NHS/pension issues; keeping UK residency vs letting out only UK home
#16
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Location: Tunbridge Wells KENT
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Re: NHS/pension issues; keeping UK residency vs letting out only UK home
A person can be ordinarily resident in two (or, exceptionally, even more) countries at the same time.
"Nobody" is overreaching, a person might want to enjoy the benefits (such as they are) of ordinary residence in the UK especially if they have little income arising outside Britain. This has applied, for example, to people who spend a large majority of their time working as missionaries in the Third World and living a life of intentional poverty. Absent from Britain for 40+ weeks out of 52 but regularly reporting to their church renders them still ordinarily resident there. It key key that the brief presences in Britain are regular and with a purpose of residence.
Perhaps those who wrongly thought one could have only a single ordinary residence at a time were confusing it with domicile or habitual residence.
See Shah v Barnet Borough Council [1983] 1 All ER 226.
"Nobody" is overreaching, a person might want to enjoy the benefits (such as they are) of ordinary residence in the UK especially if they have little income arising outside Britain. This has applied, for example, to people who spend a large majority of their time working as missionaries in the Third World and living a life of intentional poverty. Absent from Britain for 40+ weeks out of 52 but regularly reporting to their church renders them still ordinarily resident there. It key key that the brief presences in Britain are regular and with a purpose of residence.
Perhaps those who wrongly thought one could have only a single ordinary residence at a time were confusing it with domicile or habitual residence.
See Shah v Barnet Borough Council [1983] 1 All ER 226.
*requirement is nine months in the year or basically permanent residence
#17
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3
Re: NHS/pension issues; keeping UK residency vs letting out only UK home
Thanks so much to Sue for helping me post in the right place. You do a great job!
Thanks also for all the comments and advice from all of you. I didn't expect to get so many replies so quickly!
It's certainly got me thinking. It might just be better to cut our losses (i.e. forsake my parents' NHS treatment rights and pensions), move to Thailand and live off the rent from the house.
Just to clarify that I love Britain and the NHS and would never think of scrounging. After our deaths we intend to leave the house to the hospital. I don't expect anything for myself because I've only worked a short time there so haven't paid much tax or NI. The concern was about my parents because decent medical treatment here for serious operations is very expensive.
We all know this, but it's very unfair that native British people (most of which you probably are), who've paid tax and NI all their lives are shut out as soon as they move abroad, while new immigrants (our area is full of them) get everything.
My friends at work are all classified non-resident in the UK. They don't make voluntary NI contributions either, which renders them ineligible for a pension / NHS treatment. One went to study his PhD back in the UK and had to pay non-EU fees despite 20 years of NI contributions.
Thanks also for all the comments and advice from all of you. I didn't expect to get so many replies so quickly!
It's certainly got me thinking. It might just be better to cut our losses (i.e. forsake my parents' NHS treatment rights and pensions), move to Thailand and live off the rent from the house.
Just to clarify that I love Britain and the NHS and would never think of scrounging. After our deaths we intend to leave the house to the hospital. I don't expect anything for myself because I've only worked a short time there so haven't paid much tax or NI. The concern was about my parents because decent medical treatment here for serious operations is very expensive.
We all know this, but it's very unfair that native British people (most of which you probably are), who've paid tax and NI all their lives are shut out as soon as they move abroad, while new immigrants (our area is full of them) get everything.
My friends at work are all classified non-resident in the UK. They don't make voluntary NI contributions either, which renders them ineligible for a pension / NHS treatment. One went to study his PhD back in the UK and had to pay non-EU fees despite 20 years of NI contributions.
#18
Re: NHS/pension issues; keeping UK residency vs letting out only UK home
My friends at work are all classified non-resident in the UK. They don't make voluntary NI contributions either, which renders them ineligible for a pension / NHS treatment. One went to study his PhD back in the UK and had to pay non-EU fees despite 20 years of NI contributions.
#19
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Joined: Jan 2011
Location: Tunbridge Wells KENT
Posts: 2,914
Re: NHS/pension issues; keeping UK residency vs letting out only UK home
Surely this is throwing the baby out with the bath-water. Nobody wants to be ordinarily resident for UK tax purposes unless they absolutely have to be and being deemed ordinarily resident in order to get indexation for one's state pension and NHS doctor's surgery access seems a serious conflict. If you are ordinarily resident but not domiciled then you will be UK taxed on your world income unless you elect to be taxed on a remittance basis and you can only do this for so long before you have to pay a substantial fee for the right. You also lose all of the personal allowances and this could be costly if you have any Uk source income, such as property income.
There is an alternative short-term measure which could be considered if your finances can cover you. Take a Uk* sabbatical for several years coming up to UK state pension age and defer your pension if you can afford to live off other income or capital when in the UK. You will receive a 1% uptick on the state pension, for every five weeks that you defer. You also of course get regular indexation. You must be resident in order to get this deferral and it is of course most beneficial for those that end up leading a long healthy life post pensionable age. It is possible that you have other pensions under other country bilateral agreements and these will also get the indexation during this UK sojourn. You will also of course only be losing the net UK pension after tax and if you then post-deferral leave the UK you will not then suffer tax on the up-ticked pension. Some healthcare insurance coverages expire at age 65 so the access to the NHS at this time could be useful. Just a thought for those actuarially inclined.
*So long as you satisfy the Uk authorities that you are resident in the Uk at this time you can also spend time in the EEA to count towards this period of residency
There is an alternative short-term measure which could be considered if your finances can cover you. Take a Uk* sabbatical for several years coming up to UK state pension age and defer your pension if you can afford to live off other income or capital when in the UK. You will receive a 1% uptick on the state pension, for every five weeks that you defer. You also of course get regular indexation. You must be resident in order to get this deferral and it is of course most beneficial for those that end up leading a long healthy life post pensionable age. It is possible that you have other pensions under other country bilateral agreements and these will also get the indexation during this UK sojourn. You will also of course only be losing the net UK pension after tax and if you then post-deferral leave the UK you will not then suffer tax on the up-ticked pension. Some healthcare insurance coverages expire at age 65 so the access to the NHS at this time could be useful. Just a thought for those actuarially inclined.
*So long as you satisfy the Uk authorities that you are resident in the Uk at this time you can also spend time in the EEA to count towards this period of residency
https://www.gov.uk/deferring-state-p...at-you-may-get
such that so long as you have not claimed your State Pension you can defer it whether resident or not. The Pension Advisory Service have in turn gone to the Dept of Work & Pensions for clarification regarding this and can confirm it.
"This may seem a strange approach but the DWP Pension Service has confirmed that those not normally entitled to annual increases will receive them if their pension is in deferment for the period of that deferment."
Last edited by Pistolpete2; Dec 6th 2012 at 12:46 pm. Reason: This may seem a strange approach.....