

Chris

iaink

Where are you getting those numbers????

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...92#post2320392

Julius, you are just driving me nuts. Make a decision and stick with it. Kids are kids, listen to them by all means but dont let them dictate. I moved around a bit as a kid, and although I never wanted to leave friends etc behind, I always adapted and it was fine (I was 16 the last time before Uni!). You have to do whats best for you and your wife. Happy kids usually seem to be the result of happy parents. Only you know your kid well enough to know how he will react if either you go and drag him with you, or go and leave him with his grandparent...staying with GPs permanently is probably rather different then visiting for cake and ice cream every now and then.

Do your homework this time into educational standards and schools, Some schools are very gung ho about being ahead of the curriculum, pick a school that your kids will be comfortable at, and makes sure the bus will pick them up this time!

ladyofthelake

Could be he's also afraid of yo-yoing backwards and forwards across the Atlantic again? I'm all for letting the adults make the decisions and the kids living with it, but on this occasion, you've already done that to him twice and now expect him to tag along for a third time. I can understand his worries. Can he really be sure you've made up your mind this time? Will things work out OK over there?
If he is absolutely adamant he doesn't want to go, you should really consider letting him stay.
I still think you may all be happier in another part of the country, but that's just me. It's a tough choice, with no easy outcome, but I'm voting to wait until their education is finished.

PS. shouldn't categories 2 and 4 be added together as they're pratically saying the same thing?

iaink

Except one involves emigrating again eventually, and the other doesnt.

callé

Fraid I agree with this one Julius! Since you have already made a really big move, maybe just maybe a different area there would change things. Quite a few posters have said your not in a good area. then maybe you could settle and be happy enough at least for now to have a really good look at the whole picture. And if you still see returning to Canada after the kids' education you should still be able to manage if you plan well. I really wish you well on this. you have to be the shortest ping pong mindframe yet! lol.
calle

Lizzi

Hey Julius. I can guess how difficult this is for you and you have my sympathy. I think that maybe the whole thing boils down to the fact that really all of you have had so much trouble making up your minds definitively about the UK/Canada thing and the whole indecisiveness thing has finally got to your son and he's found abit of stability as it were via his grandparents. Now this is an expensive option, but could you not all decamp to Canada for the summer, look at schools, see where you're going to be living, meet up with friends etc, and take a long, hard look at what it is you want out of life.

We have been in the shall we/shan't we return to the UK thing for some time now, it's not easy. I was so surprised by Merlot's really wanting to return to the UK and then subsequent desire to go back to Australia, that it made me think about this greener grass thing big time. Then you have had a ping pong time of it, and Simon's family also did abit of yo-yoing if I recall. Anyway, as a result, I am taking the kids home for the summer, they will be spending some time in the local school and we will be renting a house back in Suffolk, not galivanting around the country doing the relly visiting thing. I hope at the end of it, we can give the thumbs up to the UK or the USA.

If however you can't go back to Canada, why don't you look at the school system over there and see if there isn't some better options for your son, other schools he can go to, maybe a private school, again I know, an expensive option.

Everyone is different, but personally I couldn't leave behind any of my kids.

Chin up Julius, best of luck to you I hope you can sort this out.

iaink

Problem with waiting is that PR will expire in less than 3 years, not having maintained the necessary minimum 2 out of five years residency, and that would mean reapplying again later on, at which point the points requirement in all lightlyhood will have increased, and your loss of a PR already granted will complicate things no end. Not to mention age perhaps becoming a factor.

If your wife and yourself think that maybe canada wasnt as bad as it seemed, or the UK is worse than you remembered, now is the time to return to Canada. Time to "Shit or get off the pot" as the locals so colourfully would say.

ladylisa

I voted that you should return to Canada and leave your son with his grandparents which I think is a good option. however I think a better option is for you is to move to another area of the Uk that you would find better than where you currently are. You are as indecisive as I have become, I never was before emmigrating, thats the bit I hate most. Can you be sure you wont get back to Canada and then wish you were back in the UK with your whole family?

heading downunder 2002

I also agree with ladyofthelake, I think that you made the choice to go and then come back and to up root him again when he doesn't really want to would be unfair. Just because our dreams were to migrate does not necessarily mean that it is our childrens and they tend to go along with what we decide, this time he has said he doesn't want to go back to Canada and I think you should respect his decision. You say that he wants to be a doctor, well to keep mucking his education about may just finish this dream. It is not an easy profession to get into and you need top marks to get accepted and I feel that you need to give him the best opportunity of achieving these top marks. And finally as I couldn't personally leave any child behind in another country I too am voting to wait until their education is finished. I know it probably ruins your chances of applying again, but my child would come first, always, I have had my chances now its her turn.


Susan

stepnek

Julius, your situation is one that is understandable and I sympathise but maybe you should look back at your posts when you were so keen to get back to the UK. There was quite a discussion at the time but your mind was really made up and maybe it's not wise to try again. The advice given by others here to try somewhere else in the UK seems pretty sound to me. Of course it's easy for me to say that because I'm still here but I have to say I'm not yet happy. Can you be sure that your next attempt will be any more successfull especially as you might not arrive here as a complete family the next time around?

I've voted that you should stay put now because with the benefit of hindsight I don't believe I would have moved over here. It's only because we are here now that I'm going to give it a good go before I contemplate a return.

I wish you well with your decision.

SANDRAPAUL

Don't do anything you are talked into on here. Do what you want to do - you might be listening to peoples own perspectives on your personal situation through their eyes. If you don't it will be yet another heartache moment to come. As Mr Ianik says. Make your mind up and stick to it. Mr Glaswegian would be in the Uk now if someone had offered return tickets in Nov 04. I wonder if he would accept them now.

Stop pissing about with figures on education.

1. You may have no income in the UK in the near future so why are you second guessing.
2. You may have no income in Canada - so why are you second guessing.

3. You have no idea if your children will not drop out and never speak to you again.

4. You have no idea of WHAT IS TO COME

Do what you and your wife NEED TO DO. That is important.

P

Stop turning your life into a Poll. This is reality - not an election for UK prime minister.

But good luck.