Helen1964

https://www.thesun.co.uk/health/2447...emergency/amp/

Re ambulance services, this is from The Sun (which would not be my first choice of newspaper) but the data is from the NHS, apparently.

C.2s

With regard to ambulances the question about whether the service is better in wealthier areas is an interesting one. I certainly wouldn't have thought to consider that as part of choosing where to live in the UK. I wonder if the question arose for the person who asked the question but didn't arise for me is because there are very different ambulance service structures in different countries, and therefore different expectations? I've seen that the system in Italy (where I live is very different) and also in Denmark (where I visited a museum of a sort of charity/business that provides emergency response services). And maybe in some countries (the USA?) there's more private ambulance services? And maybe therefore there's a direct causal link between wealth of area and quality of service in those countries? In the UK there's a state funded ambulance service. So the funding isn't directly connected to the wealth of the area. What's more, its organised into relatively large areas...there are 14 ambulance trusts for the whole of the UK as opposed to over 200 hospital trusts. So therefore it's much more difficult to talk about "the postcode lottery" when talking about ambulance services. You can't easily drill down into the stats enough to say whether the service is better or worse in wealthier areas. If anything people normally argue that response times are more dependent on urban vs rural location. In that case there might be very wealthy parts of any city that have exactly the same response times as poorer parts of the same city, and the same is true of rural areas (wealth doesn't appear to be an important factor).

Helen1964

I absolutely agree C2s.

Affluence doesn’t seem to be a factor where ambulance services are concerned.

Helen1964

So we've looked at ambulance responses and access to GPs.

As regards treatments, Christmasoompa has already provided this excellent link - https://www.myplannedcare.nhs.uk
From this you will see that once again, the picture is very nuanced. A hospital could have excellent treatment times for cardiology, but long waits for,say, hip replacements.
To work out whether there's any correlation between affluence and treatment times overall, you'd have to check every single speciality for each hospital and note whether that hospital was in a wealthy area or not.

As for dentists, I don't think affluence will matter much here. NHS dentists are as rare as hens' teeth pretty much everywhere, aren't they?

Perhaps you need to approach this differently. Do you already have a few possible locations in mind? Which appeal becuase of other factors (low crime, general look and feel of the place, number of activities on offer in the area, chattiness of the locals, weather, tc.)?
Perhaps draw up a shortlist and then try to see how each potential location scores on ambulance response times, access to GPs and specific treatments?

Where are you thinking of moving to?

Cape Blue

I had cancer whilst living in the US, part of the post operative treatment plan was an annual ultrasound to check it was all removed and no lymph gland issues etc - this was once a year for five years with a pretty simple and basic ultrasound.

Year 4 I move to the UK - I had to argue very strongly for the yr 4 and yr 5 ultrasound - the NHS didn’t think it necessary.

For something so cheap and basic as an ultrasound, it shocked me that the NHS would add risk, albeit a pretty small risk, to my life.

Since then my non-cancer (but operation-related) GP experience has been dire. The NHS is currently like a really really poor HMO. Except my NHS tax is 2-3x what I paid for a good quality PPO in the US.

C.2s

Firstly, it's disappointing that your experience of the NHS wasn't what you expected.

But "NHS tax"? There's no such thing. There's National Insurance (NI) which pays for various things, including pensions.Buying private health care instead doesn't exempt anyone from paying NI. It is based on income unlike private health insurance which depends on the risk of the individual covered. Therefore the rich pay more. But it also needs to be considered as part of the overall tax bill, and therefore anyone moving to the UK needs to consider the total taxes, not just NI. n terms of effectiveness it would have to be assessed based on the whole country (again unlike private health insurance). Therefore any direct comparison between the cost of private insurance schemes in the USA and NI in the UK is a bit spurious. Having read some of your other posts on the subject of the NHS in other forums, it's quite clear that you are quite well informed about this subject, and therefore I'd be very surprised if you didn't already know all this.
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Lynn R

I had cancer in Spain in 2019, very early stage and a less aggressive type, no treatment other than surgery needed. My GP made an urgent referral and I was seeing a specialist at the hospital 3 days later. For the first 3 years post-op I had checkups every six months, with an ultrasound done at every one plus a smear test, plus a CA125 blood test at the end of 3 years. These all took place on schedule throughout the pandemic. After that I am getting a further 2 annual checkups, going for the 4 year one next week when the same tests willl be done. This is in a free at the point of use public health system in a country which spends less per capita than the UK does, with no co-payments to see a doctor, visit A&E or for hospital treatment.

How do you know how much your "NHS tax" amounts to when healthcare costs are paid out of general taxation not hypotheticated?

Cape Blue

The NHS is primarily funded from tax rather than NI. There are online calculators where you can see how much of your annual tax bill goes to the NHS, it’s not difficult to assess. My tax going to the NHS was around 2.5 times what I was spending in the US for a better quality of healthcare.

Sure, there will be literally millions of people paying almost zero into the NHS and requiring me to fund their share. This ends up with me paying a lot more for a worse service.

calman014

Whatever type of Cancer you had, regular ultrasound scans of the liver (and other parts if necessary) plus X-Ray of the lungs are normal follow up procedures as if it is still in your system or hiding out in the Lymph glands someplace, Liver and Lungs are normally where it will show up.
If it is deemed 'not necessary' you need to go to another GP.

I would certainly not put any value or expect any sort of accuracy from any of the websites and apps and other nonsense that the NHS are shovelling out.
I speak from personal experience. It's like Russian Roulette...but with only one bullet missing from the chamber.

durham_lad

NI is used to fund the State Pension (OAP) and is equivalent to the FICA withholding on pay checks.

Regardless of quality of healthcare the US taxpayer pays more taxes on healthcare than the UK taxpayer. (Medicare, Medicaid, VA, tax subsidies etc).

https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/brie...nd-health-care



https://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...mn/2301040001/

https://www.health.org.uk/news-and-c...the-uk-compare

Cape Blue

It sounds like Spain has a much more efficient health system than the UK, or a generally healthier populace.

There are online calculators where you can see how much of your tax goes to the NHS.

Cape Blue

it was the cancer Dr at the hospital who didn’t want to do a year 4 and 5 scan. I argued and got it done, if they hadn’t I would have paid for a private scan.

I am on a couple of health related FB groups and it really does seem to be a postcode lottery on what treatments will be given for exactly the same issue.

C.2s

Wow, you're paying the share of literally millions of people? :-)
You must be earning megabucks!

Hats off to you for choosing to move to (or back to) the UK and doing your bit to contribute to the society in the place where you decided to live.

You describe yourself as a "Democracy Advocate" so, whilst you can carry on advocating whatever you want, I imagine you're happy to accept the system decided by a democratic decision of the majority of the people in the country you moved to that's been in place for over 70 years.

​​​​​​​We all have to accept paying for things we don't agree with, don't we? I don't support the royal family or spending such a large percentage of taxes on defence... but if/when I return to the UK I'll probably have to accept that my view is a minority one.

durham_lad

Health spending per person in the U.S. was $12,914 in 2021, which was over $5,000 more than any other high-income nation. The average amount spent on health per person in comparable countries ($6,125) is less than half of what the U.S. spends per person.


https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/...are-countries/

Cape Blue

indeed - but I can advocate for a more democratic health system where you pay for your own healthcare and are not forced to pay for others.